Regenerative Ag Stories on the Grazing Grass Podcast

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: So we'll
get started with the FAST five.

What's your name

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
dusty baker,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650:
and what's your farm's name?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Cross timbers bison

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Where are you located?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
sulfur, Oklahoma,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: And what
livestock species do you graze?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
the American bison

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: And what
year did you start grazing bison?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: 2018.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh, very good.

Cal: Welcome to the grazing grass podcast.

The podcast dedicated to sharing
the stories of grass-based

livestock producers, exploring
regenerative practices that improve

the land animals and our lives.

I'm your host, Cal Hardage and each
week we'll dive into the journeys,

challenges, and successes of
producers like you, learning from

their experiences, and inspiring
each other to grow, and graze better.

Whether you're a seasoned
grazier or just getting started.

This is the place for you.

Speaker 4: Calling our ranchers.

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For 10 seconds about the farm,
I purchased a couple of the.

Teeter farm tech, automatic gates,
and I got those set up this week.

It did take me a hot minute to
figure it out and get 'em set up.

They are working, but the verdict
is still out on them one hand.

They are working.

I did have cattle get out twice this week.

Once was my fault, and we
won't talk about that one.

The other time, I'm not sure
what happened, and it was

where I'd put one of those.

Teeter Farm Tech gates.

I don't know if the gate hooked my poly
wire the way I had it or something.

I'm not sure.

Probably cows backed into the,
the wire and knocked it off

a step in, post something of
that sort, sort, I'm not sure.

Um, they are working as intended,
so I'm, I'm getting used to

'em and seeing how they go.

10 seconds about the podcast.

I don't know if I've mentioned
this often, but I'm a web tinkerer.

I web tinker, web tinkerer.

Hmm.

I'm not sure which would be correct.

I am all the time building stuff, trying
stuff, and most never see the light of

day as you've been here for a while.

You know, I've done that numerous
times for the website for grazing

grass, so my farm website's down
right now, I almost have a new.

Build of the website available
on new platform, really

liking it, but I also have.

A few other projects in mind

and I was thinking, I was listening
to a podcast and they're like

building, building the open so
people know what you're doing.

And to be honest, when I build
something, a lot of times it gets

scrapped, deleted, and forgotten about.

I built a podcast to do
list app, just a web app.

I used it for about two weeks
myself, didn't like it, didn't

tell anybody else about it.

That's the way it works.

But I decided, okay, so I'm gonna
go to the Grazing Grass Community.

So you can go there today, you're
listening, go to Grazing Grass

Community, and I've set up a poll of five
projects, maybe six I don't remember,

of some projects that I'm working on.

Th they're in varying stages.

Some are close to completion,
some are further away.

But I would like to find out what's
important to you, or maybe a better wor

way to say that what would benefit you.

And my plan

is check boxes.

I haven't done it quite yet, but it'll
be ready by the time this episode's out.

My plan is for it to be check boxes
so you can select all that you

think would be beneficial to you.

If it's none, choose none.

If it's one, choose one.

If it's multiple, choose multiple.

However, if Facebook doesn't let me
do it, you'll just have to vote on

the one that's most useful for you.

But go to a Grazing grass,
please, or go a Grazing Grass

community, please and vote in that.

Let me know what would be beneficial
to you, because we want this

podcast and what we build here.

To help you.

And with that, uh, let's get back
to talk to talking to Dusty, uh,

Dusty's, a person I've been wanting
on the podcast for a long time.

We've talked a time or two
about getting him in on, and I'm

finally able to make it happen.

He just lives a couple
hours down the road from me.

With that being said,
let's get back to Dusty.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: So Dusty
to get started on your journey.

Why bison?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Well,
I just there's a small herd here in

my hometown of sulfur here at the
Chickasaw National Recreation Area,

and they've kind of always been here in
our, our, our yard, I guess you could

say, growing up here and just been very
fond of him and I've just always kind

of, you know, admired him and you kind
of can lose track 'cause you just get

used to 'em and being in your hometown.

But

my, I wanted to get into my major
was wildlife ecology when I went to

Oklahoma State and growing up in this
park and stuff, I, I really kind of

wanted to get in that field and so I, I.

I was able to get a summer job
in that national park, right when

I graduated high school in 2004.

I got, a, I got, yep, I got a job
in that park and I was a government

rated, you know, employee.

And so what I did was, one of my
first jobs on a kind of a daily

basis was to check the bison.

And so initially I, you know,
gravitated to that and we

got to go out in the pasture.

