175. Adapting Grazing and Breeding to Harsh Environments with Doug Badcock
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah, so
we'll get started with the fast five.
First question, what's your name?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
I'm Doug Badcock.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: And
Doug, what's your farm's name
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: My
business is Green Lid Enterprises.
And I rent farmland
various fields and things.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453:
and where are you located?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: This
is a place called Kushi in Zambia.
If you bring it up on a map Zambia
looks a bit like a butterfly, and
where the Congo drops down into
Zambia, are right at that point.
So we, we are only about 20 kilometers
as the crow flies from the Congo, but
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
bit of the Congo that pokes into
that can give your listeners a
reference if they look it up.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: and go
ahead and tell us where to find
Zambia because I'm betting there's
a certain number of listeners.
It's like, where do I even
start in Africa to find it?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Okay, so we, we, you, you'd
probably say Central Zambia.
Most people will know South Africa.
It's probably the biggest economy
in, in Africa was once, and
then above that, sit Zimbabwe.
And then above Zimbabwe is Zambia
and it's a landlocked country.
We've got Tanzania to the.
Oh, this is tricky.
To the one side and then the other side
we've got Angola and Botswana, Namibia.
There's all little, little borders.
So
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: didn't
know you were gonna have
to do geography today.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
I didn't wanna, yeah.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453:
And what livestock species
do you graze?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
coal, mainly cattle.
But I, I've dabbled in dairy goats
before, but they've gone and I currently
have a few pigs and a, and a few sheep.
And then my other business is bananas.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.
And what year did you
start grazing animals?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Well, I came back to the family farm
in 2013, about this time in 2013,
and, and so I, I became the farm
manager and cattle livestock were.
Part of my job, for the first few years
I didn't really take an interest in it.
I did the job and like my recording
in those days was like a calf.
I don't think I recorded
what gender it was
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
said that cow had a calf and,
gave it a number, and that was
about as much as I used to do.
But yeah, seriously, I I, I,
I found it, it was a passion
of mine and probably about.
2017, I think was when I realized,
Hey, I actually enjoy this a lot.
Cal: Welcome to the grazing grass podcast.
The podcast dedicated to sharing
the stories of grass-based
livestock producers, exploring
regenerative practices that improve
the land animals and our lives.
I'm your host, Cal Hardage and each
week we'll dive into the journeys,
challenges, and successes of
producers like you, learning from
their experiences, and inspiring
each other to grow, and graze better.
Whether you're a seasoned
grazier or just getting started.
This is the place for you.
Ranchers, farmers and landowners,
if you're looking to optimize your
grazing operation and boost your bottom
line, Noble Research Institute can
help the noble approach to education
pairs their own infield research
with the expertise of ranch managers
and advisors to find practical
solutions to your unique challenges.
In July, Noble's in-person
courses will head into new areas.
Join them in McKenzie, North
Dakota, July 15th through the
16th for Noble Land Essentials.
And in Pendleton, Oregon, July
30th through 31st for Noble
Profitability Essentials.
The expansion doesn't stop there.
Later this year, they'll be
in Winter Garden, Florida
with the Business of Grazing.
And right now, each of these two day
courses is $50 off the regular price.
The pricing is available for a
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of the savings and visit noble.org
to learn more about the
courses and enroll today.
For 10 seconds about the farm,
it's raining enough said for
10 seconds about the podcast.
You know, last week we talked
about the Grazing Grass Resources.
Finally got it launched and going, of
course that's not without problems.
I had people go sign up.
But when you sign up for an
account, it's sending an email.
And that email is ending up
in your spam or junk folder.
Try and figure out how to solve it.
But if you signed up for an account
and you need to verify your account,
go check in your junk or spam
folder, and then you'll be able
to get in and make an account.
Also added.
One other thing, if you wanna add a
resource that you don't need to get
in to edit later, like I'm going to be
adding the books that are recommended
on the podcast to the resources.
If I don't own that or it's not my
business, my farm, you can just go to
submit a listing and scroll to the bottom
of the page and there is a form that you
can submit it without creating an account.
So there's two ways to to add a account.
One is just to submit it.
That's for things that you will not
ever go back to edit.
Like if I wanted to submit it on
behalf of like Redmond, I could go
in, submit it, and then it's on there.
And then when Redmond wants it
edited and updated, um, they can
contact me and I can do that.
On the other hand, for my farm, I want
to create a account and go in and,
and add my listing, and that way I
have the ability to edit it later on.
So if you haven't visited the Grazing
Grass Resources, I encourage you to do so.
If you haven't added a resource there,
your own one, you recommend, go do that.
We want this to be something that's
beneficial for the community, and
I've talked way too long about that.
Let's get back to talking to Doug.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453:
When you were growing up,
did you think you'd come back to the farm?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
I, I did always think that I
would end up being a farmer.
My dad has always been a tobacco farmer.
Very good tobacco farmer, but he also
has many other Just tobacco here makes.
Quite a lot of money compared to the other
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
so that's his passion.
And, and also my brothers
actually both grow tobacco.
I, I never saw myself as a livestock
farmer, although in junior school my
project that I chose to do was about beef
cattle, which is really weird that I've
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: come
the full circle and ended up back there.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah.
What.
when you came back to the farm,
you said at first you weren't
that interested in grazing.
