Grazing Grass Podcast sharing Regenerative Ag Stories

Cal: We'll get started with the fast five.

What's your name,

Ernie: My name is Ernie Mathis.

Cal: and Ernie, where are you located?

Ernie: I am in northwest Georgia
a town called Rising Fawn.

We're about half an hour southwest
of Chattanooga, Tennessee.

Cal: Oh,

Ernie: right where Alabama,
Tennessee, and Georgia touch.

Cal: Oh, very good.

And what's the name of your farm?

Ernie: Hey, our farm
is Iron Root Pastures.

Cal: I, I, I ought to
add a question in there.

How did you come up with the name?

Because I think that's really interesting.

We may have to cover that in
a little bit, but what species

do you graze on your farm?

What livestock species?

Ernie: do a grass fed dairy raw milk.

We are raising beef
cows for eventual sale.

We do pasture raised broilers,
pasture raised turkeys pasture layers.

And then hopefully here soon we'll be
doing rabbits and we always try to find

another reason to add another species.

Cal: Yeah.

You know, it's like, oh, I went
to bed and I wasn't completely

tired and I'd love to be worn out,
so let's add another species in

Ernie: Yeah, I'm exhausted, but
it's addicting to see how many

animals you could put on here.

And if somebody's buying it, it only
makes another reason to sell it.

Cal: Yeah.

No, I, I, I get that.

And what year did you
start grazing animals?

Ernie: started in 2023.

Cal: Oh,

very good.

So just a couple years in.

Yeah.

Ernie: yeah.

We bought the farm in 2023.

Cal: Welcome to the grazing grass podcast.

The podcast dedicated to sharing
the stories of grass-based

livestock producers, exploring
regenerative practices that improve

the land animals and our lives.

I'm your host, Cal Hardage and each
week we'll dive into the journeys,

challenges, and successes of
producers like you, learning from

their experiences, and inspiring
each other to grow, and graze better.

Whether you're a seasoned
grazier or just getting started.

This is the place for you.

Ranchers, farmers and landowners,
if you're looking to optimize your

grazing operation and boost your bottom
line, Noble Research Institute can

help the noble approach to education
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For 10 seconds about the farm,
I have a confession to make.

In fact, I talked to Lee from episode
94, I believe last week, and I.

Was telling him about my dilemma, said I,
I have to tell you, my listeners about it.

For the last few weeks I've
talked about my energizer that

I don't know what's going on.

I was getting voltage out of the
ground side and the fence side.

I added a few ground rods because I
felt like I was a little light on it.

And then.

Due to my fence, not pushing enough power.

I had my dad's cows getting out.

My cows still respect it.

Uh, they've been trained really well,
but my dad's cows just would not stay in.

That caused me to move the cows
and actually get 'em in a situation

where I didn't have to use the
electric fence and use some of our

permanent pa permanent paddocks.

So I go up there just the other day,
I'm like, I'm gonna figure this out.

And I go to the energizer and I trade
out energizers and I have the same

thing happening and I test it and
I'm losing lots of apps amps one way,

and I know I've got a poly wire off that
I thought, well, I'll go down there.

But the other thing is there's
a pond there and it goes across

the pond, and I've checked when
I've been up there before to make

sure it's not going in the water.

And to be honest, it's hard to see.

It's on the far side of the
pond, but whenever I'm up there I

felt like it's not in the water.

It's fine.

Well, the cows, I had a pole
on top post on top of that

pond dam that had knocked down.

It couldn't handle the force
on it, and it was laying over.

So I walked over to get that, and that
got me on the side that I needed to look

where I could look at the wire closer.

And it was underwater.

My wire was underwater.

So when I got that fixed, um.

I'm running 10 K on my fence.

In fact, I took a couple pictures
and thought I would post them online.

I don't think I did.

But yeah, so I got my goats moved up
there, got 'em in some electric netting

because my fence is hot enough now, so
I'm able to, to go back to what I was

doing, doing it a little bit different.

I've got my cows back up there.

I've got dad's cows
going through his place.

Uh, and I moved some sheep and goats
up on the, on that place as well.

Anyway, the moral of the story is to
check your fence all the way through.

Even if it's always never been a problem.

If it's never been an
issue, check it anyway.

I was too trusting.

That's never been an issue.

It's never been in the water.

I couldn't see it very well,
so I thought, oh, it's fine.

I was wrong.

I was wrong.

Anyway, enough of that,
I got the fence going.

Uh, for 10 seconds about the podcast.

If you are in the business of
producing genetics that thrive

on grass, you're selling to
other producers, the grass-based

genetics are where you need to be.

Go to grass-based genetics.com

and sign up for your breeder listing.

And if you're in the market for some
genetics that thrive on grass, go

to a grass-based genetics and, uh,
contact those breeders listed there

because they're producing the type
of genetics you need in your herd.

Not very many is listed there.

But there will be.

So just keep watching it.

Uh, grazing Grass Resources, you know,
we launched that and I've told you,

go to grazing grass resources.com.

Please stop.

I say that because I can't
figure out how to fix that.

So it's working.

So if you go to grazing grass.com

and click on resources,
it'll take you there.

If you go to grazing grass resources.com,

it's broke right now, and
I'm trying to figure it out.

I think I have all the settings correct.

It doesn't seem to be
wanting to work correctly.

Anyway, I talked way too long today.

Let's get back to Ernie.

Cal: Let's jump back to the beginning.

Growing up, did you
think you'd have a farm?

Was that something you wanted to do?

Ernie: Absolutely not.

No, I I was very much growing up in New
Jersey, I was very much like a city kid.

Living in the suburbs.

There was farms around me, but it's
not something I wanted to do at all.

It wasn't, it wasn't until I got older
thinking about having kids, and we

were in metro Atlanta at that point.

We had a garden and we were
outgrowing the garden on the tiny

little quarter acre backyard or
eighth and acre, whatever we had.

And then, it was when we started
worrying about our health that

things started changing and we
started getting interesting in it.

So we did like a batch of
meat chickens in the backyard.

'cause we can, if we want pasture raised
chickens, I mean, you can go to Whole

Foods or any of the grocery stores and
get organic, but it's organic from a barn.

It's hard to find 'em pasture raised.

So as we got a little more strict
in what we wanted to consume, it

came down to growing it ourselves.

So.

It wasn't fast for us to outgrow
that tiny little backyard 'cause

we weren't allowed to have chickens
in there 'cause the ordinance.

But we hit 'em for the first batch and
then, and then COVID happened and it

was time to sell that house and get away
from all the crazy people in Atlanta.

Cal: Oh yes.

You know, having kids just change
your perspective on so much what

you're doing and how you're doing it.

And it really, it really causes
you to evaluate what you're doing.

Ernie: sure does.

Cal: So at the time, let's just talk about
that first batch of chickens because I

think there's a good story right there.

No matter where you are,
you can get started.

So.

So what was your thought pattern there?

Did you, how did you find out
the information you needed

and how'd you progress?

Ernie: we were basically, at that point
in time, we had it in our head that

we were gonna do, get a homestead.

It's what we wanted to do.

We were tired of the food we were getting,
and we wanna be more self-reliant.

And we didn't even have
kids at this point.

We just knew it was,
we were getting there.

And so for, we were watching
like Justin Rhodes on YouTube and

watching a bunch of farming vlogs
and Saladin and everybody else.

And then that's pretty much where we
learned how to do it first because.

Chickens are easy for your first batch.

I mean, so it was, we just got the
chicks and made like a little tiny

chicken tractor and it was only 10
chickens at first and just moving

around around our backyard once a day.

And it was, it was simple.

And then watched a couple YouTube
videos and how to process 'em

and process 'em in the backyard.

Somehow our neighbors didn't see us
doing it or didn't hear about it.

And that was it.

And we did the first batch of
chickens and then and then it was

time to find something different.

Cal: There are lots of Homestead
YouTube channels, so lots to pick from.

But Justin Rhodes, I used to
watch his channel a lot more

religiously than I do now.

I just catch it once in a while now.

But yeah, getting those getting started
and getting started with 10 chickens.

That's, that's enough that you can
try it and see, and you, you can

find out, do I hate the chickens?

Do I, is it something I enjoy?

Is the product something I would
be willing to, to raise more of?

So that's a great way to get started
on a small scale without going broke,

Ernie: Yeah, it was, it was really
easy 'cause it's not much food to

afford for 10 of 'em at that year.

At 10, we ordered 'em online, but
you could have just walked into the

tractor supply in spring and got 'em.

And then we built a tiny little
wooden two by four structure with

chicken wire on it because we
weren't worried about predators.

'cause we had a fenced in backyard.

Cal: Oh yeah.

Even

better.

Ernie: it was just moving them that way.

And then the biggest
hurdle was processing, but.

We, it wasn't that hard, just figuring it
out, making sure they stay cool and you

have a way to dunk 'em and, and wrap 'em.

Cal: Was there anything that you,
you'd watch those videos on processing?

Anything?

You all process, process those 10.

Was there anything that
surprised you about the process?

Ernie: I think it was gonna be more
intimidating 'cause I didn't come

from like a hunting background, so

Cal: Oh

Ernie: any live animal.

I thought it was gonna a little
bit more different, difficult

to do, and it was really simple.

Cal: Yeah.

I think chickens help that out because
they're not real lovable, to be honest.

I, I know there's some people
that love their chickens, and

I apologize, don't wanna offend
anyone with that, but chickens just

aren't real cuddly and lovable, so
it makes it a little bit easier.

Ernie: would have, it would be a
difference between processing a chicken

and then processing like your beef
cow or your dairy cow on the farm.

Cal: R right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So with those first chickens, you all
just did it for your own consumption.

How was that meet?