And that was when like, I was
really up close, you know, you could

see him from the fence and just
growing up you could always see him.

But I'm in this pasture now with these
animals and there's a big bull in

there, and his name was Crooked Horn.

He had this drop down
horn and he was unique.

He was really popular and he was
older, but, my boss said, take

'em some cubes every now and then.

And so we took him some cubes, which
is the range cubes, the 20% yeah.

Feed.

And we went out there and I just stood
in the back of the truck and he came up

there and he is just so big and massive

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
I was just captivated by 'em.

And I, I got to see a lot of the behind
the, behind the fence stuff, you know,

like in, in the pasture with them.

And I just, I was just
hooked to be honest with you.

And so I, I, I just, I never,
nothing against cattle.

We eat beef forever and I showed sheep in
high school and and I just, we, those kind

of animals were just like, oh yeah, but.

The bison just was just a
completely different feeling to

me and emotion being around them.

And I just gravitated towards that.

And so they just kind of hooked me in.

And you know, I, I tell people this
all the time is people say, wow, bison.

And I think about, you know, when you're
driving across the country or you know,

you're in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas,
Nebraska, all those places, you're

driving up and down the interstate.

You turn and you look and see
cattle, you just, your eyes go back

to the road and you keep driving.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: You
know, I mean, it's just another thing

when you turn and you see bison, you're
like, oh my gosh, look at those bison,

you mean, everybody looks, you're
like, there's a bison right there.

And so that's my kind of approach
to this is like, that's cool.

That's an animal, you know,
that once almost disappeared.

And.

We can contribute to the conservation
preservation of the American bison.

So that's why I'm bison.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: We go to pioneer
woman boarding house fairly often.

My wife loves going there

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Mm-hmm.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: and to be honest,
the pioneer boarding house, that's fine.

I go obviously, 'cause my wife goes,

but then I force her to drive out to the
tall grass prairie so I can see the bison.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Absolutely.

Beautiful place.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: I
love seeing the bison out there

and I, I went through a phase.

I am no way a artist,
but in fifth grade I drew

pickups every day in art class and
then somewhere through the year it

transitioned into drawing bison every

day.

You know,

not that you could ever
tell they were bison, but.

They've always been fascinating to

me and, and I love seeing more now
in high school, you mentioned sheep.

Oh man.

I did not show sheep.

I showed dairy cattle and thought
the sheep people were crazy

because that's a lot of work.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Yeah, it, I agree.

All I was like, why am
I showing these animals?

Like, you know, it And, and my
family, the, my, my stepdad Kevin

and his mom, grandma Joy, they've
been raising sheep for since he was

probably in middle school or high

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
And so, once my mom married Kevin,

I just kinda went into showing
animals and showing sheep and so

FFA and four H and all that stuff.

But yeah, I mean, I was like watching
all my buddies, like they didn't

work near as hard as I had to.

' cause they just, you know, if
they're showing their pigs,

they're just walking them

around.

My buddies are pulling their, you
know, their heifers or steers with

a lead rope, and I'm like, I'm
over here trying to pick this.

Lamb up and

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: yeah.

And when I went through school,
they were shaping those sheep.

Like every week

they'd have em in there on the stand

trimming it.

I'm like, oh man,

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Yeah, all of it.

It was, I learned a lot from it and

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: It's good.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: yeah,
patience was a, was it word I probably

would say the most.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: And you
mentioned OSU in there and only thing

I really wanna pull out from there.

I went to OSU except I
wasn't as smart as you.

When I got to OSU, I got a
job on the OSU Dairy Farm

and worked out there.

What did you do while you were at OSU?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
I was luckily enough to have one

of the coolest jobs I, I think
any college student can have.

I was a football equipment
manager for the, for the, for

the Oklahoma State football team.

So just a student manager.

Yeah, I was, it was pretty neat.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah, I,
I'm completely envious of that.

I love OSU football.

I love OSU and getting to do that.

It's quite fascinating.

And while we won't cover more
of your time on this podcast, I

think this is Oklahoma podcast.

You were on there and you all
talked fairly lengthy about some,

some things about that time.

So if the listener's interested,
I suggest you go check

out that podcast and we'll put
a link in our show notes to it.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
yeah, yeah.

That was a great podcast, Mike.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah, I, I
heard that and I was like, oh, that, that

would've been a dream time down there.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: I know.

it,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Probably got in
more trouble than I would've needed to.