What got you interested in it?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Well,
it's not that I wasn't that interested.
I, I just, I had so many other jobs,
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
and also cattle.
As an enterprise, it's probably
the least profitable, least.
Amount of turnover for the whole farm.
So, so we tended not to spend a
lot of time thinking about it.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Right.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: But
yeah, what, when I got interested,
actually, my father had sent me
across to a neighbor who was doing ai.
And we are, we are a little
bit in the sticks here.
So things like AI and stuff is, is.
Generally, even now, still quite rare.
I went over to his farm and I saw what
a, what a livestock farm looks like, and
it was natural and beautiful and I don't
know, I just got a good feeling there.
Whereas on our farm, everything is
very orderly, straight lines and, and
yeah, not much natural vegetation.
There's a lot, I suppose, compared to
many places, but for me personally,
I felt like we, we had cleared too
much land and put in crops and stuff.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: That,
that brings to mind a, a question
for most of our listeners.
Describe what we're looking
at when we're in Zambia.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Okay.
It's quite a if there weren't
crops and stuff, it would be
quite a woody, especially where we
are in this part of the country.
Other parts have certain,
like grasslands and stuff, but
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
it's, it's quite
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: And you
can get some really big trees and stuff.
Probably the best way for people
to see what I talk about would
for be for them to, to go and
have a look on my Facebook page.
I, I do quite a lot on social media.
And yeah, it's I, I really
like our environment.
Most people say it's not really
a cattle environment, but.
I, I, I do pretty well, I
think, and, and I'm happy here.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453:
Also Just speaking.
of your Facebook account, and
we'll probably bring this up,
be later on, but Calvin visited
you and did a YouTube video.
That's really good.
Also, I.
We'll, we'll put a link
in notes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.
Kelvin ti from Zimbabwe.
Okay.
Yes.
I'll, we can maybe link that
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah,
we'll put that in our show
notes.
And I, I always think Calvin is
the cool spelling for Calvin.
I.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yes.
Yeah.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I
this is completely off topic.
I used to work in elementary or in schools
and I'd get a lot of mail coming in.
I had salesman call in quite a bit,
but I got this one piece of mail in
and instead of Cal, they had me as Cal.
And and they, they didn't even
have my last name, correct.
It was Cal Hughes and I'm like, that's the
cooler version of Cal Hardy's, you know?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
The easier
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah.
Yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453:
Like, that's, that's crazy.
I don't even know where they
got that.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
even know where.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Anyway,
we'll put a link to Kelvin's
video in the show notes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Yeah, he did a wonderful job.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: He did?
Yes.
Win.
When we think about
Africa, and I say we, I'm
in middle of America, middle of the
United States, and I'm thinking of
it, I'm thinking lions and tigers.
The predators you have over there.
Do you have to deal with predators?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
No I don't.
Many years ago, probably before
the sixties, there used to be wild
animals in, in this sort of area.
Elephants and probably
leopards quite a lot.
'cause we do have sort of rocky
outcrops, which leopards favor.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: oh yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: But
these days, no, we do have jackals
and rabies as quite a, a worry.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: But
I, I don't think I've had a, in the
11 or 12 years I've been here, I don't
think I've had a case of rabies yet.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, okay.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: They're
not that bad and they don't, we don't
have calves missing or anything like that.
I'm, so, I'm sure certain parts of
the area and different parts of the
country have much more pressure from
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
other things
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah.
Well, I wanted to get that outta
the way because I.
knew that's a question I immediately
have when I talk to anyone from Africa.
Those predator animals just
seem like a lot to deal with.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Yeah, we, we quite, so I'm
quite central in the country.
And then usually the, a lot of the
national parks and stuff where they do
have wild animals and things, they're
sort of on the borders or next to big
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
or stuff.
And that, yeah, quite
far away at the moment.
But I do, I do follow quite a few
cattle ranches and stuff that do ranch
out with elephants and lions and.
Yeah.
That's quite cool.
I, I sort of wish I could, and at the
same time I know that I, I wouldn't
want any of my calves going missing and,
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: R.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
and stuff.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Right.
I totally get
that.
It'd be cool to see,
cool to be around that.
Cool to, for the natural
environment to be there.
But at the same time, you don't wanna,
you're already working on low profit
margins, so why cause more problems there?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: yeah.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: You know, when
when you got back.
to a farm, you'd mentioned.
Your dad raises tobacco.
Your brothers are there,
and you all had cattle, but
cattle just was, was kind of there
because most of the other parts of
The farm and enterprise took the time.
How was cattle
managed at that time and how has
your management of your
cattle evolved involved?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
So, so yeah, it was, I would say
it was very conventionally managed.
my father used what he learned at, at
agricultural college when he was there.
And yeah, basically
followed the same sort of.
Conventional wisdom.
And for our, our area, it's or Africa.
It's carving sort of a few
months before the rain arrives.
And breeding for long, having
long carving seasons, if not the
whole Europes most, or a lot of
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
especially the smaller small scale guys.
'cause they, they can't
the bulls anywhere.
But yeah, my father used to do 90 days
breeding and they would arrive in sort
of September, which is like, just as
it gets to the hottest time of year.
And we do get hot here and dry the forage
is like eating cardboard I think for them.
