Grazing Grass Podcast sharing Regenerative Ag Stories

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Okay.

We will get started with the Fast five.

Our first question, what's your name?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
My name is Karl Palmberg.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: And
Karl, what's your farm's name,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Our name is Sunlight and Rain.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: which I like how
simple that name is, but works so well.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah, it's the main two ingredients we say

in our beef, so, that's what we named it.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: That's perfect.

Yeah.

Where are you located?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
We're in the northwest tip of Iowa,

just east of Sioux Falls, South Dakota,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yes.

And what livestock species do you graze

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
currently Cattle,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: cattle.

And what year did you
start grazing cattle?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
we started in 2016

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Okay, so
you're coming up on 10 years next year.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
coming up on it.

Yeah.

Cal: Welcome to the grazing grass podcast.

The podcast dedicated to sharing
the stories of grass-based

livestock producers, exploring
regenerative practices that improve

the land animals and our lives.

I'm your host, Cal Hardage and each
week we'll dive into the journeys,

challenges, and successes of
producers like you, learning from

their experiences, and inspiring
each other to grow, and graze better.

Whether you're a seasoned
grazier or just getting started.

This is the place for you.

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For 10 seconds about the podcast and
farm today, we're combining those.

Last week I was able to attend the
South Poll Field Day and cattle auction.

Really enjoyed going over to
Arkansas Perryville and seeing the

animals, seeing all the breeders
and enthusiasts, as well as other

people there to get gather knowledge.

I really enjoyed the time over there.

The Heifer Ranch facilities
over there are wonderful, and

just the Heifer Ranch personnel,
just making the time over there.

Pleasurable, making sure everyone's taken
care of and getting you what you needed.

Wonderful.

I also recorded a podcast episode
that'll be coming out very soon while

I was over there, so be able to look
out for that, but really enjoyed it.

Uh, I'm looking forward to next year.

It is in Kentucky at Nathan's.

I'm just pretty sure I probably
ought to double check that.

I just don't know.

I gotta decide if I'm
going out there or not.

I really want to, it's just a
little far, so we'll figure it out.

But it'll be coming to Kentucky next year.

If you wanna see South Poll
cows and you're not sure, reach

out to one of the breeders.

Go look at their animals or
go to a field day and see 'em.

There's some auctions coming up as well.

Um, I really enjoyed my time out there.

And with that, let's get back to Karl.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Karl,
when you were growing up, did you

think you would be running cattle?

Did you grow up on a farm?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I did grow up on a farm and I

was able to into cattle with my
dad when I was in junior high,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: Did
that until I graduated from high school.

We sold the cattle herd
then when I went to college.

And so we hadn't had cattle on our
farm from 2000 until 2016, but my dad

had cattle all while I was growing up.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yes.

How'd that work at?

In junior high.

Did your dad just allow you to
buy a couple cows to put it on

there, or did you actually go get
a loan and do something bigger?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
It's a really interesting situation

and a great blessing for me.

so that was when the conservation reserve
program, the CRP was just coming out

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
My dad was kind of overwhelmed with the

farm at that point and found that as
a way to kind of lift himself out of

that and kind of retire a little bit.

So we put a bunch

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
our crop ground into the

conservation reserve program.

Not our pasture ground,
but our crop ground.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: right.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
had, I think about 180 cow calf operation.

And he finished quite a few of those
and he, we sold all the cattle except

for the 13 best first calf heifers.

And he allowed me to buy into
just on a personal loan to him.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
half of those.

So six and a half of those.

And

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
50 partnership on that small herd

that we grew over the next few
years as I was in high school.

And got it up to about 75
by the time I graduated.

And then when I went to college he was not
interested in doing it by himself anymore.

My dad's quite a bit older than I was.

And and so we sold the cattle
herd when I went to college.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
together while I was in college.

And then when I graduated college,
we pretty much mothballed everything

and rented the land out for a number
of years while I was off in the

military until I came back from the
military and moved back here in 2012.

So I was gone from 2000 to 2012.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, very
nice that, so those cattle were able

to help offset some college expenses
for you in that stage of life?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
They were, it was an even more valuable

than that was just the experience

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
know, learning firsthand the

difference between gross and net and,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
delayed gratification and

hard work and and doing things
other than for an hourly wage.

Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: I when I was in.

High school, I was able to get a
memo loan under my dad's account at

Farm Credit and bought beef cattle.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: Hmm.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: And
we were dairying at the time.

I bought some beef cattle.

We were run them on some leased
land, and I was able to hold onto 'em

part until partway through college.

And then I needed to
sell 'em to fund that.

But it worked out really nice for that.

I was always disappointed I had to
sell 'em, but man, that really helped

me during that period of my life.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

Yeah

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: so you
decide to go into the military.

What branch did you go into?

And thank you for your service.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I went into the Air Force so my

dad had been in the military, the
Air Guard and the Air Force and the

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
for a number of years,

and so I kind of felt a.

Just a desire to fulfill
a kind of a patriotic duty

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
And so I joined Air Force

ROTC at South Dakota State.

And partway through that I was
able to get a pilot training spot.

So

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
to go to pilot training,

which my dad had done as well.

So

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, very nice.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
him do that fly in the military,

I was able to do that with that
pilot training opportunity.

Came a longer term commitment, so I
figured on going to college, getting

a degree, spending four years in the
military and then coming back to farm.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yeah,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
ended up having about a 12 year

commitment a four year commitment.

So I was gone for about 12 years.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
And then when I came back to the farm, we

transitioned to the Air National Guard.

So I farmed and still
continued military service

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
about nine years.

And in 2023 is when I,
retired from the military.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

And that worked out good.

You were able to do that while
you came back to the farm.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

Now in hindsight, it worked out well the
last five years where I was full-time

in the military and raising a growing
family of five and six kids and trying

to do cattle and other things it was
pretty untenable and not something that

I would want to necessarily do again.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: You
know, there's periods in life.

When I think back to 'em and I think
back to 'em, I think that wasn't so bad.

But I can remember being in
the middle of it thinking.

Why am I doing this?

This is, this is not going
to pay off in the end.

It's too much.

But I made it through it and I,
I look back and think, well, it

wasn't as bad as I, as I recall,
but I remember those thoughts.

So I'm sure you had some of those as well.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I still, I mean, I still have dreams

that I'm back in the military and
it's just overwhelming and, and

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
So, yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, I imagine so.

So you, you, you were able to get the
opportunity, come back home and your

parents had land or your dad had land
there that you all had rented out or

he'd rented out while you were gone.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: Yep.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: So we
talk about unfair advantages.

That's a tremendous advantage
you had right there to come,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: Yes,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: back to.

Really nice.

So what was your, your
process on coming home?

Did you, did you go back into farming?

Did you decide to focus just on cattle?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I came back to farm not

really knowing anything.

I had grown up on the farm,
but my dad was, you know, the

guy that was kind of in charge

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
was the hired hand

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: I,
I completely understand that.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: Not
that he was trying to exclude me at all,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
my mind on other things.

And so

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
didn't even know the

difference between NP and K

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: I.

One thing that the military service did
give me was the skillset of learning.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: each

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: So important.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I've flown and each different weapon

system that we gain, we have to break
that system down, learn it inside

and out, and then be able to use it.

So I was just used to that.