So.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: it
was I had a lot of neat experiences

and you know, I can, I can say
I worked for Coach Gundy, so

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: cool.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: So, so you make
this decision and get some bison in 2018.

How, how did that decision go?

How did finding land to run cattle?

I mean, I say cattle,
I'm so used to saying

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
It's all right.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650:
because it's always a resource

that we've gotta figure out.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

Well, I just, honestly my wife
and I, Marissa we're working our

full-time jobs and stuff, and I just
kind of turned and looked at her.

This was before we got married.

We were still just dating, but I kind
of looked at her and I said Hey, what

do you think about raising bison?

And like her, she just, she was
like, yeah, let's, let's do it.

You

know?

And so, kind of jumped on board.

She said you know, I don't want you to.

Wait five years or 10 years down the road
and say, I wish I would've done this.

So

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: we just
jumped into it, I guess you could say.

And the reason we could jump into
it when I say that is because my mom

and Kevin had a property in sulfur.

And we were still living in Oklahoma City
at the time in our careers and stuff.

And it was possible because they had
an old dairy farm and some of it was

ran down and stuff, but there was
some fencing, there was an old corral.

We had water.

And so there was a sort of
something there that we could do.

And so that's when we went and
we got our first five in 2018,

may of 2018 five yearlings.

And we brought 'em home to mom and Kevin's
place and, we put 'em in the corral.

And from there we just expanded.

We, you know, we did a lot of work.

We did a lot of welding.

We built fence, new water systems.

And that's basically how we
were able to, is because mom and

Kevin, essentially, they weren't
doing anything with their land.

And so we

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
you know, turn it into a

sort of a small bison place.

And so we were so lucky because we
would work in Oklahoma City, you know,

and then mom and Kevin, Kevin mostly he
had, had experience with bison before

and he was the sheep guy again too.

So,

He just, he, he had had a lot of
experience with exotic animals.

He had worked at a Barker wilderness
for a while back in the nineties.

And so it was like this perfect
deal for us to get started.

And he took care of him during the week.

And then we would come
home on the weekends.

So

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yeah,
that, that really made it nice

while you were working away to have
someone there to take care of them

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yep.

It was,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650:
to to get the farm ready.

For those first five bison, did
you have to do anything special

to the fencing or was fencing and
infrastructure already in place?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: There was
some fencing and there was an old corral.

We had to raise a couple bars up.

We had to weld, you
know, some heights to it.

Like, you know, we took this old
dairy place and just kind of, we

worked on some of the pens and stuff.

As far as the fencing goes.

We built new exterior perimeter
fences and which was, we do

six strands of barbed wire.

And so that's what we did a
lot of, on, on the exterior.

And then our cross fences, we did,
I think five strands of barbed wire,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: it's all
the standard height of a regular fence.

We just use six and a half foot
tall t post instead of six foot,

and we drive them in the ground
further on those six and a half foot.

And then of course we put that top
strand of barbed wire at the very

top of the Yeah.

As much as we can.

So yeah, we, we did all that.

And a lot, there's a lot of learning
of, of stuff in there, so of,

of the bison.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: you,
you'd had some experience with

bison during your summers before.

What surprised you initially
about those five yearlings?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Well,
you know, just, just their uniqueness.

They're just so family oriented.

I, I learned.

Real quick, just how social they
are and kind of how much they

count on, count on each other.

And so that was kind of
one of the first things.

And, and in raising 'em also, I was really

worried about them kind of, you know,
people just think that they're mean and

that thought we're gonna try to hurt you.

And it was, it was really
the opposite of that.

They, the more that we were
around them and interacted with

them, it just chilled 'em out.

And they were used to us, they weren't
bouncing off the pens and stuff.

So

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
my initial thought of, I, I know

these animals can be a little crazy.

It was not like that.

Of course, we were nervous, but they
really chilled out because we gave them

good water, we gave them hay, and we
fed 'em, and they appreciated that.

And so we just kind of

acclimated together.

I mean, it's just like
any other animal, you

know?

But the

bison gets that.

It gets pointed the finger at 'em for
being wild and dangerous, which we

know they can be, but they weren't, so,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

On that you treat cattle.

Badly.

Or you can turn a, you can have
a mess there too, real quick.

A wreck.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
absolutely.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: And one thing we
notice as we do daily moves with cattle,

you're out there so much that cows are so

calm because they're just so used to you.

So being out there with your
bison really helps with that,

or I'm assuming

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Yes, it does.

Makes a

huge difference.