Unless you have
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: of
crops or silage or hay or something.
And yeah, they, the here.
For security reasons, a lot of
farmers will, will herd their cattle
in the day with, with herds, and
then at night they get locked into
a paddock usually that's quite close
to a, a farmstead or something.
I'm very fortunate I'm surrounded
by other commercial farmers, so
they're sort of my buffer zone.
So since I started taking interest
in cattle and, and once I did get
an interest, I sort of realized
that I had to pick one sort of.
Personality to follow because
there were many cattlemen in the
area and they all have different
ideas on how things should be
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: And
yeah, we had some great older generation
farmers and they, they were successful
and stuff, but I dunno how I ended up
with the Hansman book, which I hear you
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
most podcasts mention him and
yeah, I was very fortunate somehow.
Well, through guys in Zambia, and, and
he had just also moved to Zambia himself.
We, we, we linked up somehow
and actually my first year that
I kept my own herd of cattle.
I managed to get semen suggested
by him, although I only had
a small herd at that time.
I, I used, for the first two years I
was using semen, he had organized for me
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
other friends.
And so yeah, basically from that moment
I sort of started changing things.
I try and not keep the cattle
in a crawl at night because
generally it's in the dry season.
It's very dusty
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
and horrible and in the wet seasons
up to their bellies and mud and
flies and ticks and also horrible.
So I started keeping them with electric
fencing that hadn't happened until.
Until I started reading Johan's
books and, and, and also seeing
friends doing it and stuff.
And that sort of changed a lot for me.
And, and then, yeah, trying to get
this high density grazing going.
I don't do it all the time, but
certain times of the years and
stuff where I, I practice it.
And then, yeah, changing
the breeding season, I went
from 90 days on my own herd.
I was only doing about 45 days.
But I'm, I'm I took over my father's
herd about a year and a half ago, and
so to amalgamate the two herds, I'm,
I'm using 60 days at the moment, but
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh
yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: get
back to 40, 45 as quick as possible.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah.
With your electric
fences, you mentioned a
little bit of high density grazing.
Are you moving them every day?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
on every day?
Y yes, at certain times of the year.
Depends what we are doing.
Like at the moment we are on my father
also grows a lot of what we would call
seed MAs, but for you guys, seed corn,
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh,
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
And it's, it's harvested by hand.
So the cattle do very well on there.
So they're actually on there now, even
though the bush generally is still quite
green and we have a lot of diversity,
thousands of different plants and
stuff, some reason they just do so
much better on, on the maize stove.
So I've got them on there.
Well, what, what you would call
stalks, I think I call it sto or
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh,
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
And yeah, so there on there we
are probably moving at least.
Four times a day at the moment,
and then at night putting
them into a grass paddock.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh
So you're doing
pretty high density right now.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: yeah,
I've done some very, very high densities
in the past and I've seen its effects.
And the one year I.
Yeah, I hurt myself quite a lot.
Condition dropped.
wouldn't think a week of, of high
density grazing could, could do
so much damage if, if done wrong.
But you've gotta look at
what, what's your goal?
What's, what are you trying to do?
And that, that paddock that I really
hammered was a very horrible paddock.
It's actually where they're
sleeping at night now, which
people could see on my page.
But yeah, I was literally
moving the, the fence like.
Three or four meters at the
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: to
get them to really, either well utilize
the forage, either eat it or tra it.
And, and yeah, that it, it responded
well, the paddock, but the, the
cows definitely didn't do well.
There's not much in that
grass, what we call Spiros.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Were you able to?
identify that pretty soon, or was there
quite a bit of delay before you saw
that the cows weren't doing as well as
they should?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Straight
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Mm-hmm.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
And, and also another.
Another year I had actually taken
on a herd of Sussex from a, a
very good cattle farmer, Mr.
Wyatt, the late Mr.
Wyatt, he was 94 when
I took the herd over.
And a friend of.
I kept them at a separate farm and a
friend close there asked if I could
use my cattle to knock back all the
grass around his house and stuff
in the, in what I call the bush.
I, yeah, I let my herdsman manage that
and I didn't really think it through
because a lot of those were cal cows
and were due to go to the, abattoir.
And yeah, we did it not for very long
and I think I really lost some, some.
Easy money there by throwing
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
right at the
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: yeah, I
lost some condition on those animals.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.
But at the same time, it taught me that
my abattoir, he pays on a dressed weight.
And, and I can sell to other people
who will take it on a live weight.
so I've learned through that process
that I'm better off selling my
cattle for addressed weight when
they're nice and fat and plump.
if, if I can see any bones or anything
sell it to someone else who'll
take it on a live weight off the
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.
But you know, all those experiences,
even when we mess something up
and I'm quite fond of messing
stuff up before I get it right.
And, but they're learning experiences
and they improve our ability to manage
our animals in our grass in the future.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Yeah try and take take everything as
a, an opportunity to learn something.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yes.
So one thing I wanted to talk
about there, you mentioned
they're losing some condition on
those Sussex, and then just the
management of the high density,
but let's talk about your forage
base,
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
about your
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453:
all native grasses.
What grasses are you growing there?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Cal.
I'm not very good.
I do know enough to get by.
So a lot of forms would probably have like
paddocks and stuff for cattle, but we.
