Grazing Grass Podcast sharing Regenerative Ag Stories

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: So we will
get started with the fast five.

Our first question, what's your name?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Go.

I'm Bob.

We're Bob and, and Deth
of Clear Spring Ranch.

Mountain Grove, Missouri.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, yes.

And what livestock species do you agree?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Go ahead.

Currently cows.

We have a, a few sheep and just a
handful of, of pigs running in the woods.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: I like to tell
people when they ask me what I have, cows,

I've got hair sheep, and just a handful
of goats to keep things interesting.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: maybe the pigs
are keeping it interesting for you.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Actually
the pigs, the sheep actually belong

to a, a business partner of ours.

And And the pigs also.

Yeah, the pigs.

So, those are our theirs.

But they are they've been a fun addition.

Really.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
Baby pigs are awful.

Cute.

So are baby lambs.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We don't really have, we the,
with the size of our operation,

we really don't have enough to,
to make a whole lot of difference.

I mean, of the smaller, of the,
of the, of the small ones, of

the small ruminants and the pigs.

There's, I mean, the pigs
are basically in the woods.

Is, is, you know, so they're just, not.

They're kind of clearing out
some underbrush in there, but I

don't know if we even have enough
to make much of a dent on that.

But we do live in the Ozarks, you
know, so there's, yeah, there's

plenty of underbrush and lots of trees

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: it,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
and lots and lots of

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: if you could
just get something to eat the rocks.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Right.

That would be phenomenal.

Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: So I'm,
I'm east of the Ozarks, just

barely if you look at some maps,
but I'm, I'm, I'm not east of it.

I don't even know my directions.

I'm west of it, barely Flint Hills to the
north, to the northwest and we're, we're

kind of in that transition area here.

But interesting thing.

So the land we own here, that's, my
dad owns my grandparents land up the

road, can't find a rock anywhere, but
there's a ridge that runs just west.

And I lease land that borders my dad.

And he doesn't have rocks coming
outta the top of the ground and

the lease land I have are coming
outta the top of the ground.

just crazy the change there.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
Icebergs, gotta blame them.

Icebergs,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

Yeah.

What year did you all
start grazing animals?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: oh gosh.

Down here.

Down here?

Or, or, or altogether.

Or, or management.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: or

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
Management grazing.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356:
cover some of it, whatever.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
The management grazing was

about eight, eight years ago.

Intensively off pretty much right
after we moved with three day moves

with, with like three day moves or
just you know, just whatever the NRCS

recommended when we moved down here.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: And we
kind of started with that because we

were previously, we were, we had a
few cows, but they were all Nebraska.

They were all pretty
much continuously razed.

We rotated 'em maybe once every couple,
three weeks or something like that, you

know, might, I think mostly it was like
a three week rotation or something.

Mm-hmm.

and then when we moved down, but
we were mostly crop farmers, so I

mean, that was kind of a sideline.

We didn't have that many and but
when we moved down here we, we

wanted to manage it differently.

And so yeah.

Cal: Welcome to the grazing grass podcast.

The podcast dedicated to sharing
the stories of grass-based

livestock producers, exploring
regenerative practices that improve

the land animals and our lives.

I'm your host, Cal Hardage and each
week we'll dive into the journeys,

challenges, and successes of
producers like you, learning from

their experiences, and inspiring
each other to grow, and graze better.

Whether you're a seasoned
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This is the place for you.

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Scholarship and grant opportunities
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Visit noble.org

and select Find a course to learn
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enroll today because smart decisions
can lead to a stronger ranch.

If you listen to last week's, 10 seconds
about the farm and 10 seconds about the

podcast, I was a little long-winded.

I promise today will be much quicker
for 10 seconds about the farm.

What does every farmer want to talk about?

And its rain.

We are getting some, I hope those
farms and ranches out in Western

US and elsewhere across the world
that's not getting any rain.

May some be in your future.

For 10 seconds about the podcast.

Thank you for listening, and
please share this episode with

someone who might benefit from it.

Appreciate it.

And with that, let's
get back to Ann and Bob.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: And I know
on other pod podcasts you've mentioned

about that journey and getting there,
but I do wanna cover a little bit of it.

What got you interested
in moving your cows?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Well I
went up to Greg, Judy and Mitchell Enni.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: And the
one I went to up there was pretty,

I mean, Greg didn't do a whole lot.

It was mostly Ian that that
put the grazing thing on.

And, and he really, really,
really made an impression on

me as far as, you know, basic.

What he said is, I'm not gonna
tell you what to do, but I'm

gonna show you what can be done.

And he basically, basically he
said, with management, you can

fix about any problem you have.

And, and that really intrigued me.

And so I, when I came, came back from
that, I, we, we kind of jumped both

feet into the, the more of the amp or
daily moves and that kind of stuff.

So that's kind of what,
what got it kicked going.

Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

Really jump started that.

When you came back from that, what think
you said you were doing some moves,

but they weren't quite as frequent.

What'd you have to do to to take
that next step from three or

four day moves to daily moves?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: A little
more polywire and that was about it.

Just lot of, a lot more planning.

Obviously you need, you need to plan
your paddocks out a little better

and, and yeah, figure out how much
they're going to eat in a day.

And, and then how you want,
how much you want to graze.

You know, at first, when we first
started off, we did well for the first,

quite a few, the first few years we
did a more of a selective grazing.

We went pretty fast around and
let 'em just pick and choose

and, that works pretty good.

But I think with slowing up and,
and doing a more of a total grazing,

I think is better for the soil.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: The
other thing you, the other thing

that you changed in prep for was
we got a portable water system.

I mean, he went to grade duty school and
in 30 days we had a portable water system.

Yeah.

And that, and that was our stop
gap in between getting an equipped

thing to put in tire tanks

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: okay.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: we couldn't,
we, we couldn't, we couldn't move daily

with the way our water system was set up
on the ranch until, we got about whole,

I mean, we put in, since we've moved down
here, we've put in 28, 28 tire tanks.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh wow.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Just
because they were, some, some pastures

had no water except for dams or
tanks or whatever you wanna call

it, whatever your terminology is.

And those started drying up
because they were old and

they needed to be cleaned out.

And I don't like,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
like that kind of water anyway.

I like fresh water.

So we went ahead and, and started
putting tire tanks in and yeah, so we

put a bunch of them in and that really,
the water's a big thing, you know,

as far as moving cattle, you gotta
have water wherever they're at, so,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

That's always a, a limitation as

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: thinking
how you're gonna move cows.

I've got a couple questions
on that watering system.

First, that portable watering
system, what was it and how many

cows were you watering out of that?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Well, we
had oh gosh, I forget the brand name.

Lemme look up the brand name.

It's a Kline system

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: and

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: there
was the stainless steel tanks.

They're, they're not very big.

They're probably four foot and there's
a, a drink site on each side, and then

there's a, a float, the float thing
is set in the middle, but they're

not, not very big as far as that.

But we were, we were, we had
two of them hooked in tandem.

And we were watering
probably 200 cows outta that.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
So the theory that,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: had a
pretty good size tank on that.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: no,
the tanks weren't very big, but there

was, we had two of 'em, so they could
actually only about 3, 6, 9, probably

12, 12 or 15 could actually at one time.

Maybe, probably only 12.

But if, but we were real, we would
make sure that they were set pretty

much in the center of each paddock.

And then it was funny, you watch
those cows, they would, I don't

know if you can, can you see that?

Yeah.

That's what they look like.

That's what they looks like.

Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: that.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: But
they but those cows would take turns.

They'd be out there grazing and
you'd see 'em look up over there.

And if there was a whole bunch
drinking, then they would just wait.

And then as soon as they walked
away, then they would come up.

It was crazy how that works.

But you would think that there's
no way you could water 200

cows off of that, but you can.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

Did you have pressurized
water going to it?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yes.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: I had, I had
three, three quarters of a mile of inch

and a quarter camlock, 3, 375 foot lengths
that I drug around with a, with a side

by side, and then just hooked those all
together so I could go three quarters of

a mile from a hydrant and, and have water.

So I moved those up.

I'm, I wore 'em out, dragging 'em
down, gravel roads and all kinds stuff.

I used them.

That was, that was a lot of work.

I sure glad to get tire tanks in
because moving, moving cows and moving

mineral feeders and moving waters and
moving the water lines too was, was

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
And remember where all the

lines are too, was a challenge.

Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, I imagine so.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: And
then I actually put in a a, a GPS

system in my side by side, so I
knew when to unhook the hoses,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: you know,
so every, so I'd just hit return here

and as soon I get, got to 370 feet,
I'd unhook a hose and I'd drive and

I'd pull like five of 'em at a time.

And then I'd, then I'd go back
and hook 'em up and they were all

within, you know, three, four foot.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: that's,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Because

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: little

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: otherwise,
otherwise you had no idea where to stop.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

You're guessing at it.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Hook up.

And that drive you crazy because you'd
go back and you'd have 30 foot there that

you needed to go pull ahead some more.

And so, yeah, I pull like five of them
at a time and then just unhook and, and

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: oh, yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
worked pretty good.

But it's, it's very labor intensive,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: If you were
looking back on that time before

you got those, the tire waters in,
that something you would still do,

or would you do that some other way?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
For transition.

Yeah, I would, I would do it
again if I was, if I was younger.

Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Right,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Well,
you know, and the, the cool thing about

that system is, is it wasn't such a
behemoth that I couldn't move them.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

Anybody, anybody I could.

The, the tire tanks are designed so
that when you go to dump 'em, or not

the tire tanks, sorry, the stainless
waters, when you go to dump 'em.

The one end is a little bit
rounded, so if you can just

get the leverage to flip it and

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
know, then it, it flips easy.

We'd pick them up and we'd, we'd dump
all but about a foot out of the bottom

or six, eight inches so that when you
pulled them ahead, next time you had a

level in there so you knew, make sure you
had 'em on somewhat level ground so they

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: ground
but you just pick 'em up and dump 'em

so that they pulled a little easier.

Overall I thought they worked really good.

The things that I didn't like about
them are the black pipe on top of

the ground with the water was warm.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

It'd be pretty warm,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: and then,
like I said, just the challenges of, you

know, know, and of the, of the labor.

And they, and they would slide
them around a little bit sometimes.

Yeah.

And then they would sit there
and then they would run over?

Yeah, they would because,
because they would get off.

Because, you know, finding a
flat spot here was pretty hard.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356:
Yeah, you, you have a lot more

trouble with that than I do.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
Yeah, we have.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's, it's, it's rolling.

Let's put it that way.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: So yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: the, you were
able to use EEE, boy, I can't even talk,

equip to get water put in the ground.

I assume you put it in
the ground to those tire

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Mm-hmm.

And it all,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: that,
was that one I've, I don't

even know their terminology.

Was that one time or did you do it over

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
we had, we had two contracts.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Two contracts?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: first, the
first one we, the first one we did was

almost like we, it was almost like we had
to, because we had those, those pastures

that had the, dams that were drying up.

And we did that one
almost, almost right away.

Mm-hmm.

Because we just, we didn't have anything.

We had to put a well and
everything in on that piece of

property because there was no.

There was no infrastructure whatsoever.

So we couldn't even use the
portable ones over there because

we didn't have any water.

We had nothing there.

Well, on the one piece of land,
we used to run a hose underneath

the, the road through a culbert.

Yeah.

To get water over there.

So it, it needed from our, I
mean this was from, from one

side of the road to the other.

Yeah.

Side the

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Right.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: So, so
yeah that was zero fun, I promise.

But, but the first, the first contract
we just did, we just did eight tanks.

Yeah.

I can't remember.

It was seven or seven.

Seven or seven or eight,
seven tanks, I think.

Yeah.

Seven or eight or something like that.

And then, then the second contract,
when we did it we had some tanks, but

they, I just didn't like the location
of them because they were off in the

corners and not, they weren't conducive
to what the way we wanted to graze.

So, so that we, we put, put 'em more out
in the middle of the pastures 'cause we

don't hay, so we're not worried about.

You know, them or anything like that?

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Right.

Someone's looking at a watering point
and they're looking from a set stocking

perspective where water versus where
if you're rotationally grazing your

animals, AMP grazing not the same.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: no.

Right.

Definitely not.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and I don't, and, and I really
don't like to make them walk too

terribly far, but general rule was,
is we wanted to with the number

of cows we have, we wanted tank,
probably a minimum of every 30 acres.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: oh

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Uh,
some we have, some, we have, we

have a couple places where the,
it's, there's 40 acres one tire.

I mean, we can, we can work
with that because we're running,

you know, close to 300 head.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: So.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: you watering out
of any natural watering spots still yet?

Or is

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: All
our, all our dams are fenced off,

but they can't, they have access
to them, that makes any sense.

We put the hot wire up, but we put it up
just so they can't go in and wall, they're

in the bottom, but if they want to go
drink, we have, we have a couple spots

where, like in the wintertime where we
were using the portables and, some lease

ground where we didn't put in tire tanks
that we will still use dams and stuff.

Well, and we have, we do have a
couple springs that the cattle

will drink from, but they're
not required to drink from them.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

So, yeah.

But yeah, there's, there's a couple
spots on the, on the place yet

where we don't have tire tanks,
but that's mostly lease ground.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

With your fencing infrastructure,
you mentioned using poly

wire to do your daily breaks.

What does your infrastructure look like?

Is it a pre or fence and then you,
you're carving it up daily, or

do you have some sub paddocks in
there, or semi-permanent paddocks in

there that you divided up each day?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
Most of them are just perimeters.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: the,
there's a few that, that are divided.

That was, we were
divided when we got here.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: and,
and there are some that were divided

when we got here and we tore those
out because the way they divided them

didn't work the way I wanted to do it.

Because,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Right.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: because
they, they had like a nice clean

spot on the top where they hayed,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
but there was no trees in there.

There's trees on both sides and
they, you know, they fenced out

the center so they could hay it.

And so I, I tore those out.

then if I can, you know, as long as
I got a fence every quarter mile,

I don't really care how they are.

of our perimeter is five barbs.

Some of it is, is just a single hot wire

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
you know, a high tensile one.

But most of it is, is barbed
wire for the perimeters.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: you mentioned
you have someone running sheep on you all.

What are they doing for, for fencing?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Well
there, the barbs, well, we used

to run a whole bunch of goats too.

So we have, part of the ranch is set up
where we put a we lowered the, the barb

down and then put a hot wire in the middle

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, okay.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
on the five on there.

And, and that's where they're running.

And that, so, so there's a, at about
four inches off the ground, there's

a, there's a barb, then there's a hot
wire, and then there's another barb.

And, and if they get it, if they
stick their head in there and get

caught between the two, we, you know,
you have to make sure they can get

back out because it will kill 'em.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: oh yeah.

And do you, and so is that still
just five wires of barb wire

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

And then

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: the

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: with
the one hot wire on the bottom,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Could, and
actually the previous owners on most of

the places put a hot wire up high too,
so to carry the power around the ranch.

we had, so they did a pretty
good job of setting it up.

So it was pretty easy to transition
because I had, hot wire there, but I just,

I just had to revamp it a little bit.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

The, the issue I have with our hot
wire here on Place is we have so many

paddock, permanent paddocks or permanent
pastures just keeping the hot wire

from grounding out is a full-time job.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah, it,
it, it needs to be tight, when you're

putting them on t posts where you
gotta barb four inches away from it.

If it's not tight, gonna go through
and it's gonna flip it up on there.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
it's nice, nice if you can section

'em out, so that's easy to find.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
yeah, that's, that, that

can be a full-time job too.

And especially like on theirs
where they put the one up higher.

That seems like when the deer
crawl through, they like to

get it tangled up into a,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: they'll get
a, you know, and we do have a lot of deer.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah,
Al always something with that.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

Yes.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: You mentioned
each day you're moving the mineral feeder.

What's your mineral feeder look like?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: It's just a
Sioux round, one bolted on a rubber tire.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: oh, okay.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: And it's,
you can get free truck tires in town.

They just give 'em away.

'cause they don't, they
gotta dispose of 'em somehow.

And then I just put an eye
bolt in the bottom of 'em and

a chain on it and off we go.

I have four mineral feeders out there.

I have one with high iodine
salt, one with garlic salt, one

with selenium selenium salt.

And then I have one that with a mineral.

And then a product called SR
65, which has got a clay base.

It's a Redmond It's got clay and
salt mixed together and that seems to

help with the toxicity of the fescue.

Some.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Do you
see a, a difference in consumption

of the type of salt depending
upon years or where they are?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

Yeah.

You do.

Some they on general they, they eat
more more of the garlic salt than any

of the others, others that we feed.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Do you think
the garlic salt helps with flies?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: I think so.

Yeah.

I, I do, I mean, of course, daily
moves really help with flies too.