So I thought,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
back to farm, let's learn how things grow.

And so I just started kind of,
self-education odyssey with research

on how plants grow, how the soil
functions and things like that.

And there were kind of few
people around that could really

give me satisfactory answers.

And so I, I really spent a long time you
know, years there learning how to do that.

So I started farming.

Just without cattle, just
row crop farming the way

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
First thing that I bought was

a tractor and a disc and a

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
know, so tillage, tillage and planting and

chemical agriculture, kind of the way that

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
done it.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142:
But that's what you knew,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
that's what I knew.

Yep.

And that's what my dad had

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: on.

And know, for him, a good portion of his

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
a farmer you were, the

more black your soil was,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
and and so then I started to think

about organic matter linking the
profitability of your farm to

how much organic matter you had.

And it was through my research that
I found out that to increase organic

matter, one of the things you need
to do is decrease tillage and,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
and starting to learn about those

principles of soil health that
were just kind of starting to be

formulated by our, ecosystem, right?

At that time.

So I wanted to decrease tillage and
so I started to no-till soybeans into

the corn stalks, which was really
crazy for what we were used to.

You know, you couldn't

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
tell that you'd been out there

basically after planting.

And then I, I built a strip tiller,
so I strip tilled our corn, and tried

to minimize the tillage there and
started to see some fairly noticeable

increases in water infiltration,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
no tilling and strip tilling.

And doing a few trials of that was
kind of where dad really fully handed

the baton for the farm over to me.

And he realized that the way I did
things is not the way that we're

gonna do things going forward.

And so he said, okay, son, you got it.

And even though sometimes I did
some crazy things that didn't

work out he still trusted and
basically put his confidence in me.

So we started farming ground.

And then the more I learned about
the principles of soil health and

realizing that animal integration
would be key to this, that's

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
bought cattle again and started

doing some rotational grazing.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

But before we go further on the cattle,
Karl, I wanna jump back just a little

bit on that transition from full tillage
to no tilling or your strip tiller.

How did that transition go?

Did you, were you able to get
some early winds that said, oh,

this is what we should be doing?

Or did you have to persevere for a
while before you saw those winds?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
the first task and the first win

was no tilling soybeans in, or
no tilling corn into soybeans, no

tilling soybeans into corn stalks.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, okay.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
to do that, we bought some row

cleaners for the front of our plant.

And and my dad was not really
crazy about how things looked.

So we compromised a little bit.

We had our soybean ground, a third of
it I planted right into the corn stalks.

a third of it we disked and a third

We hired a neighbor to
come in and put in strips.

He had a strip till rig

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
in strips and I planted

soybeans into those strips.

So we had three different
applications there.

And all three applications
yielded about the same.

the, the difference was there
tended to be fewer weeds in the

fewer or the less tilled areas.

So the no-till area

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
fewer weeds than the full scale tillage.

And that was really a big win.

That was where my dad said, okay,
son, you got the baton here.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: and.

Building a strip-till rig and
getting RTK guidance and strip

tilling corn was kind of a big lift.

after three years of doing that, it was
no-till soybeans, strip-till corn, and

then no-till soybeans on a specific spot.

We had a dry spring, and then on mother's
day we had about three and a half

inches of rain and about 45 minutes.

So really heavy

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
We, I drove around and I looked on

the other side of the road where
they had done full scale tillage.

There's kind of some slope to
our ground and there was terraces

over there, steep back terraces
that were plumb full of water.

So the terraces had done their job.

They kept erosion from happening as much,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
on my side of the road where I

had done no-till strip, till,
no-till, our broad-based terraces

didn't have any water in them.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I had seen that, that three and

a half inches of rain was able to
just infiltrate and not fill up the.

And so that was a really dramatic for me

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142:
Oh, that would be, yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
this is the way to go.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

Just, and just getting
out and looking at that.

I mean, because I think about that
when we're getting rain, I should drive

around more often and look at things.

I know we have a terrible amount of runoff
coming out my driveway that goes down

my driveway, which just drives me crazy
'cause I don't wanna lose that water.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Right?

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: But getting
out and looking at that and then

saying, Hey, I see a difference in my
neighbor's land versus what's happening

here and the difference is positive,
so I need to keep doing what I'm doing.

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: So at some point
you figured out, hey, we need to add

livestock to, to continue along this path.

So how do you integrate
livestock into your program?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
We just bought 13, cattle again.

I think it was six cows, bred cows
and then seven yearling heifers.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I took back a small pasture

of my dad's 'cause we had been
renting the pastures out still.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, okay.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I took back a small pasture.

We called it the sand hill because
it was an area that in the 1930s

all the topsoil had blown off.

it's

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
been kind of recovering since then.

My dad grew up in the forties
with a horse drawn sickle mower

mowing sweet clover there, because
that was the only thing that my

grandfather could get to grow in the,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
the clay sub soil.

And now we've started to
build the soil back there.

But anyway, taking back that small area
and starting to rotationally graze there.

So I, I bought some poly wire
and some push in posts and

solar in solar energizer, and.

And started to rotationally, graze those
cattle and learned a lot about, junky

polywire and how it's not worth it.

Get good stuff.

And and also learned the benefit pretty
quickly of the rotational grazing.

specifically one story is that
the corral in that 20 acre pasture

was one that my dad and I had
rebuilt when I was in high school.

And when I came back, I had to spend
two or three hours with a tile spade,

cutting down thistles in the corral

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: a
gate because it was just six, seven feet

high must thistles and Canadian thistles.

And and then I started rotating the
cattle to where they had access to

that corral just for a few days.

And then there was a, a rest period.

And then back into that, you know, in
the corral they'd go in there really

intently and shoulder to shoulder, mash
it down, but then getting outta there.

Two or three years, well, it was probably
three or four years later, my son was over

there with me and we took a video of him
running around in that corral barefoot the

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh wow.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
lush and green

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
to be seen.

and that really gave me of the
positive impact that animals can have

if they're done in the correct way.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

And that's a great visual there.

Now, just to continue on that, you
use rotational grazing for a few

years there, and you didn't use any
sprays or, or, or any chemicals on it?

It was just the presence of livestock
and the way they were managed.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: Yes.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

Okay.

Very good.

You mentioned there about junk polywire,
making sure you have a good energizer.

What's your suggestion for someone
they want to go buy some polywire?

What brand do you like
or what type do you like?

And same for Energizer?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Right.

there are a couple different brands.

I think Powerflex makes some pretty
good rollers as well as some good wire.

And the Gallagher makes some good wire.

I've gone to now using the poly braid,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
the more expensive wire, but it

lasts so much longer and it's

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
And I've really taken to

buying the Gallagher reels.

The Gallagher

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
heavier, a little bit physically

heavier, and they're a little bit more
expensive, but there's just so much more

secure they have a stronger guide on
them, and they have a locking mechanism

for when you hook the reel on the
post and it can't possibly come off.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I noticed I had.

A few different types, but anytime
I really wanted to make sure

that the cattle didn't get out.

I used those Gallagher reels and so,
that's what I started to transition to.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: And,
and that's a great thing there.

When you notice like if I
have multiple reels in my

pickup, what reel am I grabbing

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Right.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142:
to put up a new fence?

Oh, I don't wanna use those.

'cause that what, what are
you using all the time?