Cattle in my area, cattle let me
just maybe diverge a bit, but cattle
here, generally a lot of farmers
make their money on irrigated
crops and thing, high value
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: like
tobacco or macadamia nuts or but they'll
just keep a herd of cattle security
to get around all the edges of their
farms and also to knock back the natural
grasses because every year it's like a.
A Zambian sport to see how much
we can light of the country.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: And
it, it's very hard to try and stop it.
It, it's almost like a cultural thing.
And for various reasons from just from
making it easier to walk through the,
the, the felt to trying to catch wildlife.
So poaching or something, a lot of.
Fires or even mistakes guy, guys on duty
the night workers making a fire and then
forgetting to put it on in the morning.
So Karl, I've lost what, what
you actually asked me there.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Well,
Your grass is there.
But you bring up a
great point about the fires.
We're gonna have to talk
about it in a minute too.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah,
so, so we, we've got, we are get, it
gets mentioned quite a lot in your
podcasts and, and other cattle podcasts.
And your book talks about a lot sour felt.
So we've got very tall grasses
easily 10 foot in some places but it
does not carry a lot of nutrition.
It's very lignified quite
quickly after the rain stop.
But fortunately there are quite a
lot of legumes and Forbes and things
like that that generally can help.
But yeah, in Hans book he talks
a lot about with the taller your
grasses, the smaller your cattle need
to be, and yeah, so I'm trying to.
I'm trying to follow
that line of thinking.
But some people do grow
pastures and things.
Just we, we've never really
had space for that and
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
in the cropping because my dad
started off from fresh in 20 2008.
Basically there's no space
to rest lands and stuff.
He has to double crop most lands if
he's got the water for irrigation.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.
Yeah.
Just speaking of water, when's
your precipitation come down?
And I'm assuming you have a rainy
season with a long dry period.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Yes, correct.
So we
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
generally rain will start, you
might get a shower in October, but
generally it'll start in December,
end of November and it'll carry
on till sort of the end of March.
And
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, okay.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
shower late or something.
But.
in that period, and I mean,
generally we are supposed to be
above a thousand mills of rain.
Sorry, I dunno, the
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453:
I think that's about
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: But
in the years I've been which is about
12 years now, we've had very bad seasons
up until sort of the last two or three.
They've normalized, I would
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Do you get
the majority or all of that thousand
mill during that rainy season?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yes.
Yeah.
So we can get, big, yeah.
In a week we can almost get a few
hundred mills and then we can have a, a
period of dry where it just disappears
and you think, well, didn't I just
get a few hundred mills a, a week ago?
And, and the,
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
it's all just disappeared.
So a lot of people here,
especially in this area, have
dams for irrigation on the rivers.
So they dam they catch the,
the water, the runoff, yeah.
And then other, other farmers on
bigger rivers that are perennial, they
can pump straight out of the rivers.
But yeah, here we, we impound it.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Do you
have any water impounded on your
place, or are you just relying
upon all the natural precipitation?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
No, we, so my dad quite quickly with
tobacco, you, you want, you, you want
to have a few different crops and so
we'll have like a, a, an irrigated crop,
a sort of middle crop where it gets
supplemented with what if there's a
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: a
dry land crop, which is just rain fed.
Just because the facilities to to handle
tobacco are quite an investment, so you
wanna spread it out as much as you can.
And, and so he, he built a dam here,
which is shed between four other farmers.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, okay.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.
And that can give us about hectares
of, of winter crop and, and probably.
In the, in the rainy season, we just
supplement things to, like bring
up the maze, the corn, we'll just
water once or twice to get it up.
And once it's up then
we wait for the rain.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh
yeah,
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
And so, yeah.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: with your, your
forages there, you're, you're gonna get a
lot of growth in a short period of time.
So, so that
means majority of your year you're
grazing, stockpiled, or mature forages.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Yeah, generally yeah, we, we struggle
in the, once the rains come the
cattle can't get around fast enough.
And I haven't really, every
year I don't have a plan.
My, I, I change what I'm doing and, and
graze different areas and, and stuff,
but I'm, I think I'm way, way under
stocked, so it doesn't really matter.
Too
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Especially now once upon a time I
was, I was only leasing 300 hectares
and then that was quite tight.
I, that's why I had to be
ruthless with cow cows and things.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: With
so much of your forage in a
mature state or stockpiled for
a large portion of the year.
You mentioned fires.
Do you do any strategic grazing so that
maybe the fires don't affect you as much?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Yeah, gen generally.
Definitely I'll try
and do that when I can.
Graze along fence line boundaries and like
heavily graze or put the night camp there.
The night camp tends to always get the
hardest work by the cattle, manure, and
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Right.
Yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.
But yeah, we do, I, I, I don't know a
tractor yet but I, I've taken over a new
lease about, well, I started in March
and that's a thousand hectares and I'll
have to start doing fire breaks there
where we either dis areas to, to slow
down a fire and then, or maybe even
burn sections, just to, to make it a
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh
yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
gap between paddocks or whatever.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I think over
here there's more and more areas that have
to do something and be more aware of it.
We're usually aware of it during
the time that fires happen late
summer here for us, but it's
usually not too big a problem.
Or you get into late winter
when everything's just so dry.
You.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.
Yeah.