You know, if you're, if you're not
sitting on top of, you know, three or

four day old manure, I think the garlic
salts made a difference over time.

Like, don't hardly have
any lice issues anymore.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: we
don't see ticks on the cattle we're,

we have done that in the past.

As bad.

I mean, they still there, you
know, they're still gonna get,

you know, one here and there, but
it's not gonna be as horrendous

as what it has been in the past.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

So you keeping the garlic
salt out there year round?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yes.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

Yeah.

So who hauls that?

Because was buying some mineral that had
garlic in it, and my wife was always mad

when I put it in the trunk of the car

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Oh,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: because
the car smelled pretty stout then.

So

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: vampires.

Well, we at one, when we moved down here,
we, we were actually dealers for Redmond,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
and so I got semi-load in, so I

got enough salt to last me while.

A while,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
Because I, I haven't actively

tried to sell it here and, and I've
got, well, we're pretty remote.

We could sell it, but nobody wants
to drive 15 miles to go get salt.

So we're, we're

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
yeah, we probably have.

We're set for a little while,
but probab probably at least six

or eight pallets of each one.

Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: But in, in
answer to your wife's issue there, when

we get that garlic salt in, holy smokes,
the whole half, lower half of the ranch.

Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
no doubt what's going on.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356:
And is Stout stuff.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yep, yep.

Yeah.

I just opened up a new pallet the other
day and it's all plastic and you, and

you pull that plastic back and even
though it's been sitting there for a

year, it, it really, it's pretty stoked.

You can tell.

But yeah, I don't mind it at all.

It doesn't bother me any, no,
it, it doesn't bother me either.

But it's just, you drive down there and
you're like garlic bread, pizza hut.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Right.

Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: So, yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: When you
all moved to your current location

in Missouri, what, did you all bring
any cows, cattle with you or did

you start building your herd then,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
No, we started over, we sold

all our cattle and started over.

That was,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: and

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
that was a hard move.

That was a hard move.

After you've, we built our
cattle herd really well.

We started, started in 96 with cows.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: I was, I
was a pig farmer before that, so, and by

the time we moved in 2014, we were about,
without looking at the numbers, we were

somewhere between five and 10 head from
having raised every cow on the place.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
So it was, that was hard.

It was like selling, selling your kid.

I mean, you know.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: In a sense,
you know, so, but they were, they were

black balancers and were in, we moved
from northeast Nebraska, so, yeah.

It was not, it wasn't gonna be good.

I wouldn't, they wouldn't
have handled the move at all,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: right.

Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: so.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: what breed did
y'all go with when y'all moved down there?

Or what type of cows

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
Well, what happened?

We tried.

There you go.

Well, we were a little strapped
for cash, so we ended up with

quite a few Cory, Annie cows.

Well, if over time, so we started,
we actually had some Black Angus,

well, we bought what we could get.

Yeah, well it, okay, so we moved in 2014.

And if you remember what
2014 was like for buying cow,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: it was,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: and expensive.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
it was stupid.

Yeah.

They were very expensive.

We were, we paid, we paid like
$2,800 for, I don't even know.

Red heifers.

I,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: blocked
that from my memory because it

was terrifi, you know, at that, at
that time because they, it was so,

it was about as bad as it is now.

Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: But then
finding the cattle was a challenge.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: and
so we bought, we bought some of

the guys cattle that lived here.

bought some heifers that ended up
being Nebraska based heifers anyway,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
and come here.

And then we bought, those were
black and black whiteface mixed.

And as those fell out, we added some reds.

And then it was like, this is insane.

We've gotta find something
that works better.

But then covering all of those cattle
to start with were braford, we started

out with Braford bulls down here.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: We tried.

Yeah.

That was the first, thing we tried.

And, and the, the issue we had with
those was the calves were plenty big for.

Cows for our, smaller framed cows
that we were trying to, I think

they would've worked beautifully
with a different set of cows.

But it, it wasn't gonna work.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: This, no.

Yeah.

And then I think the, the braford
on the female end would've been

better if we could have gone Yes.

If we would've had braford females
and maybe a south Poll and maybe

a south Poll bull would've been,
would've looked all together different.

But anyway,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
over time we like,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: sell pretty good?

In your local market?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: no,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: no.

We're not, not super popular.

It's a livestock market.

No, because we're not, not traditional.

We're not, you know, we're not, we
just don't do things traditionally.

So, and we do have quite a mixture
and we do, we've got a, Bob calls 'em

our, some are herd, some are red, some
are white, some are black, some are

spotted, some are, you know, some have

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
don't, you know.

So, but we ended up with that pot.

I've got a friend of mine that ran across
a couple pot loads of Corey, and he's.

That weren't very far from here.

And we orchestrated that, got
those Cory Nies, and while they

may be ugly cows, love 'em here.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: mean, they
are like the goats of the cow world,

but we cover then we cover everything At
this point now we cover everything with,

with south registered, south Poll bulls

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: bull.

And, and that's a pretty good combo.

He gets some pretty nice
calves out of those.

Cory Nies.

Yep.

The South Poll takes a lot of
the ugly off the Cory Nies.

Yeah.

So,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356:
I, I can contest to that.

I've got some corani cows
covered with a south Poll bull.

I, I like those crosses.

And then if you keep that half
blood heifer, that three quarter

caps she raises, you'll never
know there was any Corte in there.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
Unless, unless, well in hindsight

we shouldn't have bought solids,
solid colored, solid categories.

Because I've got, I've got some pretty
colored up ones and I, I like them

because I like a little variety to look
at, but you know, it keeps me happy too.

So there's that and, but you just,
you just you just wanna eat those

and you don't wanna take them to the

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Right, because
they've got a little bit of white.

In fact one of my COEs calf just
born the other day, it's solid red,

except there's like three little
white patches on the tail head.

I'm like, oh, man.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356:
Yeah, shoe poly's there.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: But,
but, you know, they, they taste

as good as all the rest of 'em.

I, you know, it's, it's, you put 'em
in the meat business and they're,

marble up, they finish up, they, I
mean, it's, it's just an high thing.

And that's,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: so,
I, I don't have a problem with it.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: So as
you, you all continue on, are you

replacing those Corriente as they
get older with their offspring?

So you're, you're keeping them,
so your herd is, is becoming more

South Poll or are you selling a
lot of those South Poll heifers

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
No, no, we actually we actually

keep almost every heifer and then
give her a chance to be a cow

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
and, and we're having some,

some difficulties getting him
bread, but and to calve at two.

But we working on that too, if you
know, it's a process, but they,

they'll either stay in the herd or
they'll go into the meat program.

So either way,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: but
that's about, that's what we've

been doing with the heifers.

We don't sell hardly any heifers.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

how are you marketing your steers?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: We try
and market 'em privately first, and

then if we can't, then they either go
to a sale barn or superior or something.

Yeah.

I mean, usually, usually,
you know, I'll keep 'em.

Well, these.

We've had 'em around now.

I know, but I haven't done a very good
job of marketing this year either.

So there's that.

So we, we put 'em up on,
on the Grazed in America.

Had had some, had a few people interested.

And, and we, we still have 'em.

But they're gonna have to go here
pretty soon because we've had 'em

separated off by themselves for a month.

Over, a month.

Well, yeah, we weighed 'em on the
23rd of June, and that's when we

separated 'em off from mm-hmm.

We weaned the, we weaned the spring
calves February and threw 'em in

with the fall cows and their calves.

And then in July we
weaned everything else.

We keep, we keep 'em everything
through the spring flush usually.

So to kind of help us control

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
the extra grass.

Then usually, and now's usually the
time when we sell all the calves.

So we've got all our spring, we
don't keep any of the fall heifers.

So we have our fall heifers and our
fall steers, and then our spring

steers, and we keep a few of the spring
steers for our meat business too.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah, yeah,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: So, yeah,
that's I try and market 'em privately

and until I get tired of marketing and

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: right.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: I, I,
then I sell 'em at a, at the sale barn.

Take what I, you know, I don't,
I don't consider selling at

the sale barn marketing cattle.

I just, I, that's more of a disposal,
that's more of a disposal thing for me.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

You're taking whatever

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: You
know, I'm not setting the price.

I'm just taking, you know, and so that's,
that's not marketing, I don't think.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Right.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: We did sell,
we did sell a handful of finished steers.

I actually, they, they
were heifers, but Yeah.

Or heifers, whatever.

We finished cattle to a, a, a private
meat company because we were getting

quite a stockpile of meat here and
we were needing a little cash flow.