I, I will say that I probably, the
biggest thing we learned is in the early

stages, the first couple of years, I will
say that handling them and, and when I,

we work 'em, when you actually run 'em
through a squeeze shoot and stuff, that is

really where you have to manipulate your.

Hailing facility, your systems,
your runs, your alleys, all that,

that was a big learning curve

for us because within our first
year, we, so we started with five.

We had a one bull and four heifers.

Within our first year we lost one.

And that was, that was hard because

we had to load him up on a trailer.

We drove him to the vet
clinic and to Doc Parsons.

He, he was the guy we
actually got him from.

And he's a vet and we took him
to him and we came home and

one of 'em had been gored and

never even got back out of the trailer.

So, you know, Ralph looked at me
and said, we've gotta, we've gotta

put a handling facility in, we've
gotta put some time and money into

it and get our own squeeze shoot.

And so.

That was probably the biggest challenge
in the early days is figuring that

out and how to work 'em safely

and get their dewormer and stuff.

So,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Is them
gorging, each gorging gorging boy,

figure out how to say that.

Is them gorging each other
a problem when you haul 'em?

I mean, obviously it
was a problem that time.

Is that a common problem?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
I, yeah, I think so, but,

and I've seen it, but this

one just happened to get it in the right

spot.

It's like,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: just one of those

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
it's just one of those deals and it

just, you know, kind of like where
you would shoot a deer kind of right

there behind the shoulder.

That's where we found it.

But so obviously it, it hit a tough,
it hit a gentle area and we just, it

happens, and I've seen it, it just
happened to be in a bad spot, but.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: The
thing was, is from there on, I was

like, okay, well next time we move these
animals, let's handle 'em differently

and let's put 'em in different holding
cells inside the trailer because,

you know, it's like studying your animals.

I know this one's crazy and I
know she's gonna beat up this one.

And so you gotta think about
all those things and it's how

you work 'em, how you load 'em.

And then from then there on,
we've just managed that better

and how we put 'em on a trailer.

So, but it's gonna happen,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: right.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: know?

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Throughout
this journey, you, you started and Kevin

was helping with taking care of him.

You were working in the city and, and,

coming back on the weekends.

When did you, when were you
able to make the transition and

spend all your time out there?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Covid is whenever.

That happened.

So, we had Brooks, our daughter,
and right at the beginning of like

February of 2020, Brooks was born

a month, a month later, spring break hit,
and I was still coaching and teaching

and basically at spring break that's
when everything kind of went nuts.

And I never set foot back
into the classroom again.

What, what we did in that is we
actually, Marissa was on maternity leave.

I was went on spring break
and then it never went back.

So

we, we got to work from home.

So we moved, well we didn't fully
move, but we started staying

in sulfur and that's where.

I was able to spend more time
with the bison, focus on the

YouTube channel and stuff.

And then anyways, life, life went on.

We got out of the Covid days
and Marissa was still working a

full-time job and I, I stayed at
home and was being dad for a while.

And we did the bison thing, YouTube.

And then we also do we have a
rental property of some cabin

rentals down by our buckle lake.

So I was doing all that and she actually
had, had to drive back and forth

and she would stay in Oklahoma City.

I think she did that for
about a year and a half.

And

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
finally when she got out of

that career, we landed and.

Stayed in sulfur so that all that
covid stuff, I don't know, people

say it all the time, but it just, it
just got strange during that time.

But it, but it was, it
was good for us, so,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yeah,
COVID hit or spring break hit and

then midway through spring break
we're not going back to school.

I was in school administration
then, and we were meeting

like all the time trying to figure
out what in the world was going on,

what we were going to have to do.

Yeah.

It was a crazy time.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: it was.

Yeah, so I, I resigned.

We went on spring break and
then I resigned in May, and

so I got 10 years of
teaching in basically.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh, very good.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Now at that point, I.

Was the bison starting to be
self-sustainable or was that more

Marissa's working off the farm, she can
help support the family and the farm.

You're able to dedicate more
time into it and grow it.

And also you've, you've
got some cabins in there

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, for sure she was still working
and kind of taking on that load, and

I was updating the cabins and trying
to do the bison thing, and then I

was doing the YouTube thing as well.

So, yes, she, her kept her, you
know, working definitely helped

keep everything going, and we kind
of made that decision so we could,

I could be a stay at home dad and

do all those things.

And yeah, we, we, we
managed it for a while and.

And, and when people ask, you know,
when you, when you're wanting to

raise bison, I, I I kind of warn
'em about the time it takes to ever

start making a profit off the bison.