And that it is a big problem in
Zambia and like I said earlier,
luckily we are surrounded by other
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
So we are quite lucky that gen and,
and we've got a good community here.
So if we did have a major problem, we
haven't ever, in the years I've been
here, we've managed most things and,
and quite often I'm not grazing the
say that bush or, or, or whatever.
And it's usually just
before the rains arrive.
So it actually sometimes
does us a favor to let it
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
And then the rains come and a
just beautiful flush of young,
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
grasses and stuff.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453:
You know that that's always
something that's really pretty as
sea, is that growth after a burn.
It just looks so nice out there.
I
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
But I do with high ultra density
grazing, like if I sleep them in
certain spots and stuff, I, I get a, a
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
after that.
Just at the moment, I can't get around
fast enough to, to do it to the whole
farm or, or all the land I can grow.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Now
with, with grazing those acres
and stuff, how's water access?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Water access.
It's something that's starting to
bite me now as my herd gets bigger.
Even, even to, to be honest the herd's
actually sleeping in my garden tonight
and I was trying to provide water
for them and, and I not, I, I just.
haven't got the resources here.
Usually in Zambia, people don't actually
do like piping and, and, and troughs and
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
except around maybe their farm's dead.
Most cattle will drink out of rivers
and streams and dams and lakes if
they've got them which is not ideal.
And yeah, we get a, we've
got a heavy parasite load.
So I, I've tried in the
past to try and organize.
and troughs and things, but
I need more work on that.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: So
are you making your paddocks
whenever you're moving them?
Are you leaving a lane to water or
are you making it big enough so that
they includes some access to water?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: No.
Generally we don't have lanes and
stuff yet, but we move around so
much that they're not, they tend
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
walk on the same lines back.
It'll be from a, be grazing and
then they'll have to walk to
the water from, from that area.
And, and yeah, we try and, and graze
away from the water so that they're
not walking over fresh forage and and
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
But yeah, like I say, we've
been on may corn stalks for.
About a month already.
So, and we'll probably be here
till December with a few breaks.
We, we grow wheat and there's
a bit of tiff this year.
And then, yeah, we have other
resources, like when the dam does
start dropping I've got quite a number
of hectares of, of grass, which does
really well, that water was as it
drops, it's like an irrigated field
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: And I
can get a number of grazings off that and.
So there's a few different
things I can lay around with.
I also have macadamia orchards.
If I was organized with electric
fencing, I can get in there and
generally has nice grass because
there is irrigation and there is
shade, a lot of shade from the trees.
And so, yeah, I, I can move around stuff.
But generally they, they're on corn
stalks for quite a long period of the
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: months.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Now with
your, your banana plants, do cattle
ever graze that area or is the
cattle completely off of that area?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: No.
So I, I only became a banana
farmer about a year and a half
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
took over a, an operation that was
already in bananas, and I've doubled,
tripled that with some plantings.
And yeah, I, I put cattle in 130 bulls.
I grazed through my.
that I planted in January of 2024.
And yeah, they were just very high
density and just for probably an
hour or something on, on, I worked
it out once, it was about 0.05
of a hectare, 130
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
and as soon as the forage was
finished, there was a multi-species
cover crop that I had planted.
soon as they were finished,
they moved into the next strip.
And I went through like that.
I had, I had eight hectares
available of that, and it, yeah.
I didn't, they weren't on that alone.
Usually I would graze them for the
morning in, on the, in the natural
grasses and then bring them onto
there, like a supplement kind of thing.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, okay.
Yeah.
With your, your cattle, you'd
mentioned earlier that you all were,
Kev, your dad was ke a a couple
months ahead of the raining season.
Is that still in your
kev or have you adjusted
your Kev season?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
No, I adjusted straightaway and,
and when I started my own herd in
20, 20, 20 was my first calf crop.
And, and yeah, I, I dropping calves
on Christmas Eve that, that year.
But I, I, I've moved it away from
Christmas a few days later just
so that it didn't interfere too
much with the, the festivities.
Not, not that I do a lot myself
at carving, but it, it's still
I like to be around and, and
see what's happening and stuff.
So, yeah.
But I, I, I think I'm actually on a,
on a trajectory to move it forward.
Now I'm coming back I think I was just
adding a little bit too long and now I
wanna move it forward, but, you know,
that's quite difficult especially if
you're only doing a 45 day season.
So I'm gonna jump forward in about a week.
Over the next two years, I want
to get it so that I start my
breeding on 1st of March instead
of like, this year is the 15th of
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.
Yeah.
Move that forward a little.
Yeah.
Let's, we've talked a little bit
about your grass and infrastructure.
We're gonna talk more about the
breeds you're using there, the
breeds that are even available there.
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cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: So to get
started, what breed did your dad run?
I.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
So my dad was running the boron.
I dunno if you've
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I have, yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Yeah, the boron.
And that is actually probably the
majority, certainly of like-minded
farmers who run boron in this
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: And, and just to,
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: And, and
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I know
I've heard of them, but I'm
not super familiar.
They're a medium sized, they've been bred
for improved beef production.
They still have a zebu look to 'em though.
Somewhat.
Not as, not as much as
zebu, but still some.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
No, they, they are very
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, okay.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
a big hump.
Yeah, very, very zebo.