So we did do that.

Well, we were, yeah, we were
starting to get back up bit.

Yeah.

That, that was a little interest.

That was an interesting experience.

But I don't, I don't know.

We, we really need to focus on
getting our meat business built,

so, and our shipping built.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: But as
we talked earlier, there's only so many

hands and so many hours in a day, so,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: if, if I
could kick the sleep habit, habit,

I could get a lot accomplished.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

I really like to sleep though.

One of my.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh.

Well, I'm gonna tell myself just
a little bit, Bob, my whole life I

have been the one that loves naps.

I love to come in and
take a short nap, midday.

Now my wife says I'm crazy 'cause
I only take like a 25 minute nap.

But I love my naps.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

A good 15 minute one's
pretty hard to beat.

We were just talking
about this the other day.

My grandma, who was amazing
would lay down on her couch and

she would hold, can't remember.

I seriously doubt it was a full can,
but it was like a, a vegetable can.

And she would put that in her hand
and she'd lay down, and when that

can hit the floor, she'd get up.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: You know, as
you say, that didn't was it Einstein?

Thomas.

I don't know who.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Alexander
Graham Bell, someone held keys.

I read that they held keys in their
hand and whenever they, and they'd put a

plate under it, so whenever they relaxed

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Mm-hmm.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: hit
the plate and wake 'em up.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: I,
I need to look up who that

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356:
I have to set an alarm.

I'm not, actually, I'm pretty good about
waking up right before the alarm goes off,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
grumpy when noises wake me up.

I would have, it would have to be
something that was startled beer.

I'd be grumpy when I woke up.

I promise.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It doesn't really matter.

I mean, you got a cow magnet or
anything fairly heavy in your hand,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: But when
it falls outta your hand, you'll wake up.

The trick is, is it can't hit
the carpet because then you're

just gonna sleep for two hours.

No, but, but I can feel it
when it, when it falls out, I,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

You know, for some reason when it falls.

Is, is what wakes me up.

Oh, it doesn't have to make a noise.

Yeah, I need the noise, but I need
a little firm boot than you do.

But I gotta come in to do that.

That's the problem.

The problem is

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: I
get wrapped up in my day and all

of a sudden it's six o'clock.

And you haven't eaten, eaten.

I haven't had, I haven't had
anything since breakfast, so,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Well, I'm, I'm
pretty good about remembering to eat.

That's not something I miss too often.

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cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: With
your, your beef, your marketing

there is that grass finished

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: mm-hmm.

Yes.

Yep,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: yep.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: So at
what age are you striving to

get 'em ready for processing?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
Earlier every year.

Good answer.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: We have
boy, it's funny how that works but we'll

have some that'll be ready in 26 to 28
months, and then we have some that are 36.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
But we're real, we're real picky

about making sure they're finished

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
not just grass fed.

And so, mean, we bring 'em in and
then we look through 'em and we,

we don't necessarily go by weights.

We go more off the eye of, of,
you know, the tail head and the

brisket and all that stuff and, and
trying to develop an eye for it.

And, and we're doing pretty good job.

Our, our stakes are marbled up pretty.

And it's, you gotta have an eye for it
to know whether they're finished or not.

I would like to get it down to
26 to 28 months on all of them.

I don't know.

With this smaller frame, can you
see that marbling in that beef?

I'm trying to,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

Just, just barely.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: little
bit of glare, but yeah, we, it

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
Can you see that?

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: it's

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: See

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: marbling.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: that way

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: it,
yeah, turn it there a little bit.

That's pretty cool.

So yeah, it's pretty cool.

So yeah, I, I don't know.

We've been trying a few different
things, trying to speed the process

up and, and see we're trying to
make sure they have enough energy.

I think sometimes our grasses are high
in protein, but not very high in energy.

'cause we are south, we don't
have the grass they have in

North Dakota or Western Nebraska.

We don't have that good stuff down here.

So, we, this year we tried, we're
trying a little molasses alongside

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
and so we'll see how that goes.

We're.

You know, weaning weights
and everything that way.

So we're feeding it to everything.

We're feeding it to the cows and,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
and everything, trying to see,

but we don't have, we don't
necessarily have a finishing thing.

Last year we ran 'em separate.

This year we're just
running them with the cows.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, okay.

Well, my, my question was, next question
was gonna be about their forage.

Did you have any special
forage to put 'em on?

But if

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: No,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356:
them with everything else,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: no,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: pasture,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
no, we're not.

We're not.

And then, yeah, just, just the
diversity that we're making, just

by the way we're grazing, which
is getting better every year

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: and
diversity makes a world of difference.

You know, as long as they're
not just on a straight fescue

or straight something else.

As long as you got a pretty good D
diversity it's gonna be pretty good.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: It is a
little slower than I, than I'd hoped.

I mean, it takes a little longer.

Well,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: takes time.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: yeah, yeah.

The flavor profile is what has me though.

It's good stuff.

I mean it, you know, we used to,

we used to wanna, you know, go out and
order a steak or go out for prime rib and

go out order a hamburger or a steak
and you usually walk home or you

usually go home going, Hmm, I guess
we should have stayed home, you know?

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

Well, you know, and it's funny
because, you know, coming from

Nebraska where we were at and being
grain farmers and stuff, everything we

ate up there was all grain finished,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: and, and I,
we were back up there, where were we at?

Oh, we went out.

We were back up to visit some friends
and stuff at a, our nephew got married

and we visited some friends and we went
out and I had a prime rib Nebraska.

Beautiful.

I marbled perfect.

To me it was absolutely flavorless
compared to what we have.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
And we were, I mean, this place

was known for their prime rib.

So, I mean, mean, I mean we, you know,
so I, I just, I just have a tough time

eating beef out in the public anymore

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: after,
after you've eaten your, this stuff here.

So I, I was really surprised because,
you know, back in Nebraska, you, when

they said fed, you always figured
it was tough and it was and all this

stuff, you know, and, and we thought
the corn fed, it had to be corn fed to

get the flavor and the marbling and,
and boy the flavor is so much better.

I think, I don't know where, who
told me this or what it, what they

said, but they said in Europe.

That they don't consider an animal.

That's in your book.

It wasn't in a book.

It was in a book, yeah.

That I read and I don't remember
which book 'cause I, you know, but

anyway, three to five years old

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: is, is
what they, they won't even consider

eating anything younger than that
because there's no flavor to it.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah

I've heard that as well.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: you know, so
I don't really have a problem, you know,

I, I like 'em to finish sooner, but boy,
those three year olds taste pretty good.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: I,
I assume the reason you wanna

finish earlier is more a financial

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: than

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: That's it.

That's the only reason.

Yeah.

Cashflow.

You, it's not, it's not for the flavor.

Anything else is just for
turnover and cashflow.

Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: right?

Right.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: That, and,
you know, you've gotta have your backups

for your drought and all the things.

But really, I mean, overall as far as
a meat product, I couldn't be happier

with what, with what we have right now.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: I mean,
it's, we've got, actually, one of our

customers is on the East coast and he owns
his own grocery store and access, access

to whatever he wants in the grocery world.

And he orders meat from us
for his personal freezer.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, yes.

Yeah,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
and we've been to his store.

His, yeah, his store is, his
store is not, you know, your

average small town grocery store.

It is.

I mean, it's beautiful

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
it's, his meat quality is great.

They've got their own dry aging thing in
the back room, you know, so kind of, that

was a moment for us where I went, Hmm.

I think we might be doing
something all right here, so,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356:
that's that's definitely really

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

Now, I think a year or two ago, you
all did some testing on your beef.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yep,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: you
share more about that with us?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: sure.

We did a nutrient density test on
our beef through a program that we

were involved with at that time.

And we sent off one pound
of frozen hamburger to Utah

State which is Fred's old lab.

Stefan Van Wheat is running it now.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: And he
compared it to regular old ground beef

that you buy in any grocery store.

That was one control sample.

The other control sample was a
fed finished average, the average

average nutrients of that,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: of all
the animals that they have tested

that were grass fed, they have,
they had a, an average for that.

Mm-hmm.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yep.

So, so that's what, so comparable data on.

dough, ground beef to grass fed.

And then ours were the
three samples basically.

I mean, that's a very
non-scientific way to put that.

And ground beef we sent in was
when, before we started finishing.

Yes.

This was just average.

This was just one, this was ground
beef that was in the freezer.

This was just like, we just
grabbed one out of our freezer.