Ernie: it was great.

We couldn't complain about it.

It's different than the store.

And that set us further down
the path of getting a farm.

Cal: Yeah.

So what was your next step?

You said that was in COV, or not
in COVID, but right before COVID.

When did you all raise another set and
did you continue with small numbers?

Did you start expanding?

Ernie: it took us

probably about two years until
we did the next batch because we

sold the house in metro Atlanta.

We bought a rv.

Then we traveled around the US in
a RV trying to figure out where we

wanted to, where we wanted to live.

So we thought we were gonna end up in like
Montana, Idaho, big country out there.

And then we did fire season out there.

We did a winter, and then being
out there kind of changed how.

We would wanna farm 'cause you're gonna
have to put those animals inside in

the winter or you got a short season.

We already had some of my family
that moved down to Georgia from New

Jersey and it was like, nobody's
gonna come visit us out there.

Cal: Oh

Ernie: life gets away from everybody.

So we we were traveling around and
then we were looking in Nashville.

'cause at first we were looking
for raw land to build the farm

and build the house ourselves.

We had the rv, we renovated that.

We were living in it for two
years by the time we, we finished.

And then we found, we decided to look back
in Georgia again for some reason to, and

look for a house with land for a mortgage.

'cause it was easier
to get a loan on that.

Then we found the farm that we're
on, which is an old cow calf

farm that was, had just been out
of service for 10 or 12 years.

Cal: Oh yeah.

Now.

Hearing that you really followed that
Justin Rhodes model because he did that

great American farm tour across the
US and then decided to go back home.

You pulled something pretty similar.

You all went around and then went back
to where you were not in the exact area

where you were, but the same general area.

Ernie: Yeah, and it, it didn't turn
out, we didn't start off that road.

It was, we were still planning on being
in Georgia when we sold the house.

We just bought the RV renovated
so we could live in it.

Then it was gonna be
like a short vacation.

Go look for something while we're looking
on Zillow and trying to find land.

And as we're traveling, like,
well maybe, maybe Idaho.

This is

Cal: Oh yeah.

Ernie: here or Montana or
somewhere else, or Texas.

And as we're traveling through,
we ended up doing a lap

around the US like two times.

'cause we're seeing friends in
like Bend, Oregon and Texas.

And just finding a
reason to travel around.

And then as we're traveling around we're,
no, this really, really wouldn't work.

And then just figuring it out.

Cal: I, I think that
would be really appealing.

Now, my wife says that she, she's not sure
she can put up with me in that smallest

space, but there's, there's a lot to
it to be that's appealing about that.

How did you all fund that trip?

Ernie: So I have a construction company.

We work on cell cell
phone towers around the

Cal: oh yes.

Ernie: So at that point.

I pretty much had a lot of people in place
in to run the company, and I just did

everything that I could on the computer.

And then as we would come back to Georgia,
I would sit down and I'd park the RV

in the warehouse for a couple weeks
and then catch up on everything with

everybody, get everything where it's
supposed to be, and then we might leave

again for a couple weeks and come back

Cal: Oh yeah.

Ernie: to see family and, and just
kind of do it, handle everything

from the phone and the computer.

Cal: You know I, that's a great
way because a lot of times people

talk about doing stuff like that,
and I'm like, how do you afford it?

Of course.

You know, with the podcast
it's pretty mobile.

Wherever I want to do it, I could
Now, my, my sheep and goats aren't

so mobile, so that's a little bit

Ernie: No.

You'd be a big RV to
put them all in there.

Cal: I would, yeah.

So you all found this old homestead or
property with a old cow calf house on it.

What did it look like
infrastructure-wise when you got there?

Ernie: So it's about, it's a
total 2 25 acres, 74 in pasture.

It's kind of got a beat down
perimeter fence holes in some

spots, barbed wire, and a lot of
holes in, in spots not patched up.

There's not really many watering
spots on the, on the property.

Some old barns that they kept maybe have
kept the calf in or kept the hay in.

And then the house needed a
lot of work 'cause it was just,

the front walls were rotted.

A lot of the windows were rotted, so it
took a lot of work when we first moved

in, which most of it's still not done.

I fixed the rotten spots
and put a roof on it.

That's almost done.

But then the farm started taking off
and I had to divert all my attention

to that and just get the farm going.

Cal: It just takes time to to do that.

I remember, I think I was
probably a teenager and my dad

was trying to convince my grandpa.

To buy some land that adjoined his
property and my grandpa's like, no,

that's a lifetime worth of work there.

And you know, WWW, these
farms can be that way.

Even ours that we're here working on.

Sometimes I look around, I'm like,
there's a lifetime worth of work

here just to keep up with everything.

Ernie: it's been, it's been a lot because
there's always, with how fast we've grown

the farm, it's been a lot of labor into
it and figuring out what will work here.

'cause you could look at.

Like saying pastured broilers
or pastured layers coming up.

But there's so many designs on houses.

But what's gonna work here
because we're a little bit hilly.

And then in the winter time, or like the
winter time, it gets really windy here

'cause it just comes down the mountain.

And then we're in the valley, so we've
had chicken houses get flipped over.

Or like our broiler houses that
have taken off in the wind.

So figuring out.

How our next design's gonna work and how
to make 'em heavier or less of a kite.

Cal: Oh yeah, yeah.

Don't want those flying away.

How did you, or not how what did you get
started with first on the farm portion?

Ernie: It would've been broilers
were first, we got some layers.

I think we bought maybe
60 chicks for layers.

And then the first batch of meat chickens
were maybe 50 of them, maybe a hundred.

Cal: Oh yeah.

Ernie: and it was just to put
meat in our freezer at first.

And then at that time we
were processing on the farm.

And then Georgia got really strict
on their, their processing rules.

So I think it was like summer
of the first year we started

selling whole birds from the farm.

And then it wasn't too long until
we had to find a processor to

start processing the chickens

Cal: So what'd Georgia do on
those laws about selling meat in.

' Ernie: cause Georgia has so
many giant poultry farms here.

They made it so there was a thousand
bird exemption and that was it.

And then with that thousand
exemption you had to have.

A state inspected facility
up to a state inspected

Cal: yeah.

Ernie: requirements.

So it made it, they needed an indoor
facility, an indoor kill room.

Just made it unattainable for the small
farm until this past year they opened

it up to the 20,000 bird exemption.

Cal: Oh yes.

So when that came in place,
did you all find, were you able

to find a processor close by?

Ernie: Yeah, we use A-U-S-D-A
processor in Tennessee.

It's about a three hour drive for us

Cal: Oh yeah.

Ernie: the birds there.

Cal: With the increase and number you
can process per year with the new law.

Have you thought about coming
back to the farm to do it or are

you happy with the processor?

Ernie: it's absolutely
what we're gonna do.

It's just building the building
and, and funding it all.

So.

Hopefully for next year we'll have
something where something basic

set up that we can start doing
on the farm because we spend so

much money on the USDA processing.

Cal: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

I know I raised one batch here.

I was gonna see how we liked 'em, see
about selling them, but I wanted to take

'em somewhere and get 'em processed.

Just so I could see how this would scale
and stuff, and by the time I got that cost

figured into my price and my birds, I was
just like, I, for my area, I was a little

embarrassed to ask that much money for it.

Now, I, I think the market's there,
but it wasn't right where I'm

sitting, you know, have to go into
a farmer's market or something,

Ernie: yeah.

It's, it's intimidating for the pricing.

I think the only thing.

Part of it is 'cause we're in such a
niche of the kind of poultry we're doing

with the organic corn free, soy free
that people are willing to, to pay for it

'cause they can't get that anywhere else.

Cal: Oh yeah.

Ernie: completely open to, you know,
people seeing how they're raised and then

what, how much it costs us for everything.

Because it's hard for people to
believe that they cost that much

per bird to just get it processed
or the pigs or anything else.

Cal: yeah.

Well, you know, I think back to candy
bars and pop bottles or pop and think

it should be 50 cents and it's not.

I still have sticker shock every
time I go in a store and buy one.

Ernie: Yeah.

Cal: to stop buying those.

So with those, those first birds,
how'd you find that market?

Was it.

People, your friends really interested
in it, or how'd you develop that market?

Ernie: It was our, because we didn't
know very many people when we first

moved up here in this area, and we're
about two hours, two and a half hours

from where we were in Metro Atlanta.

So we started with doing drops
in metro Atlanta, where we

used to live and where our

Cal: Oh yeah.

Ernie: around there.

We're kind of patched in with like a
bunch of chiropractors that they're like

the new wave of of health because a lot
of people are going to chiropractors

and they're more eat healthy, have a
healthy lifestyle, lose the weight,

get off the, the prescription pills.

So it's helped us be involved with them.

So we do a drops at multiple
chiropractor's office and that are

all part of this Max Living group.

Cal: Oh yes.

Ernie: We do.

It's a biweekly drop.

Well, you were asking me
about the, how we started.

Cal: Well, yeah, but that,
that's still interesting because

I think that's a pro tip.

You just dropped on everyone right there.

You found where the, where
your ideal customer are

going and then you're basically
providing the chicken there

now.

Which, yeah, that's, that's a
really good thought pattern.

Have you done any farmer's markets or
has your model been along that line?

Ernie: We try to not do farmer's markets
'cause it just takes so much time.

We do one every Friday, about a half an
hour away in Mentone, Alabama, and then

once every quarter we do one that's like
three hours away in Beaufort, Georgia.

Cal: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Ernie: and that we do great
at those, those markets.

But.

It's hard to go to a market every
day 'cause the farm's too busy.

I can't afford to have my wife, Janet, at
the market all day, every day and need her

Cal: Oh yeah.

If she's not there working,
who's gonna get the job done?