And if you go back, probably about
75 episodes we're talking reels

with someone, I think with Eli.

And I said, I don't
like the Gallagher ones.

I don't need my hand protected, I
don't need the latch to lock it on.

It's just over-engineered.

I remember saying this I have
to eat my words now because.

I grabbed that one whenever
I'm about to use a, a reel.

Now I still, I still like my others, but
the Gallagher one has grown on me and

probably, I won't say for certain, but
there's a high likelihood if I buy another

reel, it's gonna be a Gallagher one.

So I have to say that it's grown
on me from my earlier views on it.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

Yep.

And I've also transitioned from
primarily using pigtail push in posts

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
just a three eighths fiberglass rod,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, okay.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
and doing a little bit of

a, a knot on each post.

It's kind of a, an over under knob that
I saw from the guy at Alder Spring Ranch.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
his name?

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: I, I know that
I know who you're talking about, but

I can't think of his name right now.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
he had a video that he

showed how to do that knot.

And I played and replayed that
video to see how that knot was.

And the big advantage that I found
with being kind of a one man band

sometimes with those fiberglass rods
is I can carry fiberglass posts for

about, an eighth of a mile in my hand.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yeah,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
But if I was to carry a bunch of those

pigtail posts, number one, they're heavy.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: right.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
if I try to carry more than two of them

in my hand at one time, can't take one
of them out of my hand at one time.

'cause they're all, they just get all

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, they do.

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I end up getting very frustrated,

kinda losing my religion a little
bit, trying to get the posts

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
So that was you know, you can't

pull the whole line tight like
you can with a pigtail post.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: right.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: to
kind of shove those fiberglass rods in.

Slanted a little bit in one direction
so that when you tie the knot on,

you pull the post and put a little
bit of attention on the line.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
the whole line fairly tight.

And later on if you need to tighten
up the line a little bit, you can

just take the line and wrap it around
the post one or two more times.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
you can also put it at any

height that you want, 'cause
you can slide that knot up and

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: right.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
So, you could put two lines on the

same post if you wanna run two lines.

So I really enjoy those.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: I can really
see benefit of using the three eighth

inch fiberglass and doing it that way.

I've done a little bit with the
three eighths inch, but I got the

wire a little offsets to set my wire
height, and those are as bad, as the

pigtails, they may be worse, or the
tread ends about getting tangled up.

So if you're just able to carry
some three eighths and you're

doing that knot, I love that idea.

I may have to try that on some,
especially in places where I'm not

doing a very straight fence, because
that's where my tread ins really kind

of suffer if I'm curving the fence
around and stuff, because I gotta

make sure I have 'em angled right.

And then getting the fence
taunt enough takes some work.

So I, I'm gonna have to try that
Karl, and see how that goes for me.

But I love the idea of not having those
wire guides on there because those things

are just awful to get tangled up, so,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
One other thing, if the ground isn't real

soft, I have a, a piece of like one inch
square tubing that's capped on one end,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: oh, yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
piece of a leather glove up in there,

and I use that as a little bit of a
post pounder, and you can pound those

down into the ground if you need to.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Well,
that was gonna be my next question

because as you're putting those
in, if it's wet and you've got

good soil, those are not a problem.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Right.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: But other times
of the year when it gets dry here, or

if you've got frozen ground or you've
got more rocks than you want those are

a little difficult to get in the ground.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

you can, even when it's frozen you may
need to bring a drill and pre-drill the

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yeah,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
you can drive it in as well.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: yeah, yeah,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: now
you got a drill, a pounder, the posts,

it's, it's much more arduous in the
winter time than it is in The's Spring.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: yeah.

Everything you are taking to get it done,
that's just something more to carry.

So you won't wanna be very lean
with your, what you're carrying

and have a a method to it.

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: Yep.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142:
But I like that Karl.

I'm gonna have to try that with those
three eight inch posts and see how

that goes because it drives me crazy.

I can carry.

Almost, well, I can carry, when
I put 10 to 12 tread ins under my

arm, I can go a eighth of a mile and
usually in good shape, but get, you

know, those first couple of posts.

If it doesn't come out
good, I drop 'em all.

And it's just always, I'm not
always going a straight direction.

So sometimes my fences end
up going like a snake, and in

those cases I need a lot more.

And it's two trips to
the pickup or the mule.

So, ah, to try this and see how it goes,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: And
a lot of those in posts with the pigtails,

is that what you're talking about?

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: I use tread ins.

They're the O'Brien plastic
ones that's got multiple

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Oh, okay.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: heights.

And then on the backside
you could put a tape in it.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Okay.

Okay.

I had been using the pigtail posts
and those it seemed like after two

or three years, if they're in the
sun a lot during the summer, the

plastic on the pigtail starts to
crack, and now you're, you're sunk

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
snapping through there and

you're drawing your fence down.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: I, I found the
same issue with pigtails or if I am, or

if a fence gets drug through a pigtail
for some reason, I'll really wear that

plastic or that coating off there.

And if you're putting up a live fence,
which I don't like doing because I don't

like getting shocked, but occasionally
it happens and you do it with one of

those, and, and you make a connection.

You get shocked holding the post.

I don't like that.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, continue.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Enjoyed.

A thing called a zamer handle.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yes.

I love Zamer handles.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
On hot or not hot and

that, that really helps.

'cause then you can string stuff tight and
then come back and, and heat it up later.

Or string multiple fences and
not have them hot, not drag your

fence down and just make them hot
when the cattle are in that area.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: yeah.

The, the only, I love Zamer Hamels.

In fact, I have them on
almost every reel I have.

The biggest problem I have with them, when
I get the fence done, they automatically,

they don't automatically become hot.

I have to go back down
there and move them,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: yes.

Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142:
which is not a problem.

As long as you remember, I have
gotten to the pasture and been

like, why do I have a cow out?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Right.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: And,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: Yep.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: and
I'll go down to change that so

that I can work on the fence.

And I say, oh, I never
made it hot when I left.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah, I've done that too.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

That, that's the only
negative I have about 'em.

Otherwise, I really like them

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: Yep.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: and I, and
I'm not sure there's a good answer

to, to how they solve that problem.

They're better than the alternatives.

What kinda, continuing on the fence.

What kind of energizer are you running?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Of the workhorse I found is a,

a Gallagher it's an 11 jewel

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
energizer.

That was the, that was the biggest
one that I could buy that didn't have

a lot of other bells and whistles.

It didn't have wifi, it didn't
have, you know, a bunch of remote

things to work from my phone.

And

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
dollar per Juul, I found that

to be about the cheapest thing.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

Is that a solar one?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
no, it's

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142:
No, that's a plugin.

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
that's, that's what I, I tried

to use plugins anytime I could,
just because there's so much

power and so much more reliable

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: And
then I ended up also for one of my places

trying to go big and get, I got like
a, like a 60 or 80 joule speed, right.

Fencer that I have already had to
warranty it and send it back in.

They sent me another one, which is great.

And that one, of the huge advantages with
that one, one of these add-ins that I was

kind of avoiding with the Gallagher that
speed ride has, is the ability to turn

the fencer off from anywhere in the field.

Oh my goodness.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142:
is nice, isn't it?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
that would be like your zamer

handle automatically turning itself

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
So that, that is really

huge to be able to do that.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: I, I have, I did
have some speed rights, worked with the

remote, loved them, but I had some issues.