This wasn't something that we actually
Yeah, before, that was before the

meat program really kicked off.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: and it was,
you know, just processed with the local

processor right here, the whole nine yard.

It's not that that has anything
to do with the nutrient quality,

but it, you know, it was nothing
special is what I'm trying to say.

So that test result come back and
there's a ton of stuff, but the, the,

the impressive things on it are, are
the omega six to three ratio is really

close to wild caught Alaskan salmon.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: The
other one is the phytochemicals are.

outta that thing and your
phytochemicals, your precursors to

your vitamin A and things like that.

Overall the nuts and bolts of
the test came back that if you

wanted the same nutrient quality
in any hamburger that you would go

purchase, you would have to eat 2.7

of those hamburgers in order to match
the nutrient quality in one of ours.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: And, and
to be truthful, Cal, I, we were at a

point here where I, I mean, I really
thought there was something wrong

with me, you know, old age, whatever,
which, I mean, we're all getting

older, but old age where I was thinking

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: to the best

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: yes.

Right.

holy crap, something's
wrong with my stomach.

I can't even eat a whole
cheeseburger anymore.

I was actually full,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
you know, and now we've kind of

switched the way we eat around here.

I can eat a whole cheeseburger now, but
that's what I eat is a cheeseburger.

I don't eat a cheeseburger and
a side of whatever, you know?

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: so.

The idea to be full, like really
full, not just full and miserable,

but full is, it's a whole different
feeling in your gut, so Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: because you're
getting the nutrients you need and your

body realizes it's getting what's need.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

And it's

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: opposed to

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: when you stuff
yourself, the body's still wanting

more food because the nutrients have

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: have not been

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Like
eating a, eating a bag of Doritos.

Yeah.

It's like

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: you,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: and I've

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: you're
gonna pull out there and you get,

and you know, and you get done with
that and you're still hungry because

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Right.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
no nutrients.

Yep.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
though you're full.

Yep.

And

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Right.

I.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

That's, that's the analogy.

Yeah.

So

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: What?

What do you all think contributed
to your beef being so high?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
why it's, it's, it's work.

It's because of the of the soil.

Yep.

all comes from the dirt and, and I mean,
healthier soil, you know, the whole thing.

Healthier soil, healthier plants,
healthier animals, healthier food.

Yep.

And it's all starts with the soil.

If you don't, if you don't improve
your soil life, you're not gonna

improve your, the quality of your meat.

Right.

Well, and I'm gonna, I'm just
gonna throw it in here too.

When we moved onto this ranch,
you could have shot a snake

at a hundred yards anywhere.

This thing was overgrazed and
underutilized it was pretty much

a monoculture of SCU and his work
and dedication on these cattle,

which has been some sacrificial.

I mean, that's, that's been a
sacrificial act, you know, 'cause

other things have suffered.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: but
you go out there right now and you

can, I mean, the diversity is insane.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
We have a group of guys that

comes in, deer hunts here, he was
like, I wanna plant a food plot.

But he says, I don't
even know what to plant.

'cause he goes, I don't, I can't
compete with what you got going on here.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
Unless I force them into that

area where I plant a food plot, he
goes, I think it's a waste of time.

So it's, can tell you all he
wants about the soil, but the

soil didn't just magically happen.

The soil has been aided by his work.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: And
that's a excellent point.

It, the soil just doesn't get there.

with the way we've been treating soil,
gets there through management and

doing these practices like you guys are

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: it's
just, it's, it's the stewardship.

It's all about, it's all about giving
it a chance to rest and recover.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: I think
you answered this question.

I was about to say, if you could pinpoint
one thing, what was the one thing that

made the biggest difference, but maybe
just be that rest period that you just

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
that's what I tell people.

I said, I, they said,
well, where do we start?

I said, just make sure
you give it a break.

I, I said, and you know, I tell, I tell
people, I say, you, you, you probably

won't believe this, but on our ranch,
any given pasture is only grazed

about 10 days out of the whole year.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: And
people just say, they just can't

hardly wrap their head around that
I said, well, we move 'em around.

We're only on each one about five times.

And in the wintertime they're there
we graze it quite a bit shorter,

so they're there a little longer.

But like in the wintertime,
we do five acres a day.

Yeah.

You know, they're jam.

That's where we jam in and we get
our, our highest density is, is

then, but doing 10 acres a day now.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: But
we'll do five acres a day and,

you know, and, but we won't come.

We won't come back forever, you know?

So it's, it's just, it needs a chance
to rest and recover, where you get your

roots to develop and your soil develops.

And, and that's, that's, to
me, the rest period is probably

the most important part.

Well, your microbial activity too,
because there's so much more cover on

it to protect 'em from the elements.

So, even though, even, even though,
you know, I've had people come out here

and I said, well, I graze it really
short in the wintertime, you know,

and they come out there and they say,
well, crap, they're still, you know,

'cause they, they still trample a
bunch and you can't see dirt anywhere,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: even
though you're grazing the heck out of it.

There's nothing left.

It's really short.

But it, I mean, it's either
trampled or, or gone.

But it's not bare.

So you're, I mean, we're not, we're
not making bare soil that, and that,

that would bother me if I did that.

But so there's always cover and like this
time of year, even at 10 acres a day.

400 animal units out there.

I mean, they're trampling a bunch
and, they're eating a lot, but it

looks really nice when they leave.

I mean, it's, you got a good
trample effect in a lot of manure.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

What kind of rest period in
days are you, you targeting?

Or are you just looking at your plants
to decide it's ready for that next stage?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: We
don't really have, yeah, we don't,

I mean, it's, it's, it's kind of a,

I I don't really have a planned thing.

I don't even, to be honest with you, I'd
have to go look at my grazing records to

even tell you how long the rest period is.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: I
could, I couldn't tell you right now.

I, I would guess, if I had to
guess they're on right now, I

remember I was calving on there.

So it was, it had to be April 1st of May

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: of the last
time I was right where they're at today.

So whatever that is,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: I that well,
yeah, and I don't, I don't, I don't really

plan around specific days or specific.

I, I mean, I did, when I first started,
I, I was, I had to make a round in 45

days, and that was what I was gonna do.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
bing, bing, bing.

And now, you know, if I, if I turn
'em into 10 acres and I go out there

and say, well, heck, there's, they
could stay there a little longer.

I will, I,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
I like to move them every day.

But if, if, if I'm not, if I
misjudged my paddock size and, and

there's plenty there I wanna graze
it farther, they'll say an extra day.

That's, it's not a big, you know.

That was the hard mindset
for this one over here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

'cause I'm, I'm an
analytical and everything.

Yeah.

Boom.

I, the first, the first times we started
out, I had the whole year planned out.

You know, and, and if it, if it didn't
follow that date on there, I'd, I'd have

to catch up or slow down or do something.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: I wasn't
carrying what the grass looked like.

They had to match my papers,
is what it had to match.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: right.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
And I don't, I don't even pay

much attention to that anymore.

You know, controlled chaos.

Yep, yep.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

I, I do think as you talk about when you
started, it was a little bit more set.

You had a calendar.

I, I, a lot of times think for people
just getting started, sometimes

they need that structure so they
feel comfortable to take that

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

I, I, I don't, yeah, I think it was
important for me, To have a structure as

to have a plan until you get a feel of
how it's supposed to look or whatever.

You know, because we didn't come from this
and, and didn't know anything about it.

It was all kind of new and tried
different things and you, and you,

the worst problem about it is you
don't know for a year whether or

not what you tried works or not.

You can't say, well, this, I
tried this, and two weeks later

you say, well, that didn't work.

Well.

You won't know in two weeks
whether it worked or not so

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: well.

I think the thing like for those people
starting out is they need to remember

that there's not a prescription for this.

is a recipe, but there's
not a prescription.

And so when you start learning how to
cook when you're a kid, you follow the

recipe or the instructions on the back of
the box or whatever, and when you decide

that that box of stuff could use a little
kick of garlic or some extra salt or some

extra pepper or a little extra cheese or.

Whatever.

And you gain confidence,
you build on that recipe.

But if it's a prescription that says
that you need to do this at this

time, at this, at this time, at this,
at this time, that doesn't exist

because each farm is, each farm in
each situation is so much different.

You know, so it has to be, you've
gotta give them some foundation

and then some confidence to go.

So recipe, not prescription.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

And I love that an analogy there.

Recipe versus

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: prescription.

Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: You
just bring that off top of your head.

Sometimes I come up with some,
some really, I, I kind of know what

I'm talking about once in a while.