I know you've got other things to do.

No.

Ernie: I got other things to do then
if she's there, I have to juggle the

kids doing chores and everything else.

Cal: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

So.

You, your first customers.

Just continue on that
path just a little bit.

Your first customers metro
Atlanta area, when did you start

building a base closer to home?

Ernie: So our first, we with the first
customers were to friends, people

we knew, and we were also going to
a chiropractor here in, in Trenton,

Georgia, and just advertising with
him and in his chiropractic office.

There's other people that were
looking for healthy food that weren't

getting it in this, this area.

So we started with that and it was a
couple customers there, and then that's

how we started getting involved in raw
milk because they were looking for it.

And we had one dairy cow and then
that spread and everybody wanted it.

So it worked that way.

And then we've grown from there.

Cal: So you were, when you got those
first chicks, you were doing some

broilers, you had got some for laying,
which obviously that takes some time.

So if I follow this correctly,
you had eggs eventually, you had

pasture poultry for sale, and then
they started asking about dairy.

Yeah.

And you all had already started
with a dairy cow for yourself.

Ernie: at first we got dairy goats
and that was gonna, we were gonna

do, we were doing milk goats and
then we just never did anything.

We never got a buck, so we
never got the do pregnant.

And then, and then I was just on
Facebook and we were thinking about

a milk cow, and then I found one, and
then of course he was selling more than

one, so I grabbed two because I was
figuring they had to be separate from

the beef cows and it need a friend, so.

Cal: Oh

Ernie: So we started with that and then
all, we had extra milk, so we were selling

milk and then it evolved from there.

And now we have not eight
jerseys that we milk.

Cal: Oh yes.

Yeah.

So let's, I am just thinking Arnie,
because I know we're gonna come back

and talk more about your dairy and
how that's done a little bit later.

So I'm not gonna ask any more questions
on the dairy right now, but we'll

be back to it in just a little bit.

Along that time, when
did you add pork and why?

Ernie: So we added pork shortly
after we started chickens, but we

got, they were basically piglets.

They were, they were a little bit
older, but we had, we bought a couple

Mana piglets and a Berkshire and
then grew them for us to consume

and then also to start the, the.

The pig side of it, of the things.

So it took a while for them to
grow out and then to get pregnant.

And then our first boar that we
had, he was, he didn't produce.

So it took a while until we
finally had our first set of

piglets on the farm to process.

'cause we didn't wanna
just get feeder piglets.

We wanted to farrow on the
farm so we can control.

What's going into them, what the
parents are eating, what the parents

are being, what's going into them.

And the same thing for the piglets.

So it was probably about a year until
we had started getting piglets, I think.

And then it takes 10, 8, 10
months for them to grow out.

So it was a while.

We finally, this past year, 2024 was the
first time we had started selling pork.

Cal: Oh yes.

And are you using, you mentioned Mag
Magnises, did you, are those your

sows or did you bring in any other

Ernie: Yeah, right now we have Mana
Sows and then a Red Waddle boar.

Cal: Oh, a red waddle board.

Ernie: it gives, because the man
takes so long to grow out, it's

mostly lard, so it's like a well,
well marbled meat, but they just

take so long to get the maturity.

So we added the red, the red waddle,
and tried that and they grow.

We were processing them 300 pounds there.

It's taking 'em eight months to
get there, maybe nine months.

Cal: Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Ernie: too long.

Cal: And you like the meat pretty good.

Do you, you see, continuing with
that pattern, using a Magis Sow and

a Boer, that's a little bit more
conventional, not, not that red Waddles

super conventional, but you know.

Ernie: Yeah, because the meat's completely
different than like we had one Berkshire

here and we crossed her with the red
wattle and looking at comparing their meat

together, it looks completely different.

Cal: Oh, yes.

Yeah.

Well, following along on the podcast,
you know, I've tried some pigs

with very poor success, and I don't
have an answer to my lifestyle.

Guardian dog in the pigs yet.

However, I still love the idea of
getting some pigs and I'm raising

some, and one of those discussions
has been a breed I've, I've kind of

shied away from mangoes or the Cooney
Cooney just because of the growth

Ernie: Yeah.

Cal: but I know that meat's
supposed to be really good.

Ernie: It's, they've been easy.

I guess the pig side of things has
been pretty easy 'cause we just

keep them in electric netting.

We don't have a dog with them
and I probably, 'cause we keep

the bo with them year round, that
we'll separate them occasionally.

But haven't had issues with
predators and the pigs.

Cal: Oh, very good.

Yeah.

And then now you mentioned something there
in talking about it was that diet that

you're feeding your animals, and you'd
mentioned it earlier with your chickens.

You're feeding non GMO organic.

No soy, no corn.

When, when you talk about that, that's
above and beyond what a lot of other

people are doing, do you find your
customers are really focused on that

and they really want that difference?

Ernie: There's a lot of people that
don't care about the difference.

They're just looking for the organic
fed forest race pork or patched pork.

But then we have a lot of customers.

That really are looking for that.

They don't want corn, they
don't want soy for allergies.

Or they don't want wheat.

Like our, a lot of our
layers are wheat free.

'cause we deal with so many

Cal: Oh yes.

Ernie: that for them it
comes through in the eggs.

So

Cal: Oh, okay.

Ernie: going so strict, it,
it's helped us with everybody.

Because a lot of the things we wanted
no corn, because from what we've read

and heard was that it changes the
consistency of the fat and the pigs.

So we started going down that
route and then just trying to

do healthier versions of it.

And then so we started feeding 'em
that, and then for our consumption,

and then just talking to everybody.

They also wanted that, it's been a big

Cal: Oh yeah.

And where are you able
to source that feed?

Ernie: We go to Kentucky.

Kentucky Organics is the only organic
feed mill anywhere around, so it's

about a three and a half hour trip.

And I'll go up there every other
week maybe to pick up feed.

So hopefully I think that this might
be our first batch where they bring the

bulk truck and fill us up here because
it's been with running so many broilers.

It's been driving up there.

They go through a ton of feed a week

Cal: Yes.

Yeah.

Well, and that really helps out if they're
able to bring it down in bulk to you on a

Ernie: Yeah.

Cal: Yeah, I you know,
I talked to my wife.

We were gonna do, we've talked
about doing some pasture poultry

again, raising some broilers.

And that's one thing we've talked about.

Do we wanna go that higher step
and do no soy, no corn, but

then where do we find that feed?

And I haven't gotten far enough into it to
research it because I'm not doing it yet,

but it has crossed my mind to do that.

Ernie: It's been, I think part of it was
that they offered a soy-free, corn free

feed already, so it was easy to do it.

And then on some of the stuff we've
modified to make it like wheat free or the

pigs, we just, we feed 'em a lot of their
portion is barley and their barley and

peas and, maybe some, I can't think of off
the top of my head everything that's in

there, but they'll, as long as whatever we
want, they'll mix whatever customer action

that we, that we, choose.

As long as we're getting 'em in like
one ton tilt totes and as long as

we're getting 'em in bulk, then they're

Cal: Yeah.

So when you were driving up
there getting it, were, were

you getting it in those big feed

bags?

Ernie: Yeah.

We started, when we were doing, when we
first started, we found them because.

The organic food from Tractor Supply
wasn't exactly what we were looking

for, and we started with that.

And then we found, there's other farms
around here that we, we found through

the chiropractor, other homesteaders
that were already getting it from

Kentucky Organics because they'll do

Cal: Yeah.

Ernie: like a bulk, a bulk drop.

So like they have a drop in Chattanooga,
they have drops throughout Tennessee

where they do like the beginning of the.

Beginning of the the month, they'll
have a drop at certain farms for

everybody to come pick up their
bags, but it's bag feed only.

So once we

Cal: Oh yeah,

Ernie: to totes to one ton, then we
had to drive up there and get 'em.

Cal: yeah, yeah.

And those, I think you
said they hold about a ton.

Ernie: Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's a big sack and
it holds one ton of feed.

That's all my tractor could pick
up, or else I might go bigger

because I do a two ton bag, but.

Cal: Oh, I didn't realize
they made a two ton bag.

We've used some of the
one ton bags years ago.

Ernie: Yeah,

Cal: Along this journey you've
added beef cattle as well.

How, what did you choose to go with on
beef cattle and how's that process going?

Ernie: we started with Belted Galloway
and it was kind of something my wife

decided she wanted to, as a dual purpose.

She wanted to milk them
and have 'em as beef.

But we never went down
that route with milking.

It wasn't something we
were gonna do on the farm.

We didn't have the time for it.

So now we still have the,
the belt of Galloways.

Probably gonna get phased out here
soon 'cause they do terribly in

the, the summer sun down here.

They just sit under the mobile shades
all day and then kind of graze at night.

Cal: It's kinda like me during the summer.

Yeah.

Ernie: don't blame 'em.

They're black and white and
that it's hot down here.

Cal: Yes.

So what do you think you'll use
in the future for beef cattle

as you try and find something a
little bit more heat resistant?

Ernie: I want to do something
where we can have, it works more

symbiotic with everybody else.

So instead of having the belted galloways,
and then the jerseys for dairy, right

now we're using the belted bull on the
jerseys, but I'd rather go something.

That's gonna do better.

So maybe like a south pole bull
or come up with a, a better

grass-based bull to cover over 'em.

And then keep, keep them for, for beef.

And then have a, a jersey bull too.

So we could do replacement heifers
for the farm and then, you know,

the bulls can go to the beef or some
of the girls can go to beef, so we

don't have to keep buying heifers.

Cal: Yeah.

Have you considered using like.

AIing and using sex semen
for the Jersey portion,

Ernie: It's gone through my head.