I,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yes.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
you know, because bison take longer

basically than twice as long in
some cases than, than cattle per se.

When you get, when you get yearlings,
which is what we started off with, which

is great because they were still little
and you know, you get used to 'em.

They get used to you.

I

really like that.

But, you know, if you think
about this here, here's a, if

you want me to run with this.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah, I, I think
this is an interesting point because as

I think about it in my li to knowledge.

am guessing you're not breeding
them till two or three,

and then you've gotta
get a calf outta 'em.

That's gonna be a year later,
and then you've got time

before that calf is finished.

So yeah, break down that
timeframe so we understand that.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Yeah, you said it.

So bison are able to breed at two
years old and you know, bison,

bison are like deer, elk, moose.

They breed one time a year, a certain
time a year, and then they're going

to calf a certain time of the year.

That's now you're gonna have some
randoms in there, but they're

essentially like a wild animal.

They're to, they're,

they're, they're, their clock
is, is, like a wild animal.

And so they turn to, typically
in the spring, we just say

may 'cause that's an average.

So they'll turn two in May.

In July and August, it's breeding season.

So they, that's, that's when hopefully
they get bred long as a woman.

So right at nine months
they're gonna carry that calf.

So you should have a baby in the spring.

So now we've had this baby in May,
and then, like you said, whatever

we're gonna do is this calf, you know,
let's look at it at the meat side.

If we've got a bull calf, we've
gotta wait another two years before

he hits at least a thousand pounds.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yes.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
It, it's gonna take that bias in

at least two to three years, a bull
to hit at least a thousand pounds.

I try to shoot for 11 or 1200 if I
can, and then, you know, it's depends

on what you want to do, whether you
want to sell your weaning calves.

You know, I wouldn't sell a weaning
calf until at least seven months old.

You know, and, and we've
changed some things over time.

We, we leave them on their
moms longer and all that.

So, yeah.

I mean, you turn around and look,
you are not, you hadn't made a

dollar in four or five years.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yes.

It quickly adds

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
It, it does.

And so for a bison rancher, and
this is where I tell guys that are

interested in doing it, I'm like,
you're gonna have to, you can't make

this a full-time job, you know, unless
you're already farming or whatever.

And I'm lucky I, I've been able to do it
because of my wife set us up for this.

And then the YouTube, you know, all,
all that helps pay for everything.

So you, you, you're not gonna make any
money for four or five years if you

start off with calves or yearlings.

And I am like, you're
gonna have to still work.

'Cause these guys always wanna.

And I love that people want his bison.

We need more bison ranchers out there.

But it is, it's difficult if you
don't have a way to pay for that

until you get to that five year mark.

So, yeah, bison take longer.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah, just
one thing you mentioned there on

YouTube, when did you start YouTube
and when were you able to start

seeing some return from YouTube?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
I, so I started in 2019, almost

a year after raising the bison.

I was like, man, I was
just naturally an educator.

Obviously I loved being
an educator and coach.

And so I was like, I'm doing
all these really neat things.

I'm experiencing all these
neat things with these animals.

And Marissa and I, you know, we'd
sit at home before we had Brooks

and we would look into bison.

Social media and, and,

and stuff.

And to be honest with you,
like on YouTube, there was

nothing out there consistently.

Or just in, in general.

There was not a lot of information on

bison, you know, I mean, there
was some Ted Turner documentaries

and some conservation stuff out
there, but nothing consistently.

And I was like, I love these animals.

I'm passionate about 'em.

I'm doing this right now.

I'm, I'm, I'm raising
these animals right now.

I'm going through these beginner stages.

I know there's people out there that would
benefit maybe and, and wanna raise bison.

And so I'm like, I'm just
gonna start recording it.

Very uncomfortable.

But

to start.

But I wanted people to see our journey and

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: right.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
I honestly, I, in YouTube.

You have to hit certain thresholds before
you ever start making an income off of it.

And I forgot honestly what it is.

You had to like have to
have so many followers.

You have to have

so many hours of watch time.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Well, dusty, it's
a thousand hours or a thousand subscribers

in 400 hours of watch time in the last

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: It is

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Be
because I know that, because

my channel's not quite there.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650:
getting, it's getting

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
we can work on it.

Yeah.

So and, and then, but you
know, I did that in 2019.

I forgot all that stuff since then.

But I don't know, to be honest
with you when it started.