So now I've gone with Cyclops.

But the Cyclops doesn't have
that remote turn off, turn on.

And I, that is the feature I
missed, missed most of all.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: Yeah

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: in fact, I've
even thought about getting a blue, not

a Bluetooth, but a wifi plug that I
can do on my phone to turn it on and

off because, you know, to, that's the
reason I have to go back and change

that handle, or I've gotta go back
to the energizer and turn it off.

So I really miss that remote power.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Having putting a lot of switches

in the line really helps as well

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
off sections.

That helps me troubleshoot
where draws are quite a bit.

Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: I have
not used very mini switches

throughout to, to turn off sections.

When I originally got
started, I did a few and then.

I felt like, and, and this is for
me in my context and maybe, maybe I

need to try it again, that whenever
I turn 'em off, I'd leave them off

too long and then when I turned them
back on, I had all kinds of problems.

So I just got where I just leave
the whole fence electrified.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
been burned off.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Or something
bumps it and it it, you know, we've

got Bob Wire on the main place, so
the line gets tangled in the bob wire,

which of course you're gonna have to,
if that happened when it was live, I'd

know and I'd have to go fix it anyway.

But it just seems like every time I
went to turn those on, I'd have to

go do a whole lot of troubleshooting.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Mm-hmm.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Do you
find that to be too much of a issue?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Not too much.

I have gone to all high tensile steel.

So it tends to be a little bit less

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
The, the thing is, the reason that,

and the reason that I invested in that
large fencer for one of my farms is

that if you don't have things hot,
sometimes the grass can grow on it.

Grass

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
and wet grass growing is

the biggest draw on my fence

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Is a huge pain.

and so, but the, the switches help me
if I, I'm like, the whole place is wet

and grass growing on everything, but my
kettle are right here, I can concentrate

all the fence power right where I

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right.

Which makes sense.

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
crisis today.

And, and it

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
that crisis of the moment.

Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

Yeah.

That, that, that makes sense.

Sounds like a good use.

Yeah.

We, we went on that tangent about fencing
a little bit deeper than, than normal.

Let's jump over to water.

How are you doing water?

Do you have infrastructure
in place for water or do you

have to put infrastructure in?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Okay, we put some infrastructure in.

We had wells at both.

So I have two different farms,
two different locations.

And there's a well at both
of them on both places.

And actually one of the places
has rural water as well.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
and I installed a few thermo sink,

frost free waters that have these
three long tubes that go down into the

ground and kinda uses geothermal to

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
warm.

The center tube is the one that fills
with a float and it has a cap on it.

Then the side tubes are the ones
that the cattle drink out of.

all three are connected way
down, like seven feet below the

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: okay.

I was wondering how deep they go.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
the, the, the center one is the

one that fills up and then it
fills up those outside ones.

And so that helps keep
the water from freezing.

In the wintertime, not totally.

I mean, if there's not cows drinking off,
it's still gonna freeze, and the more

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
are drinking off of it, the better.

But it, it really helped.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: It helps.

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
a few of those.

So I had to dig some underground
line into a couple of those.

And then for a lot of my rotational
grazing, I put one inch black poly line

underneath a lot of the runs of fence,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, okay.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
my intermediate fence.

So I'd hook that up to the
well, and then I buy that black

poly line in 300 foot rolls.

And when I spliced together those
rolls, I'd splice 'em together

with the one inch and then have a.

I think it's a three
quarter inch threaded t on

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
then the cheapest valve that I could

find was a, like a copper or brass
valve that's for your water heater.

and it's got a, you know, just a
threaded that threads on there.

And a simple, valve that has a
hose attachment on the other side.

So it goes from pipe
thread to hose thread.

And so, I can just take a regular
garden hose and screw it onto there and

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
every 300 feet of that line.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I, I have small garden hoses that have

a, the garden hose on one side and on
the other side I have a quick coupler

that I can hook up to my water tank.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, okay.

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
unhook and hook to the water tank

and dump the water tank out, move
it, but it all sounds really easy,

but it is a, it's a task to drain the
water tank, to flip the thing over,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
the back of the truck.

And I, I went to 300 gallon water tanks.

I started out with 150 gallon water
tanks, but I went to 300 gallon

water tanks, just because they
had a little bit more heft volume

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
get drunk down and shoved

around by the cows as much.

And I also put two by fours
bolted across the top.

There's some places that you can
bolt on, on those black poly tanks to

give some more structure to the tank.

Otherwise the

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
on it and they break 'em pretty easily.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
those tanks breaking.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

And that,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
reinforcements on them

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: that's a good
idea to put reinforcements on there.

How many cows are you watering
out of each of those tanks?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
up to 80

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, okay.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

So that works out pretty good.

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Now, it sounds
like when you, you purchased those first

13 head, your herd's grown a little bit.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
it has.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: did you
focus in on type of cattle to buy,

and what type are you breeding for?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
At first I just bought the cows

that we had from around here, and so

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
phenotype that I was going towards.

But then I was blessed to have
kind of a friend of a friend or an

acquaintance down in Nebraska who had
started doing quite a transition with

their farm with Steve Campbell and
and getting some ferro cattle company

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Colorado.

Hobo was the genetic strain that
they were using and trying to.

Get their herd shorter, wider,
easy calving, easy fleshing.

And so I was able to get
some of their genetics.

They were

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
trying to transition from

Black Angus to Red Angus more.

And so a lot of the good blacks
that got kicked out, cows and

bulls, I kind of gobbled up

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: I
started to build up my herd with that.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: So
you focused on black animals?

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
did mostly because we're far enough

north here to where it's not as hot.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: for,
I desired to go grass fed and eventually

direct market and things like that, but
for those that I wasn't doing that, a

black cow just sells so much better at

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, they do?

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

They really make that argument that
you need a black coat hide animal.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

So you've continued using fables.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I, I have not, I have

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
purchased any feral bulls.

I bought that one bull from my friend,
and then I started keeping my own bulls

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, okay.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
line breeding from there.

I actually just I basically had a closed
herd, if you count his and mine together

from there until just this last year,
there was a producer in the local area

who'd been grass fed for like 35 years.

and he just passed away and some
of his kids liquidated some of

their animals and so I was able to
buy some of his animals as well.

So I'll start to keep
a couple of the bulls.

They look really nice out of

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
give me a little bit genetic diversity,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
trying to concentrate

good genetics if I can.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

And I, I love that doubling down on your
cow herd rather than bringing in bulls.

So if you've got your cows where
you want 'em, you're wanting

to, to increase the frequency of
those good genes in your herd.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: So I really
like raising your own animals, raising

your own bulls if you're able to.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I agree.

I, and I can't say that I'm an expert
and I don't know that my genetics are

necessarily the best in the world, but I'm
trying to make them better and trying to

do all that I can to increase epigenetic
expression and things like that, so,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

Yeah.

And of course the, the breeders
selling bulls won't appreciate my

opinion, but I'm not sure you need
the best genetics in the world.

You just need something that
works in your environment.

That's what you desire.

They do what you want 'em to do.

I don't care what the EPD
says for, for the bull, if

you've got animals performing.

Yeah.

Don't tell any of the universities
I go to because they, they wouldn't

be impressed with that statement.