It's just another thing that I would
have to try to bring on and do myself.

Sometimes I'd rather do that because
then I'm not dealing with having a

bull on the farm and then him getting
out or trying to separate him from

the, the young heifers that are too
young to breathe that shouldn't be

breathing yet, that he wants to.

So we'll see.

But at the same time I kind
of like the idea of having a

bull cover than, than AI in

Cal: Yeah, and I get that.

The thing that concerns me, and this is
from my experience growing up on a more

commercial dairy, was dairy bulls get
mean, and jerseys are some of the worst.

Ernie: That's been a fear we had when we
started doing it was like, we don't want a

jersey bull 'cause we're worried about the
kids and we don't have like a separate.

Fenced in lot to put them in.

So like our delta gall
bowl, he's like a puppy dog.

He'll stay in single wire,
single wire poly and do fine.

Occasionally he'll get out if
somebody's in heat, but he respects

it and he just kind of meanders
about and he hasn't pushed too hard.

And you can walk right up to
'em and pet 'em do whatever.

But the dairy bowls have
always been a, a fear.

Cal: Yeah.

That, that's something you're just
gonna have to talk to who you're getting

it from and make sure about that.

Yeah, because that, that's
my initial concern as well.

With six semen, you can get the benefit
of having a few jersey calves your best

cows without the risk of a dairy bull.

Ernie: Yeah, and that may be
something that we could do just

another tool in the toolbox.

So we have a, like a beef bowl
that we can do live coverage for.

And then some of the girls we
could do in AI every once in a.

So that we don't grow the dairy too fast.

Cal: yeah.

And having sex semen really helps you out.

I mean, that's a, a marvel being
able to do that and 75% or 90%

of your CSB or should be heifers.

That's something I wish they
had years ago when we dared.

Ernie: yeah.

I'm learning about it.

It's crazy that you can pick it out now.

Cal: It is and, and it opens up such
opportunities, I think, for commercial

dairies in that they can decide how
many heifers we need, you know, work

backwards, how many we need to freshen,
how many will breed, and get back to the

point they're saying, well, we need to
breed X number of cows to this, and then.

All the other, then we need to allow a
few, if we want a certain time period, and

then the rest we could do beef over dairy
to get a higher sale price for those,

those calves that don't work in the dairy.

You know, I love abl Black Baldy
that's half hosting, half Angus.

You know, black Baldies, that's
Hereford Angus are pretty nice, but a,

a Baldy that's out of a dairy animal.

They can flat milk now, they actually
can get too much milk in there, but you

know, they make some really nice animals.

Those beef dairy crosses.

Ernie: Yeah.

So far our our belty jerseys have
they look cool 'cause some of 'em

have belts, some have partial belts.

They've all come out
black and white so far.

Cal: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

So, yeah, because your black gene is
going to be dominant and your belt

gene is dominant in the coloration.

Now with the, the belt gene, you
know, depending on your, your bull,

whether or not he's homozygous
for it or heterozygous for it.

But yeah, that belt's pretty,
and, and the belt gene is

interesting ' cause it doesn't
actually mean a full complete belt.

It can be a, just a little
bit of white up on its side.

I've got a half belted
Galloway, half South Pole cow.

And she's got, she's got a little
bit of white going up on her side, so

she's got the belted gene in there.

She just doesn't have the modifiers
to get it to the nice wide belt.

And she had a, a heifer kef
this year with that same

Ernie: Oh yeah,

Cal: It's, it's pretty cute at this stage.

Ernie: it's been cool seeing what
comes out with belts and how they look.

Cal: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Used to just going on that tangent a
little bit used to, I, I looked all over

for goats with belts because I thought, I
thought, well, I've just been fascinated.

Dutch belted belted Galloway lacking
veder chickens, you know, they have the,

the black tail and the blackhead and
white body, and you got hamshire hogs.

It's got the same type
of pattern I thought.

For a while as a teenager, young
adult, that's what I wanted to

farm, where all the animals had
the same color pattern, you know?

And that black with a
white belt was so cool.

Ernie: Yeah, it would look cool.

It'd be picturesque.

Cal: It, yeah, it would.

Yeah.

You mentioned earlier, well,
I was going to go to species.

You're going to add in the future you're
talking about, but I hadn't even talked.

You started turkeys in there as well.

Ernie: Yeah.

We started turkeys last
year for Thanksgiving.

We did 200 of them and then.

Cal: How did that go,

Ernie: It went well.

It was a higher mortality
rate than the chickens.

And in learning turkeys, they're
more of a grazing species than the

chickens, so just figuring them out.

But they're like little white
puppy dogs compared to chickens,

Cal: Oh,

Ernie: if they got outta their net,
'cause like a hawk came over and

spooked them, it was easy to just get
a person out there and just walk past

and hurt 'em back into the fence.

They're really docile and you just walk
up to 'em and do whatever you need to.

They're just like

Cal: Oh yes.

Yeah.

With were you using electric netting
with them and did you have some

kind of shelter you pulled around?

Ernie: We had a shelter for them at first.

We started with like enclosed, so we
did a pro progression of when we started

with the same thing with the broilers.

They were in poultry netting with
like a kind of an open house where

maybe there was a door we closed
and we still moved them every day.

And then we did the same
thing with turkeys at first.

We had them with a door that can,
they close 'em out at night, open

'em up in the morning, and then we'd
still move that structure around.

But they were getting hammered
by just one hawk the whole time.

They, they were in that, that
stage between chick or like when

we first put 'em out to when
they're up full-sized Turkey.

So then we put them in the.

They were like a 24 by 12 foot wide, like
a prairie sch style with a billboard tarp

on the side, chicken wire on the side.

And they were fully enclosed, but
then they were a little too crowded,

so they started attacking each,
the Toms would start attacking the

hens or pick on the, the weak ones.

So then we took the chicken
wire off, put 'em on.

By that time, they were big enough,
so we opened them up and then

put them back in poultry netting,
and they did fine that way.

So.

This year, our first batch of
turkeys comes outta the brewer

this week, this week or next week.

And we'll put 'em in the same
open style and then just put 'em

in a different part of the farm.

So hopefully we, we can avoid the hawks.

Cal: Oh yeah, yeah.

But you're gonna start
'em in that open side at

Ernie: Yeah.

Yeah.

'cause even with the broilers, we
went to like ENC fully enclosed

last year and it just made for.

It was easier than like pulling 'em.

Every day was easy 'cause they're all
enclosed and you're going in there,

but then they're in there, they're
not out just, I guess out free.

They're kind of

Cal: Right.

Ernie: and it was just messy getting
in there after you pull it out.

And then so we changed them.

Now.

Even the broilers or everybody's
out in poultry netting.

Our little hoop structure have gotten
a little smaller in length, and then

just open so they can get under there
for the shade, food and water, and then

kind of do a little bit more grazing
and chicken stuff or Turkey stuff.

Cal: Oh yeah.

Yeah, you mentioned adding rabbits to it,
so obviously you've already got a lot of

irons in the fire and you're just glutton
for punishment, but why add rabbits?

Ernie: I don't know.

I don't know.

Rabbits are on the list,
sheep are on the list.

We're just trying to figure out
how to make it all work and as

we, as we advertise and market.

So far it's a been easier, the more
products we can offer, the more

somebody's interested in it and
they might be looking for a rabbit

and then find everything else.

Or they're looking for chicken
and they see everything else.

It's worked, definitely
worked that way with people.

Getting more things from us, and I think
it's just, I don't know, I don't know

if it's for the kids, for the rabbits,
but we'll try to move 'em around all the

time and, and make mobile pens for 'em.

But I think it's just a,
just another species to have.

Cal: I don't blame you for that.

I, I'd like rabbits and I've thought
about, you know, I purchased that raising

meat rabbits on pasture book, trying
to look to see if it's on my shelf.

And with, with their management
philosophy that's put forth in the book.

You're keeping your do in in cages
and then you're only raising the

offspring once they're weaned on
grass that you're moving around.

You know, and there's, there's
something, I forget what that disease is.

You gotta be careful about wild rabbits.

And I don't even know the range.

I think it's in my area.

So it's something to be con to
consider rabbits, like to tunnel.

How could you do it?

Because I, I've thought
myself, I like rabbits.

I like raising them to figure that out.

And I.

And I just have too many irons
in the fire for me to, to do it.

But I do look at 'em on Craigslist
because we've got ox here Texas

a and m University at Kings
Kingsville, I think is where it is.

And they bred a heat tolerant New Zealand.

Variety.

They also have a composite, but
the New Zealand type is white

and looks like New Zealand.

Ears are bigger which helps 'em handle
the heat better, but they grow fast.

Even in the heat.

They'll continue to raise
babies throughout the heat.

In fact, I think.

I think there's a, a guy in Georgia
that's got 'em, I'll have to look

that up because I had a few of 'em.

I was really happy with them,
but I was doing them in cages

and I, I just love to do 'em.

I on the ground and I know there's,
there's other problems, but you

know, if I think about grazing, why
am I raising something in a cage?

I should have it out grazing.

Ernie: I think that's probably the,
the how we started on the rabbit thing

was my parents right now are doing them
in cages and they have three rabbits

in cages and they started with meat
rabbits, you know, a couple years ago.

And then they keep thinking
about just getting rid of 'em.

They don't wanna do it anymore.

It's too much of a hassle they
don't want to keep at, as they

come up and help us on the farm.

Their cage rabbits seem less appealing.

Cal: Oh yeah.

Ernie: we've talked about just taking
their rabbits from them and doing

it here, or taking their offspring
and just doing it here on the farm.

And then I saw a video
of white oak pastures.