Big hump, big sheath.
it's like a, a squashed brahman.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, okay.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
I hope I say that
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.
Just beefier.
And they're from East Africa
originally the South African, like
Zambia's, not a very organized
beef or cattle industry here.
There are a few stud breeders and stuff
registered herds, but not, not too many.
South Africa is way, way more.
Organized in
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: sectors.
And yeah, they, they're trying to improve.
They've got a lot of feedlots and stuff
in, in South Africa, and they're trying
to improve the boron, which in some
people's eyes is not what should happen,
but they are getting bigger animals
to satisfy the, the feedlots because
farmers were previously being penalized
for supplying those or other indigenous
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Is the
biggest hit on those borons?
Is it their size or is
there other negatives that.
That people are not fans of.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Yeah, I think they, they, they very I
wanna say early maturing, but in, in
the fact that they put on fat easily.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh,
yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: than,
so, so if you started feeding, so when
we, when I first came to the farm as
well, my dad would wean seven months or
so, and then those calves would basically
go straight into a feedlot and then, and
then as soon as they fat enough would
be sold to the abattoir or something.
And in those days we only got about 380.
be, would be like a heavy animal
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: okay.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: That
is, and that's not very big at all.
So one of the things I did once I
started paying a bit more attention,
attention on the cattle was I delayed
putting them into the feed lock.
Since we've got all the grazing and
crops and stuff, it's not like we short.
So now.
So instead of selling animals
at about a year old, we now sell
them at about two years old.
And so the frame's much bigger,
but still they, once they go into a
feedlot, they put on fat very quickly.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh
yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Whereas we've had Angus in the feedlot
or Sussex, and they could sort of,
they can just, you could carry on
feeding them and they'll still grow.
Whereas with a boron, you, if
you feed over 120 days, you're
basically wasting your money.
It's just getting fatter and fatter.
A bit like a pig probably.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: very interesting.
A lot like me at a dessert buffet.
I'm sure.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Oh, I can't speak Cal,
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: So have you stuck
with,
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: have
With
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Boran?
Borans?
Tell me, say that again.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: so.
Boron.
I, I say boron, but other, other
people in Africa will say it
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Okay.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: yeah,
probably I should listen to the Kenyans,
but I don't, I don't really know many
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
since it comes from that area.
So when I went to visit that neighbor
about the AI and, and saw the, the natural
farmland without crops and stuff, the,
the, the previous year we had sent in some
of those small, small borons for slaughter
and the abattoir in, in our capital city.
Lusaka said, these are too small
and they're not ready yet, so
we'll have to feed them some more.
So the money that we were
gonna pay you, we'll have to.
to buy finished animals from someone
else then we'll be able to pay you
half in about three or four months and
then the other half in however long.
So that's when my dad said,
no, this, this is not, we can't
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Go and see our friend Mr.
The Lake Paul Dobson and
go and see what he's AIing.
He was getting some Red Angus,
I believe it was from Canada.
I can't remember
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
We, so we followed suit and, and
we did 50 cows that year in 2017.
It was, yeah, we had a really good result.
I think 38 of them came out
as red Angus Cross Boron.
And yeah, those did really well
through, through our system.
And, and yeah, at at Slaughter they
were, well, well through their life
they were at least a hundred kgs
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: than
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Now when
I think about Borans, I think
they're red mainly, aren't they?
No, Okay.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
they, they very, yeah.
You get a lot of like, I know
some farmers that select for red
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Oh.
Yeah.
And in South Africa, like I think in
the states, you guys like black cattle.
In the feedlot
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
premiums for black cattle.
South Africa, they like red
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, okay.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
and so, so they get premiums for
red cattle and discounted for black
ones and different colored ones.
So people do try and
breed quite a lot of red
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, Explains
it.
yeah,
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
they're multicolored.
I would say mine is split.
I've got gray or white borons.
I've got red ones, I've got mottled
ones, carkey colored, and but yeah, they,
they, and now all the big fad in South
Africa is to choose these multicolored
ones which look very similar to another
breed called Uni with fancy hides.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: So is
your herd still predominantly?
Borans?
Borans?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: No, Cal,
so, so the main herd that my, so, so my
herd, so I run all the cows now and my
dad only manages the feed lot, basically.
And I pay him, I, I, we made a system
where I buy his cows off him by paying him
in kgs of, of wieners in, well, they're
not wieners anymore, but animals into his
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: And
so, so his herd was predominantly boron.
There were a few of those.
Red Angus are still there.
If they've carved every
year, they're still there.
there was quite a lot of Sussex.
I put a Sussex, I bought him a
for his birthday in, well, a farm
bought him for his birthday in
2018, I think it was a Sussex bull.
And, and he was put in the wrong herd
and managed to cover 36 out of 40
of my empty cows in, in one month.
So we got a lot of those
females in the hood.
And that's quite a
popular cross in Zambia.
A lot of people try and use the
Sussex cross indigenous reeds.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I see
In Africa.
I see it in Australia, but I
don't know that there's zine
steel in the United States.
I think they were imported at
one time, but I don't know if we
have any active breeders here.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Yeah, I don't, I actually haven't
thinking about it, I haven't heard much
about, I, I hear red pole and South
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
maybe even some Devons,
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Right.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: So I,
I just got mine mainly because there was
a, a very old farmer, 94 years old, and
he was looking to disperse the herd, and
in those days the prices were so low and.