With your, you mentioned, you know, right
now, or earlier on, you were marketing

animals locally through a cell barn.

I think that's what you said through
a sell barn, but you're working

towards direct to consumer sales.

How has that journey been for you?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
It's been kind of up and down.

So I, you know, we worked on our genetics
and our management for probably five or

six years before we got to where I felt
the meat quality was where I wanted it.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
So when I first got into cattle, I

did not desire to do grass fed at all.

I had a lot of the stereotypical
adversities to grass fed.

It's gonna be dry, it's gonna be
gamey, it's not gonna taste good.

I'm gonna feed these cattle grain.

I want grass fed genetic.

Because I thought they
would perform better other

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: I get that.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: I

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: them

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: I.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: So I
was concentrating on strip grazing through

standing corn for finishing the cattle,
and thought I would go that direction.

But as I continued to research and
started to figure out aspects of human

health and omega six to Omega-3 fatty
acid ratios and acidosis and what is

going on in the rumen and the digestive
tract of the cattle, kind of got drawn

or pushed or herded or whatever you
want to say towards grass finishing.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: and
then it became kind of a little bit of a

fascination and a challenge to do it well.

And so we try, we say we want to have
steakhouse quality beef that's healthy

enough to be considered medicine.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
It's a big challenge to get healthy stuff.

have it taste really, really
good to have that good

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
to have a good eating experience.

And so we, we weren't getting
there just by rotational grazing.

And we started then feeding
some baled and wrapped alfalfa.

So a lot of our crop ground while I was
full-time in the military, I, I came

back part-time in the military and I
was crop farming and things like that.

And then when I went back into
full-time service in the International

Guard, I was completely overwhelmed.

And we put all of our

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
ground into alfalfa

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: oh, okay.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
neighbor here that is a huge

resource, just a forage expert.

And he bailed and wrapped the alfalfa
and would market it to dairies.

And

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
we had a lot of alfalfa.

We had a lot of really high
quality alfalfa, and it was the

highest quality forage that I had.

And so I started feeding that
to my finishers, even though.

Way too much protein than what I need.

It was really expensive.

It was basically an experiment
I was able to get a better

eating experience out of those

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
that alfalfa to instead of finishing

them in like three years, you
know, I was down to 27 months and

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
inner muscular fat and things like that.

And then I started to experiment
with planting winter rye into the

alfalfa field after the fifth cutting.

And that winter rye and alfalfa would
grow up together in the spring and

we'd bail and wrap that and the winter
rye would give some extra energy.

It'd give acetic acid in there, act as a
bit of a probiotic, and by feeding that to

the animals then I started to bump up my
finishing window again, and I started to

decrease the kind of gameness of the meat.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
a, especially when I was feeding that

in the wintertime, I started to actually
get a little bit less yellow in the fat

a little bit whiter and more mild flavor.

And so that was where we, I
felt like I was proud of the

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
And so when that kind of coincided with

when I was done with the military, so
we kinda launched our direct marketing

then and had a lot of friends and family
and stuff like that that bought, so it

kind of took off and then it then it's
kind of been a slow creep ever since

there, probably mostly because I haven't
spent a lot of time or energy marketing,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
and the stuff that I have done, you know,

sitting at booth at a, a fair or something
like that has yielded very few results.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: I've
had is concentrating on that I have and

figuring out which, how to replicate them.

Which of their friends or family?

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: my
family, my siblings, and their people that

they know from church or from homeschool
or from other organizations just living.

Those have been the best resources and the

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
to grow our business.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

And it, it takes time.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
it takes time and it's still

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
A viable end all, be all

to support our whole farm.

I, at this point, I really enjoy
seeing the quality feedback by

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
taking it to the butcher shop

and getting that feedback for,
for myself and for our customers.

But it's a lot of work.

'cause everybody that comes out
to get a quarter of beef, I spend

half an hour with explaining what
we're doing and hanging out, you

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
and so if I was to do that with a hundred

animals, that'd be almost a full-time job.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I kind of desire to do that a.

Still on a small scale, almost
like I am right now to get good

quality feedback, but I'm pursuing
other regenerative means that I can

offload 40, 50, 60 animals at a time.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because that you only have
so many hours in the day.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: There's only
so much you can do, and I, I know

I'm guilty of overloading my days,
so I try and be very protective about

what I'm doing and what I commit to.

But still, yeah, I wanna say yes.

So, you know, I end up with too much.

Yeah.

Very good.

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cal_1_09-03-2025_080142:
Karl, let's shift gears again.

Just let's talk about a recent
change you had on your farm,

and that's virtual fencing.

We've talked about the fencing products
you used, and it sounds like you'd

found stuff that worked well for you.

Why did you consider virtual fencing?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Because as well as those other products

worked it was a ton of work each day.

So in order to do the type of
rotational grazing that I desired

to do, I wanted more intense moves
often with moving the back fence.

And and because I still don't have
water everywhere, I sometimes would

have to have long lanes to get the

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
to water.

And so before I actually got the virtual
fence, I was stringing probably three

quarters of a mile of fence each day.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
on the Ranger running along with a

bunch of pigtail or those fiberglass
posts in the back, and I'm walking

and I'm getting in great shape,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

You would be,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
taking a long time and a

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: it would.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
and on most days it's fine, but when

it's raining out and or something else
goes wrong and you just don't have time,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
it's like two or three hours every

day that sometimes I just don't have.

and so sometimes you compromise
a little bit and for that reason,

I decided to, to make the jump.

I I saw a testimonial from another
farmer at a conference that

I went to this last February.

and he was using the Gallagher e
Shepherd collars and that his, his

testimony and what he was using it for
made me think, oh, this could maybe be

something that I could use on my farm.

So

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
aware of the technology for a while, but

didn't realize that it was good enough
or cheap enough for me to consider.

And it's, it's definitely
good enough and it's.

cheap enough for me to consider.

If it would've been much more expensive,
it would've been hard to handle.

It still was a huge investment.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
in hindsight, now the way I'm

moving my animals would take me
three, four hours a day at, at a

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
stretching polywire.

And so now that I'm not doing
that, I can't imagine where I would

find those three or four hours.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

So you mentioned this fellow farmer
that had had good results from it

and they were using E Shepherd.

Did you immediately, not immediately,
when you decided to go on this path,

did you contact Gallagher or E Shepherd
and talk to them and start the process?

Or did you look at some of the other
Mark products on the market as well?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: I
looked at the other ones as well and there

were a few resources that I looked at that
kind of gave a side by side comparisons

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
and minuses, the costs.

'cause some of them have
a huge upfront cost.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
of them have low upfront

cost, but a subscription fee.

Some of them you

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
station for some of them you have

to change a battery all the time.

Some of 'em have combination of
solar powered and battery powered.

And I ended up settling on the E Shepherd.

I

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: What?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
there probably are some

others that are fine as well.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: the
East Shepherd hopefully will continue to

improve, but that's what I settled on.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

And I think both those
statements are correct.

I don't know depending on your context,
which one's gonna be the best one for

you, but they all have advantages.

They all have some
disadvantages as well too.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: Yep.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: What
really stuck out for E Shepherd

for you to go with them?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Never changing a battery.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

I,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: yeah,
I, I think that's a big one.

I love that there's, they're, they're a
cell network, so you don't have to do a

tower now, you can do a tower, but Yeah.