They have a video on YouTube of their
new rabbit habitat that they're doing

Cal: Oh, I'll have to look that

Ernie: but they do the bucks
in cages and then the dough are

out with the babies on pasture.

Cal: Oh, yes,

Ernie: Yeah, I think on YouTube
it's called the, they call

it like their rabbit hat.

Cal: Oh, yeah.

Okay.

I'll have to look that up.

I didn't know they were, I knew
they had rabbit, but I didn't know

what they were doing For sure.

With the rabbits.

I, I think that's interesting.

There is a YouTube channel that I've
thought about reaching out to 'em.

They are in England, and
they are grazing Guinea pigs.

Which I thought's interesting because you
have some of the same characteristics.

Not all of 'em, Guinea pigs
don't tunnel like rabbits will,

but they are a small animal.

And just moving them and doing it.

And I, I think it's interesting what
they're doing with the Guinea pig.

So I've, I've thought I need
to reach out and get 'em on

the podcast just to talk about

it.

I,

Ernie: considering that we don't
consume Guinea pig here at all.

Cal: Well, and that's kind of their deal.

They, they didn't get 'em
for consumption because

people eat 'em in other countries and if
people eat 'em, I'm willing to try 'em.

I haven't found any per
and pro pervi, Peruvian.

I'm sure Peru.

Restaurants near me that serve
it, but I'd be willing to try

it and see what it tastes like.

My wife says, no, you're
crazy, but I'd try it.

Uh, but they're not.

Ernie: eats it.

Cal: Yeah.

But they're not raising them
for consumption right now.

Actually.

They don't have a business model for the

Guinea pigs other than grazing
because they're using it to graze.

I think they have a vineyard.

If I

remember correctly in their grazing those
areas and they're just trying to figure

out a way how to manage the, the grass
that's growing up without spending time

on a mower or something that would hurt.

And they may have, I don't remember
exactly what all plants they have.

Maybe, maybe it's a orchard.

I'm not sure they're growing
something and the Guinea pigs

are a means to maintain the

Ernie: Okay.

Cal: Yeah.

Which, because when I first
saw it, I thought they raising

it for consumption in Europe.

That doesn't sound right
to me, so it's interesting.

Yeah.

Now, of course, sheep, we raise sheep.

I think sheep jump in there really
nicely for you without a lot of work.

But I'm interested to see how it
goes for you with the rabbits and

if y'all decide to incorporate

Ernie: yeah, yeah.

Hopefully soon.

Cal: Yeah.

Ernie, let's, let's jump back to
your dairy cattle, and that's gonna

be our overgrazing section for today

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Cal: where we take a deeper dive into what
you're doing and our focus for overgrazing

is going to be the calf sharing.

But before we get to the calf sharing,
let's just talk a little bit more about

your dairy and how you're managing that.

I believe earlier you said you
have eight, nine jersey cows.

You're

Ernie: Yeah, we're
milking eight right now.

Cal: Yeah.

A, and you kind of jumped in there,
not whole hog, but you jumped in

with a couple cows at first, right?

Ernie: We had 2, 2, 2 jerseys
at first that we got in milk

and then figure out milk in them
because we don't have a structure.

So we milk out in the pasture.

Cal: Oh,

Ernie: at first it was just buckets
of alfalfa and a little portable

bucket, milker and a generator on
a trailer and milking 'em outside.

And then it's progressed and we
still milk out in the pasture.

I just built a 12 by 12, kind
of a four on four by fours.

12 by 12 sled with a roof on top of it,
and then like a stanchion, and then they

walk in there, they get their alfalfa,
and then I just have everything on a

trailer that would pull behind with a four
wheeler and I just milk 'em out in the

Cal: Oh, okay.

Ernie: bring the, the milk back up
to the house and then process it.

Cal: Well that was my first question.

You're doing this by hand,
but, or a bucket Milker.

So you're using a bucket
milker with nine cows.

How many stalls do you
have for those cows?

In a 12 by 12

Ernie: Just two right now.

Cal: You've got two.

How do you.

I, I know you're working with a small
number and maybe you just push 'em back

and get another cow in there that hasn't
been milked, or do you have some kind

of process you go through with that?

Ernie: So I have, everybody
gets moved once a day.

All the cows are in single wire poly.

So I just park that sled in their
next pasture or their next pa, next

paddock, and then I'll turn off their
fence and then open up the poly wire.

And after I.

So like with the heifers, when they're
freshening and they've never done it

before, it's kind of, they know they're
gonna get alfalfa when they get in there.

So everybody's waiting in line, but
then they figure out like their order.

So I have the first two are waiting for
me when I get there, and then the next

two, and occasionally they'll try to
cut in because you have a mixture of.

We have two A one cows and
then the rest of 'em are a two.

So we'll milk all the A two
girls first, and then the A ones

Cal: Oh yeah.

Ernie: So everybody kind
of knows their order.

And then I'll just push the ones out.

That need can't come in.

Most of the time they're respectable.

As long as we're removing them and
they're, they're full, then they're

not pushing in there too hard.

But like if for some reason I gave 'em
a too small the paddock and everybody's

hungry, then they'll wanna bum rush
the the stanchion and get their treats.

Cal: Now, you mentioned their order.

They're coming in and you, you
do have a reason for that order.

You need milk.

The A twos first.

The A ones at the last, outside of
that order, does it, do you have a

certain order within the A two or
do the cows have a certain order in

the A two group that, that they milk

Ernie: The, the cows have their own order.

I could care less who comes in there,
but they have their, their pecking

order of who's gonna get in there
first, and they'll fight over it.

But they, and the weird
thing is they just.

To it.

So the first two, that cows are there,
they'll come in and the second two are

waiting, and then it just, it's been a
repetition when we're doing it every day.

Cal: It, and I really baited you in that
question because I knew that was going

to be the answer, or I was reasonably
sure that was gonna be the answer.

Because growing up on a dairy, we
milked from 40 to over a hundred cows,

depending on here, my grandparents and.

It was almost like the third set.

The first cow's gonna be this cow.

It's just some cows were really
particular about when they come

in, some didn't care as much.

Some were very particular if they came
in the front hole or if they came in

the backhoe because we had a double four
herring bone, so four cows standing there.

Some of 'em were very concerned.

One 11 always came in on, on
one side of the barn and she'd.

She'd grab a bite of feed we fed
in the barn and then she'd stick

her head below the gate and chew
on that feed and she'd make a huge

mess whenever she was in there.

It's just interesting and
like you said, that order.

It's such in the two year
olds were always at the end.

And now when they mature a little
bit further, sometimes they move up

in that, that order they milk in.

But it's just so interesting
and pretty predictable.

And if you're, you're watching
for heat, if they come in outta,

outta sink or something, you're
like, wait, why is she in here now?

This is not her time.

Ernie: Yeah, because even with our thing,
I'm in the middle with the bucket milker,

and there's two stanchions on each
side of me, so they have their own side

that they want to go into, and they'll
go into that side every, every time.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915:
Are you milking twice a day?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
No, we're only doing once a day.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

Which,

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911: the
majority of it, we went to twice a day

milking when we weaned this last batch
of calves, and then it was milking twice

a day for a couple weeks, and I went,

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: oh, yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
juggle this with the rest of the farm.

We're going back to once a day.

I don't care if we're getting a little
bit less milk, need, I can't do it.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915:
I, I completely agree.

I, I think this once a day milking,
um, could be a game changer.

F for people considering your labor,
you're gonna get a little bit less milk.

But man, doing that twice
a day takes a lot of work.

I always think back to, um, my
grandpa grew up on a ranch, worked

on a ranch, and they'd milk.

The cow night and morning,
night and morning.

And he, he got this job on this
ranch and they were milking.

So first Saturday night, he, he
gets ready to go out there and

they're like, what are you doing?

He said, well, I'm going
out and milk the cow.

And they're like, oh, she doesn't
give milk on Saturday night.

You, you know, uh, cows, cows
get used to that routine.

So once a day I think
is really a labor saver.

So with once a day out in the pasture.

How are you raising your calves?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
so we are doing calf sharing, um, and

we have for that, we have a portable
structure that I built too that

stays out in their paddock with 'em.

It's foot wide by 16 feet long,
20 feet long, something like that.

And it's got cattle panels on the side
and a just a livestock gate in the front.

then we, when it's getting dark outside,
we'll go out and we'll get all the

calves, put 'em in there for the night,
and use some poultry netting as like

a funnel first and get 'em used to it.

They'll get alfalfa when they go in
there and then far they've trained

themselves to go in there put 'em in
there and, uh, keep 'em there overnight

and then let 'em out after milking.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: So, so giving
them a little bit of alfalfa, pellet,

alfalfa pellets, they, they get in the
routine fairly early and it's not a, a

rodeo every day to get 'em into that pen.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
It used to be, as we've done it, it's

progressed more so like one calf was
fine and then if it's a really docile

calf, it's easy to get 'em in there.

And then there's been, there's four or
five of 'em to get in there, and then

nobody wants to cooperate or we're
doing something, we were out in town

and all of a sudden it's dark out.

You can't get 'em in there.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
the poultry netting of just

putting that up and then getting
'em in there and it's worked out.

And then our structure has changed over,
over time on how we need to do things.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

So talk about that structure just
a little bit more for someone.

Uh, you mentioned 12 foot by 20 foot
long or with cattle panels on it.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Yeah, I think it's 12 by.

12 by 16 or 12 by 20.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh, okay.

I.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
our, originally it was our milk stanchion

that we were our portable milk stanchion.

And then I went to a different
design to put two in there

because we had too many cows.

And then the cattle panels went
up and at first we had the cattle

panels on there to keep the other
cows out when we were milking.

So I had

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
pasture with, in their paddock with them.

I'd open the gate, bring the
one set of cows in, milk them.