But what really started changing
as far as the YouTube goes

is when I was consistent, I

started being able to post
every Sunday and Thursday.

And I've been doing that for, I
don't know, four or five years now.

I feel like I've been consistent and.

When I started being consistent,
that's when I started to basically

see some of that revenue.

And then whenever I resigned as a coach
and teacher, I put more time in into

the YouTube.

And so I would probably
say that 2020 mark, 2021.

And of course people were staying at home

more and,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: right.

Yeah,

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
you know, so

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: I, know during
Covid, I started watching marble races

on YouTube, which is just ridiculous,

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
yeah, hey, we all were

just getting by, you know?

So, but I, I think that's when I started.

I was like, okay, I can,
I can pay a feed bill.

Maybe I could go buy another bison
you know, start that kind of thing.

So I took, I think it took a couple
years before there was that one time I.

Was like, okay, this is, we're, we're
heading in the right direction because

now I'm making more on YouTube than
I am as being a teacher, and I get to

stay at home and be with my family and
do these things that we love to do.

And so that's why I was like,
okay, the, yeah, it's working.

I think it's working.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: yeah, yeah.

Right.

I think talk to a lot of people about
social media and growing a following.

Consistency and quality is
what I always hear brought

up, but I lean strongly
towards that consistency.

I've seen some stuff out there that's
just awful, but they post every week

and people, you get you, I'm on, there's
a podcast I listened to and they have

co-host on it and they changed out.

One of the co-host did not like the new
co-host at all, but I like the content.

So I listened for a few times and
now she doesn't even bother me.

So it's like, you know, once you've
heard someone or listened to someone

a few times, your opinion, if you're
not, not immediately turning them

off, you grow to like 'em even better.

So I think that consistency is the

huge thing there that
really elevates your game.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah,

I,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: of course, this
is from me, someone who doesn't have very

many followers on YouTube and the podcast.

Well, we're making it, but

you know.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
but, but you're right because

that's where I saw the growth is

because.

Honestly, once you start getting
those followers, like you're

talking about the loyals,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: know
those loyal people, they're sitting there,

they're, they're, I'm not saying they're
sitting there, but they're, they're

waiting on you and they're counting on
you to put out that, that, that episode.

And so, you know, if it's, I think of
Yellowstone watching Yellowstone series

when every Sunday at seven o'clock we
were sitting down as a family ready

to watch the new episode.

That's the same thing for a
lot of these loyal followers.

And so that's you.

You gotta be consistent
and build off that up.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Right.

I, I totally agree with that.

Podcasting, YouTube, you have
people I know I have certain

things, certain YouTube channels
I watch at a certain time.

Certain podcasts I listen to on a certain
day, so I'm expecting that to be there.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yep.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Transitioning
just a little bit from YouTube into

regenerative practices, how have, you know
regenerative practices has really came

our, I don't know about to the forefront,
but it's being talked about a lot

more as you try and be,
re more regenerative.

How's that?

What does that look like on a bison ranch?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
It's been hard.

I won't say it's been easy.

There's a, a lot of input that has gone
in and we're in the early stages of it.

I know, because there's
a lot of learning for me.

But I love it.

I, I really like it.

I've enjoyed this transition and it's
been, when I say it's been difficult,

it's been a lot of learning some mistakes.

But, you know, I, I had to
get rid of a bunch of bison.

I had to.

Yeah, when we got what I call the
Ponderosa, when we got our, our, our

ranch here Marissa and i's first ranch
property in 2021, we hit it hard.

Like I went out, I invested in some
really good breeding stock and I think we

were up to, I don't know, we had a lot,
I don't know, Marissa probably knows it

better than me, but we had almost 40 a

herd of 40 and we only
had, we had 199 acres here.

And so I'm like, we got a lot of
grass, we got more land, let's go.

And I learned real quickly that
we had too many and I worked with

the NRCS and my stepdad, Kevin
works for the Noble Foundation

and well, you know, the Noble Foundation.

Did the switch to regenerative, you
know, I don't know how many years ago.

And, and they cut a lot of employees
and Kevin made it through all that.

'cause he was, you know, they love
him and he does a great job there.

And Kevin was learning all this
regenerative stuff as Noble was

switching.

And so I started hearing that more
and Kevin would come home and tell

us these things that Noble was doing.

And so all that's kind of started
going in my mind working with the

NRCS and some local burn associations
and watershed associations.

I was like, this is one whole picture.

Let's, let's, let's do it.

You know, I'm like, there
everything is making sense now,

let's just put the time into it.