Makes a big differe.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
mean.

We're learning so much.

I listened to podcast of yours a
couple times ago where you talked

with somebody else about the virtual
fencing that he was doing, and he was

even talking about putting a bale of
hay in someplace that had cell network

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
so that they would get updated there

and then they could go to an area
that didn't have cell network coverage

and how he's sorting his bulls and
man, everybody you talk to is just

inventing new ways to use the technology

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
valuable and so much fun to be able

to kind of invent this whole thing.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

When were you able to get collars and
when did you get 'em on your cows?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
It took about two, two and a

half months for them to come in.

And so I ordered them and then they came
in in the late May, early June timeframe.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, okay.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
and I set them out to charge for a few

days and then set about mounting them
or putting them on all of the cows.

And so there's definitely a learning
curve there that's still ongoing with

learning the correct fit for those.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yeah,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I think my initial thought

was these collars, which are
the Gallaghers, probably the

biggest apparatus of the collars.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142:
I, I think you're correct.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
pounds.

It looks like a big cowbell hanging
below their, their neck there.

And I thought, I want this
thing to be as comfortable on my

cattle as I can possibly make it.

So I wanna make it as loose on their
neck as possible without it slipping off.

And that I think was a mistake.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, okay.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
to go to the other extreme.

You wanna make it as snug on their
neck as possible without choking them,

or becoming an encumbrance breathing
or eating or something like that.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
minimizes the, rocking nature of this

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
there because as they chew or as

they swat flies, if there's a lot of
play here, it can come up and whack

'em on the bottom side of the jaw.

And I've had some start to develop
a little bit of hanging skin with

probably some soreness on their

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
that has started

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: there.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: I
think they've started to get used to it

and it started to go away a little bit.

But I'm definitely, when I run 'em
all through the shoot again, I'm

gonna be tightening them up and going

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, okay.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: And
I know talking with Gallagher, they're

fit recommendations are getting tighter.

They're recommending people.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
them quite a bit tighter than what

they had recommended originally.

The down the downside with that is
if you are fitting them on an animal

that's growing like a finisher,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
you're gonna have to get them

in and expand the collar a
little bit now and again.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I found what the younger animals,

the finishers, they're not pretty
tight, they'll rub these things off

or they'll find something to rub
and, and they'll get the collars off.

and now you've got somebody
running around without a collar on.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

Have, have you had a lot of
difficulty with collars coming off?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I've had a fair amount of the collars

coming off of the the finishers.

So I've got

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142:
Off the finishers?

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
herd of about 40 and I've

probably put collars back on 10

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, okay.

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
And for them it hasn't been a big deal.

I haven't had anybody leave the
herd they haven't had a collar on.

So I've had,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
the 40 of 'em I've had at times two or

three that didn't have collars on them and
they've always been right with the herd.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I had a yearling bowl that

slipped a collar off with my herd.

he got then over the hot wire, which
wasn't very hot because I was a little

bit lazy 'cause I had these collars on

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
yearling bull in breeding time got

out and it was a while before I
found him in my neighbor's herd.

so yearling bulls are ones that don't
stick with the herd, but for the most

part had a couple animals in both
herds, my mama cows as well as my

finishers, that the collars either
slipped off or they've malfunctioned.

I've had a few that I've had a warranty
and they've been very good about that.

But some that just the cell
network stopped working or

something kept rebooting in there.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
the 150 collars that I ordered initially.

I've had to warranty
about four or five of 'em.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Okay.

Yeah.

You mentioned about the hot
wire not being too hot there.

Are you still using some polywire or have
you moved completely away from Polywire?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
It take very long especially if I've

got other things going on not put
a safety poly wire up around them.

And so my goal right now is I'm taking
out a lot of the intermediate single

strand, high tinsel steel wires that I
had in my paddocks inside my pastures

to divide 'em up into paddocks.

I'm taking all of that out I'm
adding that extra wire to the

outside to bolster the outside fence.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: and
so I'm basically, I am not backing it up.

I haven't, besides just like
around a hay bale or something.

I haven't strung a poly
wire in a month and a half.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yes.

Yeah, and And I assume that's working
well or you wouldn't continue with that?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: Yes.

Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
working well.

I haven't had, unless a collar is
malfunctioning, I haven't had an

animal once they're trained, escape

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, very good.

With your animals, did it take
'em very long to get trained?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Probably three or four

days to get trained.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
and I watched some training videos

that Gallagher has and set up like a
long, a big rectangle for a training

area that had polywire or electric
fence around the outside and the

draw, like the water on one end.

And then I gave them about two thirds
of that rectangle with the defense.

the first day, they don't know
what's going on, so they go through.

the

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Paddock, but they're

contained with the polywire.

And then the next day when they hear
the beep, they're like, something funny

happened after that beep yesterday and

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
two or three or four days, then

they inside the, the area that
I gave them with the, the fence.

And then I expanded a little
bit and move it a little bit.

And they, after three or four
days of that being proactive with

that, they learned pretty well.

And, and then they had it then It's
mostly a learning process for me.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Well,
and that was, that leads it

right into my next question.

How was it for you?

How was your training?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
My training is ongoing.

and so there's just, I'm sure with every
system there are quirks and ins and outs,

technical stuff to figure out how to
operate the website and things like that.

And so a couple of the specifics
that I've learned the longer.

virtual boundary has been established, the
less they'll push that boundary and the

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
it is for them to get them to go over it

once you do want to move that boundary.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: oh, okay.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Which makes sense, I

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah, it does.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
But it kind of had to, I kind of

had to learn that a little bit.

And so, I try to give them logical,
additional paddocks, you know, move the

fence that was moved yesterday today
and try to move that same line so that

they're looking for that area that
yesterday they were able to get through.

And so that's been one of the
biggest things you, I, I've been

making kind of alleyways to get to
more established water so I don't

have to move the water as often.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
that make sense?

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
And so, bringing them back to the

corral rather than moving a poly
tank the black tank every so often.

So bringing them back there.

So I'll give them a paddock and then when
I give them the next paddock, I'll start

to take out the sides of the previous
one as I move away from the corral.

So eventually I've got this kind of neck
and this alleyway that goes from the

corral out to where the new paddock is.

But I slowly bring back the sides of that
so that they're not wanting to push that.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Just slowly, ever so slowly they get to

learn that this is where the highway is
here, where I need to go to get back to

water, and then go out to my new paddock.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: And for your,
your alleys, how wide are they, that

they're still functional for the cows
to go down without being a problem.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Probably about.

40 or 50 feet.

I try

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, okay.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
know, real, real narrow.

I don't want 'em bouncing off the sides.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right, exactly.

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: Yep.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

Or, yeah.

So that, that works out good.

So how long is it taking you to,
to move cows each day and then

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: So
before, let's, let's say a, a daily move.

If I did a one move each day
with a virtual fence, now I can

do that in about four minutes

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, okay.

Versus two hours you were
talking about earlier.

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: And
that's four minutes sitting in a computer

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: in
the warmth or in the cool or whatever.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right.

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
and I've just started to, still just

do a daily move for my finishers
because I'm not pushing them nearly

as hard to graze things down as tight.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
just one move a day I feel like is, is

sufficient for them, for my cow calf herd.