We just had two headlocks in there.

Then as the calves were born.

I would have the calves in there
and then I would let the calves

out and bring the cows in.

'cause there was only two at a time,
or like two milk cows that had calves.

And then we needed something different.

So now it's 12 by 16 and it's
just two by 6, 3 2 by sixes

stacked on top of each other.

And then just, uh, square
frame on top with some metal.

Metal roofing on top

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
calves dry.

And then the

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
put up some metal panels, roofing

on the sides to keep the wind
out and keep the calves warm.

And

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh, okay.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
a headlock into the side of it too.

So if I need to put a nose ring or work
on somebody out in the field instead

of chasing down calves and, and them.

Uh, now just when they're in
there, we'll, I'll run 'em through.

That way I could run 'em
through a headlock or shoot.

And, uh, put a weaning ring on
'em, or if something's wrong with

'em, I could address it there
instead of having to get 'em.

'cause we don't have like a corral.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
the other side of the property, but

it's impossible to get cows down there.

'cause we don't have like a
roadway to get down there or any,

any infrastructure for fencing.

that way, even if it's uh, one of the
moms, I can either get them in the milk

sled or if it's the bull, I can get
somebody herded into that calf sled

and then get them in the headlock.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

Yeah, so, so your headlock in there will
work for your mature animals as well?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Yeah.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Yeah.

It's

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Well,

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
I found on Marketplace for a hundred

bucks and it's a full size, headlock and

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: oh yeah.

Well, the, the, I'm, I'm sure
that's really handy when you

need it to have that available.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Yeah, it's been a changer since

it's only been on there for like
the past six months, and it was

like, why didn't I do this before?

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I know how that is so.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
We had, we still had like one of

the wooden headlocks from when we
were milking the cows in there.

But no way I'm, the way it was
set up, there's no way I'm gonna

get a calf in there and try to

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah,

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
get them locked in to get a nose ring on.

But if I put an actual metal headlock
on there, I could just close the gate

and then just herd everybody through and
then let the, the ones go through and

somebody just closes it on that calf and
then we could do whatever we need to do.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: oh yeah.

With your, your calves, how long
are you keeping them on the cow?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
We've been doing about six months, so

we're giving 'em a little bit longer.

Um, and as we're trying to go forward
being better on grass, it only makes

sense to keep them with mom to learn
what the gray's on and what they can't

eat, what they can't eat, rather than.

Putting everybody on a bottle and
then expecting 'em to go out and graze

and then giving them a better chance.

If they're on mom for longer, they're,
it's my expectation that they're gonna do

better than if we wean them super early.

So it's worked out.

Some of our calves went
to eight, nine months.

Mom was like a low producer,
so we really didn't milk her

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah,

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
wouldn't get that much, so the

cash stay on, or they learned
how to get around their weaning

ring, so just no other option.

just let 'em

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
mom and they still did the

cash sharing for longer.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

And those caves will do better.

Having access to mom, then if you
were, and if you raise them on bottle.

I've raised lots of calves on a
bottle, but that's another job.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Yeah, it's another job.

We don't have anywhere to keep
them and, and do that whole

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

With your, your calves, you mentioned
putting a weaning flap on them.

Is that working fairly well for you?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
It has until it falls out in the pasture

and they get another taste of mom's milk

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh, yes.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
that are just smart and they figure

out how to go sideways and get it.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
So, and for them we, like right now

we have the, before we had the beef
cows and the dairy cows all together

for breeding and everything else.

Now we're back to two different herds.

So we have the lactating cows the
lactating jerseys separate, and then

the dry cows with the beef cows.

Behind them uh, that's worked for
problematic cow calves, we can kind

of separate them into the other herd.

They fit right in 'cause it's their
friends they've been in with before

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
not missing mom now.

So now we finally have all
the calves weaned this season

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: And do
you, is it just a single strand

separating them or are you using
electric net or something else?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
they're probably, the beef cows

are probably like 60 days behind.

Uh.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911: The
dairy cows, so I could be a little bit

more selective with the, the milk cows.

And then I'll use the beef cows
and the, the wean calves to come

back in and do a little bit more
high density on the second, the

second grazing period for that set.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

And are you moving your
do dairy cows once a day?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Yeah.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

With your, your calf stall or calf shed.

Are you.

How are you moving that with
A-U-U-T-V or four wheeler?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Yeah, the UTV, it's a little bit

too heavy for the four wheeler.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah,

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
so it'll, depending on where it's

going, it'll move with the four wheeler.

But the UTV, To move it because it's
only gotten a little heavier as the

time's gone, especially with that
headlock on there and as we add more

panels or the, the metal siding on it.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: oh yeah.

True

with your.

Your stall.

Let's talk about your milking
stall just a little bit.

You've got two stalls and you have
room in the middle for yourself.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
yeah.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

And then so the cows
walk into it to get feed.

Then are they backing out to get out
or do you have like a board on the

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
backing out

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915:
They're backing out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
that thing, it's, it's easy that way.

I thought about putting like doors on
the side so they can go out the front,

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: yes.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
having them go out the front and

then try and get 'em back into the
paddock they were just in, like it'd

be complicated without running posts
out and then more poly wire to try to

get a lane back to where they're going.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: oh yeah.

Yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
they've learned how to back

out and maybe I have to.

Push one or just get 'em, get 'em out.

But all know what they're doing
now as long as they run out of

alfalfa, I pull their bowl and
there's nothing else for them.

They'll

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911: the
ground and then they're, they're over it.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's not a problem.

They figure it out.

Uh, just curious.

So do you strive to give your cows a
certain amount of, um, alfalfa pellets

each feeding, or do you give them
enough while they're milking and when

they're done milking, you pull it?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Yeah, I'll give 'em enough to

milking and then I'll, I'll pull it

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
occasionally if I'm doing something

else in there, they might get a
little bit more, if I'm trying to get

vacuum flies off of them or something

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911: or.

If somebody's got, if one of 'em
have mastitis and they need cream

or doing something, then they'll
get a little extra treat just to

keep them in there and occupied

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Do you put a, a chain or anything
behind them or is just the feed

good enough to keep 'em in?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
the feed's good enough.

I have one makeshift headlock on one side.

there's, I.

If they're having a problem or like
they're just not over it or heat

and nobody wants to cooperate, ' em

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
I have to lock 'em.

But as long as there's alfalfa in
there, they, they pretty much will stay

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Pretty good.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
don't

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
unless like one of the kid, little one of

the kids spook 'em or something like that.

But they'll back out momentarily
and then come right back in.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

With your, uh, your shed.

Does it only have a roof
for your milking shed?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Yeah, it

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
a, a roof right now.

Um, I've thought about doing
sides on it in the winter time.

but at the same time
it gets so windy here.

I'm just worried about it flipping.

There's been a couple times where
I've had to the tractor forks to

hold the milk sled down on some
of the, the windy winter days.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh, yes.

Yeah.

My, my thoughts or my worry as I
think about it, obviously winter

with the wind's not gonna be
any fun, but when it's raining.

How, how is it when it's raining?

Or does that tend to not
be that big of issue?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911: It
does, unless it's like a really bad storm

and it's raining sideways, coming in, it's
not, hasn't been that big of an issue.

Um,

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
and then I can park them.

I could maneuver it to face a certain
way, whether the wind's coming at us or

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
coming at us or behind them.

then, uh, there's enough of an overhang
where it's not really coming, coming

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh, okay.

Yeah, and that makes sense.

Um, you know, I look at those New
Zealand style barns where they have

a herringbone and it's all open
and just a shad highly jealous of

that compared to what we milked in.

Of course, our weather, I don't
think would be all that much

fun to milk out in the open, but

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
No it wouldn't.

And then we did it for the first winter.

We did it out in the open, and
then maybe I would take a little

10 by 10 popup shade out there

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
really rainy or really cold days.

And I was like, we need
to do something else.

And the sled works because.

It cuts down on the cleaning time, like

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
and then the next, when I go to move

them in the afternoon, I'll pull their,
their sled forward, and then they're

in a new, fresh piece of grass away
from manure, away from everything.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
and then it's

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: With.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
like the height of the grass, trampling

it all, or knock it down with like
the Tupperware that I carry the hoses

out with and just getting everything
bent over to where it's not all over.

Them fighting with the milk claw.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

With your, your milk, you, you
milk your cows, you've got it

in the stainless bucket, I'm
assuming stainless steel bucket.

What's your process after that?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
So then we get done, and then if

we're milking all eight and we have a
whole bunch of milk, wife or uh, Dana,

whatever, our employees will come down
and they'll pick up the milk that's

done and bring it up to the house.

And then we just filter all right away,
bottle it and put it on a, an ice bath.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh, okay.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
get it chilled.

'cause we we're just getting to
the point of needing a chill tank.

It's only been this past year
that we've been milking eight.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: And you're
bottling it in like gallon jars

and putting in that ice bath.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
jars.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh, okay.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
'cause that's

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah,

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
thing with us being, you know, the organic

inside that we have a lot of people that
want it in glass jars and out of plastic.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: yeah.

What's the regulations there in
Georgia for you as sell raw milk?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
we're doing as pet milk?

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

As pet milk?

Yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Herd shares aren't legal here.

They legalized raw, made the, gotta
be a full enclosed milk parlor and,

and room.

And then they set the, the restrictions
really low to kind of deter

everybody from going that route,

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
So we're just under the pet milk

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Are you able, able to advertise it or
do you even need to, is there enough

of word of mouth that people just know?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
We'll, we'll advertise it on social

media, um, we, when we have a lot of
milk, but there's such a demand for it

that we don't really need to advertise
'cause everybody's calling for it.