And so I've had to decrease my
bison herd and now we're down

to 20 and the Big Joe herd and.

We, I've got cover crops out here.

I'm sitting here looking at 'em.

I got cover crops out there,
hip, hip high, and I love it.

I mean, it, it's

awesome.

And you know, I, it's, it's really cool.

And I, and just, I like
to use the word holistic.

You know, I,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
I'm a bird ding-dong.

I, I like ornithology and, you know,
I like care about what birds are out

here, you know, all those things.

The dung beetles, and, I
don't know, it's pretty fun.

So I, I enjoy it, but

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: just
off topic, just a moment.

Birds, I don't know how big you're into
podcasts, but the science of birds.

I love that

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Really?

Okay, I'll add that Yeah.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: of

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Science of Birds.

I like it.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: So when you
think about regenerative practices,

one of the things, or you're moving
your animals more often, are you

all able to do that with bison?

You know, as we try and mimic nature, a
lot of times we come back and say, well,

bison grazed and really closed herds,
and they migrated across the landscape.

Do you still see that, that the
bison, gray grays very close to

each other?

Are you having to use electric
fence or all your fencing permanent?

How are you facilitating that movement?

Or do you need to.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

When we first went into, you know, kind
of building all this new fence around

the property, that's when the Virginia
thing kind of started coming in and one

of these NRCS guys I work with says.

Well, I was like, yeah,
I wanna cross fence this.

'cause I was signing up for the
Equi program and I was like, yeah, I

really, I just wanna cross fence this.

And he looked at me and said, why,
why, why do you wanna do that?

And he is like, I get it, you know,
you wanna use the program and stuff.

And he said, why don't you
just move 'em and, and let them

decide without building a fence.

Let them decide where
the grass is, you know?

And, and so all that kind
of started dawning on me.

And then we also used prescribe
burning patch burn grazing essentially.

And so the bison do still do the
same thing, like you're saying.

They, they graze in these mobs
together in one, one group, and

they're all moving constantly together.

And so.

As we've done this more regenerative
thing, I want to mimic what they would

do, you know, in the 17 hundreds.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: I wanna,
I wanna replay that inside of a fence.

Obviously it's very difficult to,
to repeat history, but, you know,

the way I want to treat them,
I wanna treat bison like bison.

And so last year we put in our very first
hot wire, and this spring early summer,

I'm actually going to do the movement
of mob grazing or adaptive grazing.

For the first time because I've
got 'em trained with a hot wire,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
I really want to like move them

on a daily basis kind of deal.

And this is where I struggle a
little bit because I'm like, okay,

well if I want bison to be bison.

You just let 'em roam, you know, let's
move them from this 80 acres to this,

80 acres to this 40 acres constantly.

Right?

But

bison picky and

I went to an understanding ag training
with Gabe Brown and Alan Williams, and

it was at the Bad River Ranch, which
is one of Ted Turner's ranches up

in Pierre, South Dakota.

And so I went to that training for a week
and we actually went on the Ted's two.

He's got two properties up there.

And we went on and looked at the
bison and there was this young

girl, like she's, I don't know, 18
or 19-year-old college student out

there on one at the Bad River Ranch.

And she's moving 200 ish
yearling heifers around.

With one strand of hot wire out
in the middle of the Great Plains.

And I'm like,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yes.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
oh my gosh.

And I was just, I was
like, I wanna do that.

I'm like, if this 18-year-old girl out
here can do this with over 200 yearling

heifers on up, you know, I don't know how
big bad River Ranch was, but it's massive.

And I'm like, if she can do this
I'm like, that's what I wanna do.

And that's where I kind of learned
about Gabe Brown and Allen.

You know, they were like, you
gotta force 'em to eat it.

You

gotta bison our picky and you
gotta force 'em to eat it.

Hold them there for a little
while and then move them.

And so that's maybe me and you can do talk
about this at the end of summer again,

and I'll tell you how it went, but I'm

gonna try it.

But I've been training them
with hot wire and I, I, I, you

know it, I'm training adults.

I, you know, I

should be training the cabs and the
yearlings, but I'm training adults

now and it's been a challenge, but
they honestly are respecting it.

And so it's been, it's been working.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh, very good.

That, that'll be interesting
to see how that goes.

And then we mentioned you've
got that YouTube channel

so that people can follow along

and we'll have to get an
update out there on the grazing

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

I'll, I'll let you know what

my it'll be interesting, but I'm,
I'm really anxious to do it and I'm

really happy with our, it's raining
right now and we've had a lot of

good rain here recently, and so

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: we have, yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

I know you've been
getting some out too to,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Yes, except I'm living wrong.