I'm doing a little bit more intensive
grazing there, towards the total grazing.

And

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I set up a schedule to

move them four times a day.

And so I can set up that schedule,
you know, create four paddocks and

set up a schedule for them to move
in probably five or six minutes.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

Were you trying to do that ahead
of getting the virtual collars

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I wanted to, but labor was

always a limiting factor there.

I was like, I'm,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: right?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
be out there.

This is what I would be
doing all day, every day if

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right.

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
them the way that I wanted to graze them.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
And it's the, the collars don't

have the same intensity that I
maybe would be able to get to if I

was fencing and back fencing them

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
wire, because you can't, with Gallagher

anyway, you can't move the back fence up.

Real tight.

Because if one of them happens to be on
the other side of where you move the back

fence up, when that new boundary gets
established, they're just free to go.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, okay.

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: so,
you know, usually when you back fence them

you have another back fence established
before you take down the old back fence.

This, with the way it's set up
right now, there's no like one

way door that I can set up.

So when I move the back fence up, if
somebody happens to be back in that

part of the paddock, it's jailbreak

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, okay.

Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
isn't a problem except for yesterday

or the day before when all my cows
were in that side, that I moved the

back fence up and then all of a sudden
they were just kind of going off.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
to kind of herd 'em back

into where I wanted to.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

Having a one-way fence there
would be very desirable, I think.

And you know, this
technology's fairly early.

It's probably something that will
be implemented at a later date.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
they're taking inputs from all the

producers now, Hey, I want this.

Hey, I want that.

And they're trying to get more
functionality on the, on the mobile

app that you is on the other one.

So those, those guys are coding like crazy

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142:
Oh yeah, I imagine so.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: So you've
been able to experience the virtual

collars for 60, 90 days on cows now?

Maybe a little bit longer than that.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
bit longer.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: We won't,
I won't try and figure out math

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: you know.

Would you go, go back
to not having collars?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I, no, I would not,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
if I could sell 'em back for

what I bought 'em for right

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: right, right.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
It was a

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
investment and it continues to be a huge

investment, but the change in lifestyle.

I feel like the increased effectiveness
of the rotational grazing both make

it worth it for me to where I'm

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
to push forward.

Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

Yes.

Increase.

Go ahead.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
being able to on vacation was

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
because every time I came home from

town or from somewhere else, when
I come over the hill, I'm always

looking to see are my cows out or not?

And now I can look at my
phone anytime and see where my

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142:
And know where they are.

Oh, yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
at and I know that they're in.

And you know, now when a neighbor calls,
I'm not automatically thinking, oh no,

are my cows out because I know they're in.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

And, and to be honest,
that's my first thought.

When my neighbor calls me,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142:
What do I have out?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: Yes.

Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah,
just being able to, to check on and

see their location, I think just
brings your stress level down when

you're on vacation trying to enjoy.

But you have that in
your back of your mind.

I hope.

Hope the animals are where
they're supposed to be.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: Yep.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: I hope
no one went through any fence.

Of course, if they do, most time,
if I'm gonna be gone, if they were

to go through the poly wire, I've
got 'em in a permanent fence, so

they're, it's not gonna be a problem.

But it's always disappointing
if I come back and I'm like, oh

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
totally screws up your irritation.

'cause now they've

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
all kinds of stuff that I had

planned for the next two weeks.

Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right, right.

And they went through and cherry
picked everything and yeah.

Yeah.

What else about Virtual Fence that
I haven't asked that you think

it be good, that you wish you
knew before you got started with?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I wish I knew how to fit

them better so that I

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
my cows like I had for a few of them.

That would probably be the biggest thing.

That as

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: the
daily lessons that I'm learning on cow

psychology and how to build these paddocks
so that it's a logical flow for them.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: oh, yeah,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
and then the third thing

has just been learning the
particular system of E Shepherd.

And I'm sure the different

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: The

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
have their own pluses and minuses and

peculiarities about learning their
platform and things like that, but

it just takes a while of learning and
playing on it to learn those things.

Things.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
now I'm kind of exploring the

scheduling aspect of it so that I
can schedule multiple moves per day,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
enjoying exploring that to see how

much better forage utilization I
can get by moving than more often.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yeah.

Do you have any concerns
about 'em in the future?

I, I don't know exactly what
I'm even thinking right there,

but do you have anything that
you're a little worried about how

that's going to go in the future?

Just because you haven't experienced
it or, or something along that line?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah, I think possible downsides

would be, if these things
don't last at least five years,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
would be tough to make cash flow.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
If the, if the batteries and the solar

panels aren't able to keep up with
a good charge, in the winter time.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: right.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I'm looking forward to is rotational

grazing in the dead of winter
when there's snow on the ground,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
frozen, going through

swamps and stuff like that.

So if they, if they don't last very
long, that'd be a, a big downside.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right.

That would be.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I guess if, if somehow we found out

that just having these electronics
close to the, the animal somehow

affected the meat in an adverse

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
would be a big, big downside.

Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

That would be, yeah.

Well, very good.

Karl.

I think, um, the virtual
fencing is so very interest.

Interesting.

I, I want to do it so bad.

But I'm not, not quite there yet
because I wanna spend the money,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

Yeah.

And one one thing about the virtual
fencing that's nice is that you can.

It's, it's infinitely scalable.

It's scalable down and up.

'cause you can buy collars
or you can buy 400.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: right.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
they do I think have a break in the

price if you buy less than 50 or

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
that.

But, but you can buy four.

And it's not like, you know, buying
a big fencer, you buy a big fencer.

And whether you have a hundred
cattle or a thousand cattle, and the,

the labor required for rotational
grazing gets a lot more efficient.

The more cattle that you have, you
know you're moving, takes as long

to move one cow as it does to move
a hundred cows a lot of times.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Right.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
but to click on the computer, your

labor is so small that virtual fencing
seems a little bit more easily scalable,

especially down than regular fencing.

Does.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: You
know, and you bring up that east

Shepherd you can buy as few as four.

And I've thought about just, I've got
80 acres, a few miles from the house

that maybe I just buy a set for that 80
acres and try it and see how I like it.

And, and that's a lower initial cost.

I can see how it goes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

Yep.

I've thought about too, having just
a handful of cattle to graze around

like buildings and things like that

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
to clean stuff up.

And I've kind of been experimenting
with hanging collars at

different distances from sheds.

'cause that has been one thing that
have yet to improve a little bit is

when my cattle come inside of a shed to
water, the GPS accuracy goes way down

and the collar can tell them, might
tell them that they're outside the fence

or they might get a beep or a shock.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
they're in the shed, when they

shouldn't be getting that.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: oh, interesting.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
installing a GPS repeater

in the shed, which is

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
expense, or I think they're working on

some functionality to basically just
shut them off when they're in the shed

and they, they would turn themselves
back on again when they leave that shed

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

I hadn't even, that wasn't
even on my radar, Karl.

That's that's good to
know and to think about.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
With me hanging collars under tree

anywhere, the GPS is not as accurate
under trees or under a metal building.

The GPS accuracy starts
to go down a little bit,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Which makes sense.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

But I

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
right now out in the middle of the

field, the line from totally grazed
to ungrazed is about four feet wide.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

I mean, it's, it's tight.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142:
It photos I've seen.

It's much tighter than what I
anticipated them being able to do.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
me too.