He was basically gonna get
slaughter price and, and, and
I thought I could take them on.
So we did.
But to be honest they
haven't lasted in the herd.
I, I was tight for grazing in those
days, so I had to be ruthless.
And also, yeah, they, they were the ones
which were always sick when, when we had
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
go through the herd.
They were the ones that showed the signs.
We had lumpy skin disease.
There was a Sussex always that
went down first, so they were
quite a good a warning system.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
generally our, in our indigenous
breeds, if they do get sick, they
don't really take a toll on the herd.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: So what, what
are your indigenous breeds in your area?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
So I would say boron is now
considered an indigenous reload.
Wasn't here before Farmers were here.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
there's Tuli here, but that's that
was a breed developed in Zimbabwe.
Tuli is TULI, I think it's quite
popular in South America at the
moment, or it's gaining ground in
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
So that's a Sanger breed.
Like an African tourist breed.
We've got the Anni, which is an even
smaller Zebo breed like a miniature so
Mauna is like a miniature tulle almost.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, okay.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
compact animal, and that's, Mauna
is also a Sanger breed whereas
the Anni is very similar to that.
But it's, it's definitely Zebu got
more of a hump yeah, they haven't
been developed quite as much
as the ANA have over the years.
There's very few.
Farms that have used them
as a, as a beef animal.
Uh uh, and there are some other
indigenous breeds in other parts of
the country, but because I don't have
access to them, I haven't decided to
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
So what would you consider
your base cow herd now?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: So I'm,
I'm breeding for the majority of angoni
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: and Goni Goni?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
two years I've had a, a big
portion of my sis have been anni
and so that's spelled A-N-G-O-N-I.
And that's, there's a, there's another
breed that Anni from South Africa, which
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Well,
I've heard of that breed.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yes.
Yeah.
So yeah, they, they're quite similar.
But again, in Goni is a Sanga
breed, and Anni is a Zebo breed.
so they both have, I, I do have both.
The, my herd now is very mixed.
A lot of the European ones that I've
even used Aberdeen Angus in the past.
They, they've all dropped out generally.
And I've seen, you know, I, I've
watched a herd of anni since I came
to Kushi, and, and that's where I,
I've seen how well they've done.
So that's why I'm pushing
in that direction.
Especially for my systems.
There's other farmers that can afford
to make hay and silage and stuff
like that, and, and they, they can
do well with other bigger breeds.
But, but for the way I'm farming
as a young farmer now I've
started with the small ones.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Are you AIing
them to anything or are
you just using on Goonie
On them?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Just natural bulls at the moment.
I would love to, to take my own bulls
straws and, and do AI myself, but I'm
still, I need to learn how to do that
and go for some training and stuff.
So.
Hopefully I'll get to that one day.
But for now, I, I, I, I do also
keep some of my own bulls and, and
use them from, from 1-year-old.
I just put them with the cows When it's
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
they might not, they might not
do much at one year, but at least
they, they, they're seeing will
be required of them the next year.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah, I, I'm
a big fan of raising your own bulls
because then you get an animal that's
used to your environment, you're
picking from your best genetics,
and I'm doing some line breeding.
Then
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.
Yeah.
I saw quote, I think
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
on one of the groups, Johan posted
a quote and, and I think it was
something like this by Johan Zisman.
He said inbreeding is okay if.
If nature is doing the, the breeding,
but as soon as man gets involved,
that's where, where inbreeding
becomes a bit of a problem.
Line breeding and
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah.
Yeah.
that that line
between inbreeding and line
breeding's pretty blurred.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Yeah, I get a, I get asked a
lot, especially by new sort of
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
farmers and stuff, they ask me
how I, how do I separate my bull?
Because I, I just have
a huge multi si herd.
I don't have separate herds
breeding to different bulls.
So, yeah, I get it asked a lot and,
and generally they're very confused
when I say I, I don't worry about it.
I don't care.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Actually,
we usually keep, we raise a few
bulls that we use on our own herd.
I do the same thing with our sheep.
We keep the best rams and we
use 'em on the flock and the,
like you said, the question I
get from people all the time, how
do you keep 'em from breeding?
They're moms, their sisters.
I don't, I just let
nature take care of it.
The best animals stay in the herd.
The ones that aren't get cold.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and also I think as I get
better, 'cause I did have a whole,
a very good bull battery a few
years ago, but I moved them, I, I
moved areas 800 kilometers south.
And then when I.
And then that didn't really work out.
So I came back to this area
and you're not allowed to move
livestock out of that area.
So I had to slaughter all those bulls.
I'm basically starting again.
About two years ago I started
breeding again, my own bulls.
So once I do have a decent bull
battery, I won't keep anything
that's sort of over three years
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
their sons must be better off than they
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah.
They, they should be.
And if they're not, you gotta
change what you're doing
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Let's go ahead.
and move to the famous four questions.
Same four questions we
ask of all of our guests.
For today's sponsor, we wanna talk
about the Grazing Grass Resources.
We just launched it and it is
built by graziers, for graziers.
It's a listing, it's a directory.
It's your go-to spot to find farms,
consultants, books, podcasts, tools,
and more, all focused on grass-based
and regenerative livestock production.