Or they'll see the pictures on the
website and try to order it and.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

Pictures make a big
difference in Oklahoma.

You can't advertise raw cow milk for sale,

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Okay.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: but um.

But there seems to be a
good demand here for it.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Yeah, it's,

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
big boom behind raw milk right

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

Which, which the crazy thing for
me, you can advertise raw goat milk

for sale, but not raw cow mills.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Oh, wow.

That, that doesn't make any sense.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: At least
that's the way I understand it.

Someone may say no, you're
understanding that wrong, but

that's, that's my understanding.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
popular than goat milk.

They figure they don't have to
worry about those couple people

that want the, the goat milk.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: R.

Right, right.

Have you had anyone ask about
other species, like goat milk

versus sheep milk or anything?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Yeah.

There's been a bunch of people that
have called to ask about goat milk or

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
milk.

we, that's how we started with,
we were gonna do goat milk, but.

I don't know.

There's just something manlier for me,
getting out there and milking a cow

versus milking a bunch of goats or sheep.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I,

all of it appeals to me.

Of course, all this homesteading
grazing appeals to me, so I, if

I had time, I'd do everything.

So I have to, to really watch myself.

But, um, yeah, with the cows,
it's just, it's just the way we've

been exposed to as society here
in America is it's cow's milk.

Um.

My grandma used to always buy goat's milk
'cause it was healthier and I've had goats

milk and sometimes the flavor's just a
little bit different with goat's milk.

Sheep's milk is really interesting.

In fact, probably 15 years ago I, I
purchased some East, east Friesian.

Boy, I can't even talk.

I purchased some East Friesian
use with the plans of doing some

sheet milk and milking them, but.

I was busy and never got a milk.

They just raised their
lambs every year for me.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Yeah, a, uh, there's a sheep dairy,

maybe about a half an hour away
from us, and they do sheet cheese.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: yes.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
there to visit them yet,

but it, it's something that

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: I

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
I had more time and more

stuff, it would make sense.

Or if we were just doing a.

Just a dairy, it would make more sense to
have all just a different dairy species

'cause they're all doing the same thing.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911: I
can't, I don't know if I, I can deal with

meat sheep or hair sheep, uh, but I don't
know if I want to go the dairy route.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah, I,

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
had a couple goats and they drive

me crazy trying to deal with them.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: yeah,
I, I don't imagine you want to,

if you've got the market for the
cow's milk, that's the way it go.

Um, the hare sheep, no, not the
hare sheep, but the sheep's milk

was really appealing to me because
I could freeze the milk and then.

Make cheese when I had time,
or at least that was the plan.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Mm-hmm.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Not that I
ever finished that plan, but yeah.

Is there anything else about your farm?

We ran through most of your species
and you can't get into a lot of detail.

Um, partly because you, you have a lot
of species, a lot of things going on.

Is there anything on your
farm we didn't talk about?

I know I have one more question about
your farm I just thought of, but go ahead.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Um, we do, mostly everything

we do is direct to consumer,

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh, very good.

That was a question I had
wrote down, but I didn't ask.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
We have, uh, a couple like health, food

stores that we'll supply, um, for chicken.

Um, but almost everything
is direct consumer.

We, uh, we ship, uh, to
most of the East coast.

We don't do very many
shipping orders, but it's

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
we went into like we are gonna

be able to reach more people, but
there's so many people out there that

marketing it and, and getting stuff.

So we'll ship the neighboring states.

Occasionally.

Um, and, uh, I don't think
there's, I think that's it.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: My, my
other question I had in mind goes

all the way back to the beginning.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Okay.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Root
Pastors, where'd the name come from?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Uh, it took us a while to come

up with it, basically pastures.

'cause we were grazing everything
and we didn't wanna be a farm.

Um.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Then because everybody's got

farm after the name or something.

And then

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yes.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
was just something where we

could put solid roots down.

And iron seemed like a good thing to,

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
To put a solid foundation down.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

Yeah, it makes sense.

Uh, I think farm names are interesting.

We call our little farm what
we do, hedge apple acres.

And I, I like acres in there because it's
just the image in my head is such idyllic

image of few animals, grazing and stuff.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Yeah, you gotta come up with something

different than, like if it was
just hedge acres farms, it's just

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Right.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
thing.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Right.

I, I actually, as I think back now,
not right now, but in, I've thought

about it that I kind of wish I'd
gone with hedge apple pastures,

but you know, it still works out.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Yeah.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

Ernie, it is time we switch gears
and we jump to the famous four

questions, same four questions
we ask of all of our guests.

For today's sponsor, we wanna talk
about the Grazing Grass Resources.

We just launched it and it is
built by graziers, for graziers.

It's a listing, it's a directory.

It's your go-to spot to find farms,
consultants, books, podcasts, tools,

and more, all focused on grass-based
and regenerative livestock production.

Even better, you can submit
your own listing there for free.

That way we keep it practical,
useful and a community.

Whether you've got a service to share, a
favorite Facebook group or a farm folks

should know about head over an add it.

You can check it out at
grazinggrassresources.com

or just at our main
website, grazinggrass.com

and click on resources.

I look forward to seeing you
over there and I look forward

to seeing your listing there.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: And our
first question, what's your favorite

grazing grass related book or resource?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Uh, let's see.

It would probably be
either maybe Joe, farm,

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yes.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
because that's one of the biggest

things I say now to everybody when they.

ask what they could do
and it's just get started.

Don't care.

I don't care about what
infrastructure you have anything.

Just get a couple animals
and get them moving around.

I mean, we don't, we still don't
have waterline here on the farm.

We harvest everything from a spring
that comes off the mountain and we

fill, it all runs in IBC totes and I
use the tractor and water everybody

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
or with a tank in the back of the UTV.

And if we just.

Analyzed everything.

We would've never had
water lines in the ground.

We would've never had animals,
we wouldn't have started.

So just some animals, start, throw
some two by fours and chicken wire

together and just get started.

It would be s you can farm to
just get it, you pushed your way.

the, this podcast would be another one.

'cause I listen to it all the time and it

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Well, thank you.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
you have such a, a Amount of people on

for different things that it exposes
you to a lot more than just reading

a grazing book and then trying to

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
book and then do that, and then you're

the year's gone and you've only learned
about one species that you're, and there's

only one point of view of one species.

It's not a

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh, right.

Yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
are doing it themselves, and there

are different ways of doing it.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

Well.

Joe Ton's book, YOUCAN
Farm's an excellent resource.

I'm not sure if the Grazing grass is
worthy of being there, but I really

appreciate you including it and I
hope it's beneficial to our listeners.

Our second question, what's
your favorite tool for the farm?

I.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911: I
guess my favorite tool would, it would be.

It'd be tough 'cause we have
so many different species, so

many different things going on.

would probably be the tractor that
we have for hauling water and the

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
we couldn't do that.

We used to do it with filling up
in the back of a little trailer

and toting around with the UTV.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
uh, it would probably be the tractor.

UTV will close second 'cause we
have to haul the feed there somehow.

And then polywire.

'cause how else are we
gonna keep the animals?

And we wouldn't be able

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
graze every day and

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
day if we didn't have polywire.

Like my energizers, the
batteries died in the energizers

because you solar energizers.

And they died this weekend.

We hadn't been able to get the
battery stored, so they still have

not learned that the fence is non,
uh, we gotta get 'em the batteries

in there tonight, but it still works.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: You know,

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
of those three things.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: and
all those are great resources.

Uh, I, I like to caution people that.

You know, a tractor shouldn't
be your first purchase.

There's a time when, when that's
tractor can be really handy, but

there's a lot of things you can
do without a tractor to get there.

Um, the energizer, UTV,
both really good energizer.

Those are all good resources.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Yeah.

And the tractor, we really got it
because we had, 74 acres when we first

got, we didn't have any cows at first.

And then it was only started with four.

Yeah,

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
three cows and then add two more.

So we had the bush hog everything in the

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
maintain the,

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
and then it was hauling water, and

then it was, by then we were doing
enough broilers that we had to.

Steel with bulk totes, so it's
being able to pick up the totes

off the trailer that I couldn't

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
had a skid steer forks, and that's

a whole nother piece of equipment.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Right, right.

Yeah.

Um, and brush hogging is really valuable
if you're doing selective grazing.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Mm-hmm.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

So, yeah, that all makes sense.

Ernie, what would you tell someone?

Just getting started.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
It would be that just start, you can

do analysis for analysis and worry
about everything else, but get started

with enough chickens or whatever.

are the easiest, but get it for you

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Right.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
start that way and then learn.

And then it's, I.

not that big of a deal.

Like you could overanalyze it and think
about what you need to do and the perfect

brewer and everything else, and it
just slap it together and get it going.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah, I'm,
I'm gonna have to raise my hand.

I am terrible about thinking I'm
gonna do something and then I dive

in so deep and I gotta do this.

I gotta get this equipment, I gotta
do this, it, this certain way.

No.

Just start where you
are and do what you can.

Um,

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
I and, um, I can overanalyze things

so I just don't let myself do it.

So

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
batch of two batch of chickens

ago, we went, moved from 250
broilers a month up to 600.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
and we had the demand that we

sell out of our chicken in the
first week after processing.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh wow.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
time to to go.

So before we had a big enough
brewer for all the new chickens

and big enough houses, it was.

All right.

Place the order.

600 chickens are coming in two
weeks now we gotta build it.

We gotta go, we gotta figure out a
brooder and it might just be slapping,

ply, plywood up together and making a
roof and getting some lights in there.

And it's just forcing myself to
be, to build the stuff and get

off off my butt and, and move.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: I,
I do something very likewise.

You know, if the easy step is to order
it and it's coming in the future, order

it, and then you're forced to do it.