Me too.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Well, Karl, I've
really enjoyed the, the conversation about

your journey and about the virtual collars
and how that's fitting in on your program.

It's time for us to transition to
our famous four questions, same four

questions we ask of all of our guests.

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cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Our first
question, what's your favorite grazing

grass related book or resource?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I listen to a lot of podcasts and so I

would say podcasts in general, but one
of the books I guess, that I've just

enjoyed the most lately has been Joel

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Salatin's

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
the, the Pigness of Pigs,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
the Marvelous Pigness of Pigs,

I think is what it's called.

And

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Just the worldview look at how

important it is to do something well.

And to to steward creation that
God has given us well, and let

that be worship towards him and not
just kind of stick our head in the

sand and refuse to want to learn.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
that has really pushed me to both

learn myself as well as encourage my
peers, especially my Christian peers,

to learn and not just do things the
same way we've always done them.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

I'm, I'm sure that's
an excellent resource.

I have not read it.

Now.

From your description, it sounds
like even if I didn't plan on getting

pigs, it would be a good read.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Oh yeah.

It has almost nothing to do with pigs.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yes.

Oh, okay.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
yeah,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Okay.

I'll, I'll have to add
that to my to read list.

It just continues to grow longer.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
sure it does.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

Our second question, what's your
favorite tool for the farm or ranch?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: The
most obvious one would be the collars.

And so I'm not gonna say that
probably my no-till drill.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: So
we, we use the heck out of that thing now.

I haven't pulled my corn planter out
in a couple years and utilizing the

drill for a bunch of multi-species
annual mixes that we're finishing our

cattle on as well as the winter rye.

It's just, it's versatile.

It's easy to hook up.

I don't have to ring in
G to GPS it's rugged.

So I really enjoy that John
Deere seven 50 no-till drill.

15 feet wide

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: it's 15.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
are easy to get.

It's, it's pretty, pretty reliable.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: that, that's one
of those tools that I dream about having.

One of these days, I'm
gonna have a no-till drill.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Our third
question, what would you tell someone?

Just getting started?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I knew these questions were coming, so

I thought about this one a little bit.

To get ready to have humility.

So, most of the things we talk
about or we've talked about have

been things that I've tried that
have worked, but I've tried a lot

of things that have not worked.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I'm looking at winter rye this

year that I planted, and we've
had a lot of rain this year.

Everything should have grown great.

Well, the winter rye that I planted
early into alfalfa, the alfalfa

really grew well, and it's, I'm
wondering if it's gonna just

completely choke the winter eye out.

I didn't think it

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: to
choke winter rye out, but there are so

many things that I've tried and that have
not worked and has been a significant

financial draw when those things don't

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: oh yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141: And
so, it's, I am gaining humility every day.

And so get ready to have humility.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142:
And that's so true.

My list of failures would be much
longer than my list of successes.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah, yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

Well, very good.

Excellent advice there.

And Karl, where can others
find out more about.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Well, we have a website,

sunlight and rain.com

and so that's probably the easiest place.

And then on our website
is my cell phone number.

If you wanna order beef or if
you wanna find out more about us.

I'm not a huge facebooker.

We have a Facebook page,
but it's always out of date.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Yeah.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I'm not big on social media and

things like that, and I kind of
pride myself on that actually.

So, if you wanna learn more
about me, visit the website,

gimme a call, come visit.

That's about, yeah,

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: Oh, very good.

And Karl, before we wrap it up for
today, do you have a question for me?

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
I thought about this question as well.

And I have a friend who's
interested in maybe podcasting.

And so I have a question
for you about podcasting

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: All right,

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
How do you see your time being

worth it monetarily for podcasting?

How do you monetize your podcast?

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: so.

When I first started, you know, it was
a passion project or a COVID project,

and I, I was just pouring time outside,
regular job outside the farm into it.

It was about three years in
before I did any ads on it.

Able, able, and actually the,
the first ads I ran was all

companies reaching out to me.

They had heard of the, they had heard
the podcast and they reached out to me.

And then figuring out that and
pricing, it was a journey in itself

because, I'll be honest, the ads cost
more than I think they should cost.

But based upon my numbers and
everything, and my sponsors are

happy with it, I'm happy with it.

So it works out good.

At this point I spend, for the podcast,
six to eight hours a week on it.

Some weeks it's more,
some weeks it's less.

I spend I can really get
granular in there, so, have

your, your friend contact me.

I'll, I'll tell 'em all about my process.

But that's how long I figure.

And my, my hard upper limit
on that is eight hours.

So I, I have two days allotted to it, but
I don't spend the whole day doing those.

And I say that that's for the editing,
getting promotion out and doing stuff.

When I record episodes, that
takes a couple hours and those are

scattered throughout my schedule.

So some weeks I may record four episodes.

I may record one, I may record zero.

And right now I'm in a, a phase where I
probably won't record too many episodes

in the near future because I'm pretty
booked out for the next couple of months.

So, which is really nice.

That allows me to front load my, my labor
so that I'm able to get the recording

in and I can edit and get stuff ready,
and then I'm able to take breaks.

Because doing a, a weekly every week
doing it, it gets old at times and

sometimes you just don't want to do it.

So it works out good to provide me where
I can build in some breaks if I want 'em.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: And then
on the, on the money, on paying

for it with the ads, the podcast
has grown with the ads coming in.

I'm paid for my time now.

Am I getting rich?

No.

Is it paying for my time?

Yes.

So that's a really nice benefit
for a passion project I started

just because I wanted to, to gain
knowledge and share knowledge.

Now it pays me to do those that
time, which I think is win, win, win.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Yeah.

Great.

cal_1_09-03-2025_080142: I
appreciate the question, Karl.

I appreciate you coming on and sharing.

Really enjoyed learning about
your journey, your operation,

and about the virtual collars.

squadcaster-0hid_1_09-03-2025_080141:
Thanks Cal.

It was nice to be here.

I appreciate Karl sharing his journey,
sharing about his operation, and

then allowing us to take a deeper
dive on those virtual collars.

Like I've said so many times, it's very
interesting to me and I'm so glad Karl

shared the successes he's having with him
as well as some failures or, or, I hate

to say failures, but some things that
aren't quite there yet, and that's okay.

The thing that really stuck out to me
when I asked Karl if he would do it again,

and he made the comment that if he could
get all of his money back now, if he just

sent the callers back, he would not do it.

I think that speaks volume to what
virtual collars have the capacity for us

to do in the way we manage our animals.

Um, I would love to put virtual
callers on my animals, so if

any, um, vendors out there wanna
supply me some, that'd be great.

I do think that's really good.

If you are a grass farmer and you wanna
share about your story, reach out to me.

Just shoot me an email
cal@grazinggrass.com.

You know, I've been playing with
the website, so it's kind of in

a, in a mixed state as usual.

Also, if you've emailed me in the
past or you filled out a form and you

didn't hear from me, check your spam.

Or reach out to me again because I try and
reply to everyone who reaches out to me.

So if you feel like I didn't
reply to you, I most likely did.

Of course I could have missed
something, but most likely I did and

it got caught by spam or something.

So you might check that
or reach out to me again.

Uh, like I said, if you're a
grass farmer and wanna share

your story, shoot me an email.

And with that, I hope you'll
keep on grazing grass.