That, that's good.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: we

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
remember that one.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356:
it, so we have proof.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
Well, thank you.

Yeah.

So I might, I might.

Even though I don't go outside,
I, I do live in this world.

Well, I know, I know.

You know what's going on.

I, I would be, be very confident
that you could you could handle it.

You know, Mike McGraw, the,
the bird guy has been out here

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
and did, did some of that.

And so, I mean, that
intrigues a lot of people too.

Is is the bird counts that we have here?

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: So have
you got the data back on that?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: yeah, we do.

It's Ann's got it someplace, and
I, we could probably send it to

you, but the nuts and bolts of
that is, is to Mike our area.

We should have about 40 to 45
different species of birds our area.

And when he did his survey
here, we had I think 65.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh wow.

Oh

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: so, birds?

Birds, yeah.

67.

67.

Okay.

So,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh wow.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: so we
have, we have a I mean we have like,

like the scissor tails and stuff
like, like that we're just on the

edge of the, we're 60 miles out of
their territory and we have scissor.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yes.

is there their territory

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
You, it's, yeah.

It's towards you guys.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Because
we have a lot of scissor tails.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

See, and, and we're not
supposed to have them.

Mm-hmm.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: So
somewhere between, somewhere between

Joplin and Springfield is there,
is there supposed to be where they,

I guess where they're supposed.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: I didn't realize

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yep.

So, but yeah, that, that, having
him out here was, was pretty good.

He's been out here
twice and it's been fun.

We've become pretty good friends with him.

So that was, that's been interesting.

That was super cool.

Like I told somebody the other day,
I didn't even know I cared about

birds until I cared about birds.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, yeah,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
You know, I just, having these,

it's, it's an adventure every day.

You go out there and you're
like, oh, or you hear the quail.

I mean, we've got so many quail this year.

It's insane.

I mean, I've heard, we could hear
quail everywhere on the ranch, but

right here around the house, you
go outside and it's like Bob White.

Bob White, Bob white.

And

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: well,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
yeah, it's crazy.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: hate to admit
this, I don't even notice it that much.

We, we've had Bob White here,
as far as I can ever remember.

Of course, we've always done some type
of managed grazing, except when we

dared, that was a little bit different.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Right.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: But like
this morning, dad was down here and

we were hooking up a trailer and he's
like, oh, did you hear that Bob White?

No, I didn't.

Sorry dad.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: I should
have been paying closer attention,

but I see them all the time.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

fun though when you start seeing the
species that you shouldn't see there.

I mean, even I mean, we, indigo
buntings are so prevalent this year

and normally, this time of the year,
I don't see a lot of cardinals.

They're primarily my
winter visionaries there.

And this year we've got, we have
cardinals that are, it's just nuts

how many birds are here this year.

It's absolutely crazy.

So I had a Mike Grotto stick in my
pocket and I could just carry 'em

around and have 'em count birds, but.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: I mean,
it's, I'm sure there's an app for that.

There is an app for that, but it's
not nearly as much, much fun as Mike.

But you know, it's, I do.

Yeah.

Watching, watching him work
was just blow you away.

It's fascinating.

He'd just stand in the hill with his
clipboard and he'd just, he'd just listen.

Yep.

And just write 'em down.

Yep.

And he would, he had a little map where
he would say how far away he thought

they were and all kinds of stuff.

It was crazy.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: It was neat.

It was, it was really
neat to watch him work.

Yeah.

That was a, that was a once in a lifetime.

Well, hopefully not once in a
lifetime, but that was a, that was a

lifetime thing, watching him do his,
do his work and he's so passionate.

You just can't help but catch
the fever when he is with you.

So,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: I've become
the old lady with all the bird apps.

I've got two or three bird
apps on my phone, so I'm out

there going, you know, so,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
but I love it.

I mean, it's, it's fun.

It's, that's a little bit of a pat on
the back, I think, from the creator that

says that we are doing something right.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah, yeah,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: So I, I
really get a, I get a charge out of it.

So

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: De depending
on how far you wanna go down the

bird, the birding rabbit hoe.

There's a podcast called The Science
of Birds, and I really, I can't,

Evan Evan, the Ivan Ivan something
he does a really good job with that.

If you listen to a podcast.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
we do, those are when we travel.

Yeah.

When I travel, that's, I can't do
it when I'm working because I get

caught up in it and I want to take
notes and then work doesn't get done.

And.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

Well, I have not figured out the answer
for taking notes during with podcasts,

except I was told the other day about an
A app that lets you tap it and it records

little bit before and after, and I don't
know if it transcribes it or what, but

I'm gonna have to look into that app.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
I, he's my app.

Well, we try, I drive, she drives, and
I, and I sit there with the clipboard and

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, yes.

Yeah.

Oh, very good.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

So that's how that works.

He's, he's my app.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

As you all think about the next few
years, where do you see your ranch going?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
That's a very good question.

That's a very good question.

That's a very good question.

We've been trying to figure that one out.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

I'll be, I'll be 70 next year.

So, so we have a few things in mind.

So we're, we're just trying to
figure out where to go from here.

Execution of said
thoughts are a challenge.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: We have not
been the greatest visionaries in planning.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356:
Planning's difficult for

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356:
families it seems.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah,
well, yeah, especially since we left

all our family and moved 500 miles away,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: so
we have no family here either.

But no, we we're just we
have a, we have a lot to do.

We have a, a fairly good sized
operation and we would, I, we need to

get it a little smaller somehow, but
I dunno how, I don't, I just can't

wrap my head around how to do that.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
But we're making some plans and

we're feeling some things out.

You know, there's, there's an
age difference between Bob and I.

There's 11 years between us.

my biggest thing is, is
that I don't wanna be

the lady that says,
man, I wish we would've.

And we sure could've,
and we sure should've.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: you know,
we wanna do some traveling, we wanna

do some sightseeing, and we need to.

This year was our 30th
wedding anniversary.

to survive 30 years in a marriage
anymore is, you know, that's

kind of an accomplishment.

But it takes work and it still
takes work even after 30 years.

And we all know that the life we lead
doesn't, isn't always conducive to

supporting your marriage all the time.

Because you do tend to, you know, you
have to divide and conquer and you've

got to split duties, and you can't
always, and for us, we work together

really well when we're together.

We don't work very well independently.

So we need to get back to a point
where we can do things together.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Mm-hmm.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
And that's, that's what we're

striving for at the moment.

So whether we diversify
into, you know, if we would.

Sell pieces and parts and
diversify our portfolio with

other income producing properties.

You know, whether that looks like,
you know, vacation rentals or, or

I, you know, I should, who, who
knows, who knows what we're gonna

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356:
You're, you're exploring your

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
exploring options, trying to

figure out what we can do.

And we're getting closer every single day.

Yeah, we're, but you know,
we're on the same page.

We just, him and I are on the same page.

We just don't know how to get to you.

The, we don't, we don't know what the,
we don't know what the next page is,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
or what even gonna look like.

So, but we'll, we'll get there.

It's, it's coming.

Yeah.

I mean, we, we, we love what
we do and we love where we are.

And we are, but, but we are tired.

Yeah.

You know,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: I'm tired of
working six days a week, sometimes seven.

Well, yeah.

It, it's just, it's, it, it is a lot.

And, and.

But it's like I told the guy
the other day, I said, you know,

I've seen what differences, the
way we graze makes a difference.

And I said, there's no way that I could go
and, and not do this, and still have cows

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: and
say, okay, I'm just gonna turn

the cows out and I'll come back
next week and see how they are.

You know, I, I just couldn't do it.

So either I'm gonna get completely out if
I don't want, if I can't do this anymore,

I gotta get completely out because I
can't go back and do it any other way

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Right.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
it, to me, that's just not right.

You know?

And, and it's not.

And, and he wouldn't be happy and.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Right, right,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Happy.

I mean, you know, I, the happy
wife, happy life thing applies

all the way across the board.

Happy Spouse.

You know, it, it started,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: right.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: it all
started with, with Thes, and I love

the, and I did this with the, but now
it's more about the soil and the plants

and the birds and everything else.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: species

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: It's
not really about the cows anymore.

It really isn't.

It, it, it's more about stewardship.

Stewardship, you know, we always say
that, you know, the good Lord put us

down here and this land has been here
for, you know, thousands and thousands

of years, and we're here for this little
snippet of time and we are trusted to

take the best care of it that we can.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: can't do
that the way I think it needs to be done,

then I can't, I shouldn't do it at all.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: So

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
that's where I'm.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: let some
someone do it that that's able to Yeah.