So I love that strategy to kind of force
yourself out of that analysis paralysis.

Yeah.

Our fourth question, where can
others find out more about you?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
You can find out more about us on It's at

Iron Root Pastures on Instagram, Facebook.

That's our, the farm one.

We don't have a TikTok.

We keep talking about starting
a YouTube, but I cannot find the

time to edit videos unless I'm
hiring somebody to edit it for me.

we have so much going on.

I feel like we should just start like
a farm vlog and keep everybody on.

'cause we're always building
something and always expanding.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
the time to do it is, I

can't, I can't find it.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Right.

I, I completely agree.

There is so many different methods
or channels out there for you

to, to promote what you're doing.

It can turn into a full-time job itself.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Yeah.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: You know,
I've kind of, with the podcast I

was pushing stuff out through a lot
more channels than I pulled back.

Now I've added some back.

It's always a evolving
solution I'm looking at.

But yeah, you gotta be careful.

You've only got a certain amount of time
you can focus on on something like that.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Yeah.

When I look back at it, like
all the farm blogs we used to

watch, that was their main thing.

They weren't actually
selling the products.

They were just food for themselves and
building infrastructure and building the

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
that vlogging was helped pay for all that.

Trying to vlog or record things
about where to removing the

cows and what we're doing.

It just, to sit there with the time
of just staring at, like talking

to the phone and then going to
edit something and then do that.

By then, I've already moved
the cows, I'm onto the chicken.

We're building something else,

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Oh yeah, yeah,

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
I can't just sit there and like set

up a, a tripod and a camera and then
talk to it for a certain amount of

time, I won't get anything done.

I'm just always in a rush.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: yeah, yeah.

I completely understand that.

Uh, to wrap up today, Ernie,
do you have a question for me?

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
I guess it'd be is how you find most

of your guests, because I feel like
sometimes they have to reach out to

you and then it's, is it just people
you find interesting through other

podcasts or things you're reading?

I.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: So
the way, so like everything,

there's a few different ways.

I put out at the end of each episode,
it says, if you're a grass farmer and

you'd like to share your story, fill
out this form, which is broken right now

because I'm changing the website around.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Okay.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: um,
I get, I would say about one

guest a month through that.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Okay.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: sometimes
it may be two or three this month,

and I may go a month or two without
anyone, but I typically have

a trickle coming through that.

And then.

I get recommendations, I get people
contact me and say, Hey, this person

would be great on the podcast or so and
so like, I posted it in Grazing Grass

Community and I've got, besides the
people that reached out and said they

were interested, I have a list of people
that was, that that was recommended

would be good on the podcast and that's.

Th that post has me a whole
bunch of names and people that's

gonna help me, um, get started.

I'd gotten a little bit lazy and was
a little bit behind on getting it,

so I appreciate you jumping on this
weekend to record for this week.

And, um, that happens from time to time.

I strive to have about
a four week lead time,

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Okay.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: but.

Um, here lately, I haven't been doing
a good job and it is about to bite me.

That's the reason I had to
post in the community about it.

And that's another reason that if
you're not part of the Grazing Grass

community, I suggest you get there.

The, the other way is I go
and I'm looking at websites.

I'm looking, I'm part of a lot of
different groups on Facebook, and if I see

someone doing something that I think, oh,
that looks interesting, I jump on their.

Well to their profile.

I'll go to their webpage and look,
and then I have a list that I put

down, um, on a spreadsheet that
I go through and contact people.

Uh, and that's kind of hit and miss
I think sometimes, uh, the emails I.

We'll end up in spam or people miss them.

Our inboxes are just so full, so
sometimes I think that's a little bit

of a problem when I'm reaching out,
but I'll reach out either through

their website or email and get 'em on.

I try to, as I'm looking at, at these
potential guests, I want to make

sure we're having a range of species.

I wanna make sure we're having a
range of geographical locations.

I wanna make sure we have a range of.

Uh, experience, like you've been doing
this a couple years and we talked to,

I'm drawing a complete blank, but, um,

Ricky not too long ago, and
she's been doing it for decades.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Yeah.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915:
you know, I want that range.

And when I think about that, I
want a beef producer every month.

I want someone with small ru
small ruminants every month.

Those, those are the two big ones.

I love dairy.

I also know my downloads take
a little bit of a hit sometimes

when I talk too much dairy.

So, you know, I try and temper that.

So I'd like to have dairy each month.

Then I'd like to have something else,
and that could be a repeat of something

we've already covered or something
unique like bison where we had Dusty

baker on here, or, um, I'm drawing
a blank, um, with, with the ducks

just to, uh, I should know the name.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
one yesterday.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: I
wanna say Doug, was that right?

I don't know, but I try
and get, get that range.

And as I think about, I would
like, and this is one area,

I haven't done a great job.

I would like someone outside
the US at least once a month.

Um, and I might even change that and
say outside of North America once a

month, and then just kind of group North
America together, because there's times

it seems like it goes in spurts, like.

I'll have a few Canadians on the podcast.

Or a month or two ago I had a couple
episodes with South Carolinas.

You know, it's kind of
interesting how that happens.

Um, but I just try and keep
an eye on that to do that.

But for guests, they either come to me
or I'm reaching out for various reasons.

Somebody told me or I found
something they posted online.

Interesting.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Okay.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: answer for a.

That should have been the short answer.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Well, I mean, it makes sense because.

Experience levels.

And that's one of the

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
that makes it like interesting

and keeps, I think.

'cause you have all the knowledge
of there, of the people that have

been doing it for a long time.

But then you also have the, either the
younger people or people that are just

starting to farm and they're figuring
it all out and they, they can think

of things that the older farmers,
it's not on their head 'cause they

haven't done, they haven't been to that

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Right.

Yeah.

Well, and and one reason.

I, I'm really particular about that,
that I want to, to that range in all

those different directions is I think our
journey speak to each other and you're

going to identify with someone's journey.

There's someone that listens to
today's episode and they're going to

be in a lot, their house is in a lot
where they only have a little bit

of area, and for some reason when
you said, Hey, I raised 10 chickens.

They're like.

Why didn't someone say that to me before?

And people could have, but it was
something about your story, your

situation, that spoke to 'em.

And the goal is that wherever you
are, you take that next step and

to get that next step, I feel like
you've gotta identify with the guest.

I listen to Dusty Baker's story,
um, with the bison, and I love his

story, but it doesn't speak to me.

Greatly because it's bison
and I'm not gonna do bison.

So there's some things now there's
some great things you can take from

it and I think with every episode
there's things you can take from it.

But to really if, if you're in that
analysis paralysis and you need to take

that next step, sometimes you've gotta
hear just a certain thing that that

causes you to say, wait, they did it.

I can do it.

So that's what I'm thinking.

Not to pick on Dusty, because they're
doing great things at Cross Timbers.

He was on my, he popped in
my head first, but you know.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Yeah, his stuff with a

bison is interesting.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah, it is.

Yeah.

And his YouTube channel and stuff,
but, so that's where I'm working from.

I don't know if it's right,
but I hope it's beneficial.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
I think it's working out for you.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

Well, Ernie, really appreciate, like
I said a while ago, I appreciate

you jumping on this weekend.

So we have an episode this Wednesday.

Um, enjoyed hearing about your story.

I'm glad when I posted that you
said, Hey, I'd be interested.

So thank you.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
I'm glad you had the time.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: I

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
out your, uh, the form for, uh,

website, but one of the ones
that didn't make it through.

'cause you're fixing it.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: yeah, I know.

It's, it's kind of the, the.

I, I've changed the whole website
up and it's breaking a lot of stuff.

I'm going in there trying to fix, I'm
trying to save money on the back end

and going and getting it all under
one house, which is, it's caused

some problems, uh, like grazing
grass resources we've got set up.

Um, but the grazing grass resources.com

is not routing right.

And I'm trying to figure out
why it's not taking it Right.

You know, you, you move
stuff, your brake stuff.

I.

I noticed searching for some,
um, episodes, see who was on 'em.

Just Remi, refresh my memory.

Some of the links on Google results
are broken, so I'm like, I need to go

in and put some redirects to make sure
those work, because I don't want someone

searching for something, going to the
website and say, oh, it's not here,

and then just quitting, because that's
what I would do if I was searching.

Yeah,

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
you gotta make it as easy as,

easy on people as possible to

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: right, right.

Well, I, I really appreciate
you coming on and sharing today.

squadcaster-jie3_3_06-22-2025_172911:
Hey, thanks for.

cal_8_06-22-2025_162915: Yeah.

Last week we got the episode
published and then I remembered

I didn't put my reflection
piece at the end of last week's.

It's a new segment.

We're trying.

Let me know if you like it or not.

Um, I know I get tired of
listening to myself talk.

Actually, my wife would say, I never
get tired of listening to myself talk.

But at a certain time, there's
enough talking from me.

On today's episode, Ernie came
on to talk about his journey.

It's a, it's a fairly short journey.

Been doing it a couple years on
their own farm, but I love how he,

and this is what really jumped out
at me, how he got started in, in his

backyard when he didn't have any land.

Now granted, he was just growing
for his own family's consumption.

But it's also a proof of concept.

Hey, I can do this.

This is a product that I can sell.

People are interested in it.

It didn't matter where he was,
he got started 10 chickens.

I think for me, that's the big takeaway.

Get started where you are.

If that's a lot in town, maybe
you can grow 10 chickens.

Maybe you can do a few rabbits.

Um, probably not a cow in town,
but you know, wherever you are,

there's ways to get started and
that's my big takeaway for today.

And once more.

I really appreciate Ernie
jumping on kind of last minute,

so we get this episode out.

Thank you, Ernie.

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