Even better, you can submit
your own listing there for free.
That way we keep it practical,
useful and a community.
Whether you've got a service to share, a
favorite Facebook group or a farm folks
should know about head over an add it.
You can check it out at
grazinggrassresources.com
or just at our main
website, grazinggrass.com
and click on resources.
I look forward to seeing you
over there and I look forward
to seeing your listing there.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Our first
question, what's your favorite grazing
grass related book or resource?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Oh,
Cal, I think I'm gonna have to say
Han Ziemans book Man Cattle and Felt I
try and read it at least twice a year.
I've bought a copy for my
Zambian herdsman herd manager.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
And then I'm very fortunate to be
in touch personally and on many
of his groups that are worldwide.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, very good.
Excellent resource.
And I, I think everyone should read it.
Yes, or listen to it.
It's available as audio book, which
works out really nice as well.
Our second question, what's
your favorite tool for the farm?
I.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Ooh, Cal, my favorite tool, oh, who?
I'll probably go with motorbike.
I, I just here, I would love
to have a quad bike, a four
wheeler, but, or a side by side.
But, but they're not really popular here
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
But we use motorbikes and, and yeah.
I love the adventure of riding on
a and generally that's the easiest
way to find the cattle in the bush.
'cause there's no roads and,
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
Very
good,
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: treks.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: very good.
I, I see motorbikes used in
a lot of different countries.
You don't see 'em around here
much, but other countries.
I see it.
Our third question, what
would you tell someone?
Just getting started?
I.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Ooh.
I, I would say try and find your
passion and, and don't force things.
If, if.
You want to do something
and it's not your passion.
It's never, I don't think
it'll ever really work out.
One, once I realized cattle was
my, my passion and, and my, my
spark I've never looked back.
And, and also like the weight went
off my shoulders once I realized that,
because I knew it didn't matter if
if I got chased out of this country
or something happened and I had to
go to another country, I don't care.
I could survive if, if I could.
That's enough for
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
Well, very good.
Lastly, where can others
find out more about you?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Cal.
I'll direct them to my page,
which is Green Lid Enterprises.
My personal profile, I try and keep as
a, as a personal profile on Facebook.
I am on Instagram, but not so much because
Facebook is way more popular in Zambia.
And then I'm an amateur YouTuber at the
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
a lot of people were telling
me that I should be on there.
So I'm starting on YouTube, but I'm
also on there at Green Lid Enterprises.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: All right.
We will put those links in our show notes.
And before you go,
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Thanks, Kyle.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453:
you have a question for me?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Ooh,
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: I.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Cal
what, what breed have you not tried
that you would like to try one day,
even if it's impossible to get it?
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Well, I,
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Well,
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: love the,
the English
red breeds, Sussex.
If I could find them here, I would try
'em because I feel like that falls into
that same vein as Red, Angus Red Pole,
Devin, that that whole family of English
red breeds, otherwise.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
you'd be able to get straws
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
UK or something.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: And,
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah,
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453:
the, The other one that's
getting more popular is
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: more,
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Ness here.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453:
I'm really a fan of the red.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: a fan
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: medium sized
animal, and I think that just all fits.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Okay.
Well, I'm actually, I was born in Mac
Land where the, where the ANA cattle come
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, yes.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
Many years ago.
I used to live in, in Zimbabwe.
This is a little side fact.
I would love to also try them, but yeah,
we've got, we've got our own ones, the
north of the Zambezi, our own breeds that
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: here
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah.
Now you mentioned something
just real quick.
you mentioned about livestock movement.
You
can't move livestock.
very far.
Is that for disease?
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: Yeah.
Certain parts of the country, there's
different diseases and things that
people don't want to spread and.
They don't really have a, a solution for
it, and I think people don't wanna be held
accountable for, so they just leave it.
The eastern part of the country can't
move their cattle, which is where
actually the gon breed originates from.
Although there are some in
Mozambique, Malawi, Tanzania very
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
in Zambia it's the eastern province
and there's a river that they
cannot move live animals across
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh, okay.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
that's been in force for 70 years or
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Yeah,
you used to, in the states,
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
the states
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453:
different states have different.
rules and sometimes.
Like I'm near Kansas, and Kansas was
Bruce Osis free, but Oklahoma wasn't.
We were, it seems like we were a type C
and at that time, any cattle going from
Oklahoma had to be tested or something.
I know we sold in Kansas and stuff would
have to be marked and then it'd have
to be tested or just go for slaughter.
Yep.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458: so
even where we can move, we still have
to have all tests for foot and mouth,
east Coast Fever, which is a tick-borne
disease, and another one now has come in
quite badly called CBPP, which something
bovine, something pneumonia, very deadly.
And
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: okay.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
come in and slaughter whole herds or
farms if you, if you get any positive
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Oh yeah.
Yeah.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
So we, yeah, we are very
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Well.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
how we move animals.
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: Doug,
I know you're need to go.
I appreciate you coming on.
and sharing with us today.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
I'm glad we managed to make it work.
I'm really sorry that
I'm so unorganized and,
cal_1_06-16-2025_100453: you're great.
You're
great.
doug-badcock_1_06-16-2025_170458:
minute.com.
Cal: Thank you for listening to this
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