It, it's a hard transition.

My dad is 76 and he can't do
as much as he'd like to do.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Okay.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Of course.

So he has me as labor

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: and I, I tell
him, you know, shouldn't we have another

generation doing this hard stuff now?

But,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
you probably should.

Yeah,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: but that's
not the way it's working right

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: right.

Yeah, I, yeah, I understand that.

So,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: yep.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: and Bob, it
it, it is time for us to transition to

our famous four questions, same four
questions we ask of all of our guests.

The South Pole Grass Cattle Association
invites you to the 17th annual South

Pole Field Day and cattle auction
happening September 19th and 20th, 2025

at Heifer Ranch in Perryville, Arkansas.

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This event features educational talks
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That is south pole.com.

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cal_4_07-25-2025_131356:
Our first question.

What's your favorite grazing
Grass related book or resource?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Oh my gosh.

As I look around my office,
it's jammed full of books.

Oh, I, yeah, the favorite one.

Stockman Grass Farmer is
a staple in our world.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: That's
the one that everybody fights over.

over, you know what I mean?

That's the one that's
like, are you, you know?

Yeah.

Very seldom do I sit down and read
a whole book, to be honest with you.

But pretty much the, the Stockman
Grass Farmer gets read pretty much

cover to cover what every time.

Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: You know,
just because there, you know, my attention

span isn't as long as it used to be.

So nice.

Short articles really work good for me.

But gosh, there's been all kinds of stuff.

Yeah.

Man, Cattle and Veld was Good,
was a very good book in our world.

Trying to think what else we got.

There's a, there's a

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: biblical
book that we've got to, and I can't

think of the name of it, or even where
it's at to go grab the name of it.

But it talks about the
relationship between caretakers

of the land and the Bible.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
it's a bright blue book.

You'd think I'd be able to
spot it if it was up on the

shelf, but I know where it's,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: tell you
right now, if you're looking for a

book, you're not going to see it.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: I have these
books behind me and someone will

mention a book and I'll turn around.

I cannot find it.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Soon
as the podcast ends, I look

over and right there it is.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: So, yeah,
I mean there's, we do a lot of learning.

We did, well when we started out, we did a
lot of learning through our grazing group.

We've got a really good grazing
group here in the Ozarks.

It's called Top of the Ozarks.

And we did a lot of peer
to peer learning that way.

So Steve Freeman, I'm, I'm sure you
know that name he he heads that up.

But I'd say between man cattle
and be and Stockman grass farmer.

Those have been two of our studies.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: And those
are both excellent resources.

I was just telling someone the
other day, my subscription has

lapsed to the stockman grass

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
We better fix that.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356:
because ID want it to

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Mm-hmm.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: but because
they send me a NA letter and I

gotta get on and do something.

I'm like, just renew it automatically
so I never have to think about it.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yep.

Yep.

that mine just came up too.

I, I did it for two years because I
figured that be easier that way, right?

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: I agree.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yep.

Because otherwise I'm gonna
turn around and have to do it

again tomorrow the way it seems.

Way the time flies.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

Our second question, what's
your favorite tool for the farm?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Favorite
tool does that include High tech redneck?

Oh gosh.

I am gonna say what my favorite
tool is because you don't

complain near as much anymore.

What's that?

My favorite tool is, is when he figured
out how to roll a quarter mile of

poly wire with his drill and a bracket
that he made for the side by side.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yes.

That's my favorite tool because now
he doesn't come in and go well that,

reason for that was is when we had,
when we had our goats here, we had,

we were moving goats every three days.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: A
lot of poly wires and, and we were

keeping 'em in with two poly wires.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, very good.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: But
you had to move 'em on the third day,

otherwise they'd move themselves.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: And we
would go around 40 acres with two wires

all the way around the whole thing.

So that's eight reels

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: you
go to do rolling up eight reels.

That's, that's a job.

So I said I got eight.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: would be,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: I gotta
figure a better way of doing this.

So I, I flipped the reel
upside down and I made a, a bar

that fits on my side by side.

And then I took the cap off of one
end of the thing and I, I made a

deal that fits over that square
notch that fits in my drill.

So

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: drill.

Yeah.

My, so I carry around a DeWalt
drill with me everywhere I go.

It's in there in my side
by side all the time.

And I use the, the white
handles with the hook to kind of

guide the wire back and forth.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: I hold
the drill with one hand and I guide the

wire with the other one, and I can roll
up a quarter mile pretty darn fast.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: it's, and,
and it's, it's pretty easy on the arms.

It's, it's tight.

It's tight too.

And, and it's tight.

And, and the, and most of my
reels, I've actually added.

Because if I'm angle it all going across
a quarter mile, it's gonna be too short.

I actually, most of my reels
have more than a quarter mile on.

So it's gotta be good and tight

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yes.

To get it all

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: to get it
all on there without it the next time

you come in to having it all fall off.

So, and the drill does a good
job of keeping it tight too,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: because
you're dragging it all that way instead

of walking and keep and having it loose.

Another thing that, that I used
extensively was CARES EDU program

from the university to Missouri.

a mapping program.

It's a map program.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356:
it's a mapping program.

Oh, okay.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: So
you can go put your address in,

you can go and you can draw on it.

All your pastures, it's like a
Google map, but I don't know if

Google Maps does this or not.

It probably does.

Google Earth does do it, but yeah, it's,
but but anyway, I would draw, draw on

these, and then I'd print these out.

So I've got a stack I could show
you back there in the, don't.

But there's a stack about, stack
about this thick of papers, pastures

with three or four different
ways of having them split up.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: So
don't have to go back and rethink.

I just need to go back and they're
all in there and they're all numbered.

And so I just go in there and I look
through and I say, well, this time

I'm, I want to give 'em 10 acres.

Next time I want to give 'em eight
acres, or if I want, give 'em five acres.

And I've already got it drawn up
so I don't have to redraw it up.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: So you don't
have to go sit there and say, well, where,

where does the fence need to go this time?

Versus, you know, could I do it?

You know, I could do it,
but it just saves me time.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Right?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
don't have to redo it.

And I don't always put the wires
in the exact same spot every time

anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

But they're close.

And if you really wanna get to the gnats
rear end you can, you can measure on this.

And, and then with the GPS that, that
I have in my rig, I can actually go

along the fences and I can mark it out
and I can have it exactly the number of

feet that it said it was supposed to.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yes.

Yeah

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
I think if we were gonna make a

recommendation to somebody for what
tool that they would need, if they

had very many acres at all, they need
some sort of utility vehicle though,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: whether
that's a side by side, which are,

yeah, four wheeler or something stupid
expensive, but a four wheeler or

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: are.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: you know,
a, we've got an old geo tracker that lays

around here that gets used on occasion.

I mean, just that you could
go in the pasture with.

And if you hit a rock,
you're not gonna cry.

So, you need some form
of a utility vehicle.

So yeah, those are probably our favorites.

Yeah.

Yeah,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Our third
question, what would you tell someone?

Just getting started?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Pray legit.

No, seriously.

I mean, you've gotta be connected
to, in my opinion, you need to be

connected to some sort of higher
form in order to do what we do.

Because you are dealing with nature.

There is no, is there science?

Yes.

At the end of the day, science isn't
going to bring you a lot of comfort if

you've just buried your favorite cow,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Or
you've, you know, just watched

your, and it doesn't, that applies
straight across the board for me.

I mean, I just told this
story the other day.

got a picture of when we used
to live back in Nebraska.

It was one of the very first
Instagram pictures I did.

There was a beautiful sunset.

got down on my hands and knees and there
was this cornrow of these little teeny

tiny baby corns with the irrigation
pivot sitting in the background.

So it was artfully composed and beautiful.

10 days later, I went to the same spot.

Corn was completely
decimated from a hailstorm.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: know,
the, they, if you are not connected to

some sort of higher power, it's really
hard to get through those moments.

That's my piece of advice.

My, that's a little more topic, I
think, than what you were probably

looking for, but I'll let Bob go now.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: That's great

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

I, I'd say you're gonna make mistakes,
but don't let it get you down.

Yep.

Because,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: No.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
Mother nature's a lot more resilient

than you give her credit for.

And you think you, like you said,
like you said earlier, you know, you

thought, boy, I really screwed this
up, but they were in there too tight.

It rained and they made a
whole, they looked like I

dissed it or whatever, you know?

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: But
yeah, don't be too hard on yourself.

You know, you do the best you can with
what, with the information that you

have and, and go with it, you know,
and you can't go backwards with it.

You can't, you can't beat yourself for
what happened, you know, don't beat

yourself up for what happened yesterday.

You know, make adjustments and
move forward and go with the flow.

I mean, if they go through the poly wire
and they're in the next one, and you say,

well, this just screwed everything up.

This is just terrible, you know, in two
weeks, it's not gonna make any difference.

Yeah.

You know, so, you and if, and, it
doesn't have to be the prescription,

like we said, you know, if, if there's
something going on in your life that's

more important than moving cows.

Give them three days worth.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: right.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: know,
if you gotta, if you wanna go and,

and spend the afternoon on the lake
and don't wanna have to move cows

the next morning, for heaven's sakes,
do that because, you know, probably

can't do that every day, you know?

Yeah.

And, and you know, that's what I tell her.

I said, you know, most days I can
say, okay, well if I don't wanna move

cows tomorrow, I can figure it out.

Some days I can't do that because they
have to go across the road or something,

and they're gonna be outta feed.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
gonna have to move them or I gotta

move them early or something.

you can fudge around and make it, and,
and it's not, it's, not a prescription.

There is a recipe and you wanna
follow the recipe as close as you

can, but you can fudge with it.

Yeah.

Well, and just don't forget that you
have a life outside the farm either.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: that's big.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: important to

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
Because we did that for a long time.

We didn't have a life outside the,
our Saturday night dates back in

Nebraska let's go drive 40 miles
and check the cows, and if we're

lucky, we'll stop at the bar
before they close and grab a crappy

cheeseburger at 10 o'clock at night.

don't forget you have life, and don't
forget you have a family and you

know, just, and grace, grace is huge.

Give yourself some grace.

it's, and it is easy to do, to get
wrapped up in it and, and think

that, you know, you, you have to
do this or you have to do that and,

you know, have to anything really.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
mean, when it comes right down to

it, you don't have to do anything.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: You do the
best you can and that's what I, you know.

We came, we come down here, you know,
and I don't, you know, I'm not gonna

look down at anybody that's been here.

Even if they don't, you know, I, if
I don't agree with their practices or

whatever, because most, all the, you
know, nobody sets out to do a crappy job.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Right.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: You
know, you're not gonna say, oh, I'm

gonna go out there and I'm gonna see
if I can abuse this today just because

I don't wanna do it a different way.

Well, everybody, I, think everybody's
trying to do the best they can

with the knowledge they have.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Right.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: And
our saying is, you do the best

you can until you know better.

And when you know better,
then you do better.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yes.

Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: If you don't
know any better, you can't do any better.

So,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: and on
that note, the pursuit of education too.

I mean, we are, that's how you
said you're always learning.

I mean, we're really good friends with
Burke, tyer and Burke told us a long time

ago, he said, learner a lifetime learner.

And that's really stuck with us.

We try to learn something new every day.

Sometimes we learn things we don't
wanna know, but we try to, you know,

we try to learn something on the daily.

that's a, you know, a bit of trivia
or you learn a new grazing practice

or you learn a new software program,
or you learn something, you've

gotta learn something on the daily.

So,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, yes.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: And
sometimes learning means, okay, today

I learned that I need to rest today.

So that's, you know,
can come in many forms.

It doesn't always have to come out
of a book or a podcast or a, you

know, magazine article or whatever.

Sometimes it's listening, learning to
be wise and listen to yourself, so,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yes.

Yeah.

Tons of excellent advice from
both of you all kinds of things,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: right.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356:
but excellent advice.

Our last question of the famous four,
where can others find out more about you?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: So
our website for the ranch, which is.

Lovingly not maintained very well
at the moment because there's

only so many hours in a day.

Our website for the ranch is
www.clearspringingranch.com.

Our meat business is
www.fivefivecoyote.com,

which that's a combination
of our cattle business.

And then the guy that we
partner with his ranch.

So,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: We
were 55 cattle company with our

cows, and he was Coyote Creek Ranch.

So we made 55 Coyote, and
that's our meat business.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, okay.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
so those are two ways.

All of our emails and phone numbers
and everything are on our website,

so they're welcome to call.

Welcome to text social media.

We've got a, a Facebook
page for the ranch.

got an Instagram.

But we're pretty busy and I don't do a
great job of keeping all of that updated.

So if you really have a
question, a burning question.

Send me a text you can send Bob a
text, but he's probably not gonna

answer it because he never has service.

So, send a text, send an email
give us a call, whatever.

Just be patient if we don't
get right back to you.

'cause it, it, it's a lot some days, so.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: yeah,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: and
there's, there's so many avenues for

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Right,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: to contact you.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: right.

Facebook messenger works
really good too, so.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yep.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: I know sometimes
I'll get a message on the podcast and

I'll be like, and then I can't find it.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Mm-hmm.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356:
I know I saw it pop up.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Right,

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Where was it?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: gotta
figure out where, what avenue

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: through.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: right.

Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yep.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: One last
thing to wrap up for today, and

that's, do you have a question for me?

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
What's your favorite grazing tool?

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356:
My favorite grazing tool?

I'm, I'm gonna go very unoriginal.

You know, a geared reel with polywire
gives us such capability and we

can't do what we wanna do without it.

Or you can't even come close to doing
it without spending lots of money.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Mm-hmm.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356:
To do it any other way.

Now that may be changing with this
virtual fencing, but I, I have to

go with geared reel and polywire.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

The virtual fencing, you're still
talking about lots of money.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah, yeah.

You still are.

Yeah.

And you can get you a, a geared reel
filled with Polywire, what, $150?

Somewhere in that range?

And you can, you gotta get an
energizer too and get a good one,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: get started
not too bad and start making a

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Great.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: I
hate to really even answer it

that way because just so basic.

But I really think those are just so,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: You know?

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: so important.

And if people would just embrace 'em and
try 'em, they could make some difference,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, it all starts with that.

You're right.

If you didn't have that,
you couldn't do any of it.

Right.

At at least the way
we're, we're managing it.

Yeah.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Right.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yeah.

So

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Ann
and Bob, really appreciate you

coming on and sharing today.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: thanks.

We appreciate you too.

So, I, well actually both of us
will be at the South a field day.

If anybody wants to chat I will be
in the Southeast South Bowl ag Boost

booth and Bob won't be too far away.

So if anybody wants to
chat, we'll be down there.

will be at Farm Fest, same booth.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh,

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356:
in Springfield.

In Springfield.

You know, so, just come holler at us
if you guys ever wanna chat, and, and

hopefully we get to see you in September.

And we'll go from there.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: Oh, very good.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Yep.

cal_4_07-25-2025_131356: I plan on
being at both of those things too.

demerath_1_07-25-2025_131356: Sweet.

I hope you enjoyed this conversation
with Ann and Bob as much as I did.

I have been talking with them
and we've been trying to get our

schedule to match up for a year
or two now, and, and we get busy.

So it's a little while and I get back
in touch and we finally got it to work.

So I was so glad to have them on to hear
about their journey, uh, deciding to move

across the country and get started in a
grazing program and how they advance their

knowledge and what they're doing there.

Two things that stuck out at
at me, and one of them wasn't

even something we talked about.

They just barely mentioned that.

But first, having the bird guy come out
and do a survey of birds on your place.

That is so fascinating and
provides such data to you.

Uh, I recently purchased, and I
was looking at it earlier, Birds

of Oklahoma books, so I can be more
educated on the birds I see in my area.

I, I know we, we talked about
scissor tail fly catchers.

Often I have 'em sitting on my
driveway fence and I love seeing them.

So I'm going to try and be
more aware of the birds and I

encourage you to do the same.

What birds are you seeing?

I don't know that I'll go as far as
keeping a list or anything, but I am going

to try and be more aware and more present.

The other thing that Ann and Bob mentioned
that we didn't even talk about that

as I'm reflecting on the episode, I'm
like, why didn't I talk about this?

They have some business partners running
some other animals on their place.

Some.

Uh, pigs and sheep and doing different
things, and that's a interesting way

as they are focused on the cattle, but
they're able to help have a partner

come in here and do some things.

So that was something I
should have asked them about.

Maybe we can have a future episode
when we can talk about that more,

but that's what stuck out to me.

Uh, let me know.

What did you take away from this episode?

And also, while we're on the
topic of this episode, we talked

a little bit about South Poll.

We're gonna have a couple more episodes
about South Poll cattle, so I help

you tune in and listen to those.

I.

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