Here we got three and three quarter
inches over the last weekend.

So to all those days, I
didn't dump a rig age.

My parents lived two miles up the
road, and I think dad thinks, I think

he said six and a half to seven inches

is what he got.

So it's like,

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh my.

What happened?

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: And we, we
don't graze any cattle up there where he

lives.

That's actually my grandpa and
Uncle Graze cattle up there.

I'm like, I need to water down

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: yeah.

yeah.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: so.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
That's crazy.

I think we got five

in that.

Yeah.

So it was really good, but it, I'm
anxious to get out there and, and try it.

And and you know, the great thing is,
is about the whole regenerative thing is

it's these, these bison love native grass.

And so

like, we have a lots, and, you
know, we're trying to restore

native prairie and stuff.

And so I, I enjoy that part of it.

And yeah.

So

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Very good.

It'll be interesting to follow along with

that.

Dusty, it's about time, which
we transition to our overgrazing

section, but before we do, do you
have anything you want to add before

we jump into our overgrazing section?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
No, I don't think so.

We I, I can, I can talk bison
for a long time, so I don't

wanna get carried away.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650:
and I think that's great.

I, you know, I try and
monitor the time a little

bit.

I'm, I'm going longer on podcasts
because actually that's the

complaint I want, that, I want.

No, that's the complaint I get.

I get people saying they could be longer.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Really?

That's good.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: to lean
into that a little bit more.

And it's longer than what I typically

listen to a podcast, except I've
been paying attention and actually

I'm listening to longer podcasts.

So

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: I it's
a natural evolution, I think.

So we're going a little bit

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Well, good.

Okay.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Let's
transition to our overgrazing section

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cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: and
for overgrazing section, we're

gonna take a deeper dive into
something about your operation.

And the thing we're really gonna talk
about is getting started with bison.

So you mentioned earlier that, hey,
we could use more bison out there.

how would someone go about
even getting started?

Are there special permits needed?

I know you mentioned on fencing what
you all did, but just kind of talk

through that process for someone
who's interested to get started.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: So to,
to have bison in the, as far as Oklahoma,

as many, I mean, lots of, lots of states
if you're considering most of the farming

states, I guess I don't think there's
any permits that you have to have unless

there's some strange state out there.

But you you don't have to have any
special permit or anything, first of all.

But, you know, the, one of the
first questions that I always

get is fencing, people always

wanna know what type of fence
you have to have bison in.

And the most important thing about bison
ranching is you gotta keep 'em happy.

You keep those, and, and that's
just, I think this applies

to any domestic livestock,

you know, that we talk about.

But you've gotta keep those animals happy.

You give them fresh water, good
water, you gotta give them hay,

whatever time of the year, give them
grass and, and and give them some

cubes and treats every now and then.

And, you know,

that's,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: I'm
gonna stop you right there.

That's how my wife keeps me happy.

She makes some cakes and

cookies and, yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: yeah.

That's the same thing.

You gotta, you know.

So, and, and, yeah, I always
talk about a home base.

You know, they, they, they need that
home base and they need that feeling

of like, Hey, I really like this place.

And so with that, the fencing thing
is like I said, we do six strands

of barbed wire for our exterior.

We do our T post every 10 feet, I think.

And, and, and, and like I said,
it's, it's almost the same height

as, as a typical cattle fence.

We just drive those.

We get a taller T post and we drive
it down further to like four studs, I

think is where we go to above the flag

and

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: keeping
'em happy, staying in your fences.

I've had issues where my only issues
is, one, it's human error, leaving

a gate unlatched, or not paying
attention to your water crossings.

Those are human errors.

Those are, those are things
that you can control,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: you
know, patch and fence up and those things.

Where you can't control
bison is two bulls fighting.

They're gonna

knock your fence down more than
likely, and that's, you're,

you're just not gonna stop 'em.

There's nothing you can
do until they're done.

They're done.

Now, that only typically
happens from July.

To August and September, right?

Breeding

season, that's when things get hot and
heavy and we've had to manage that.

So again, it's good management.

We have an a mature bull
and we have a younger bull.

We don't put two matures together.

That's where you've got issues.

And so we've, we've, you
can manage it like this.

So, and, and, and maybe I should go back
a little bit, but one of the first things

that I learned when purchasing bison is
Doc Parsons told me, he said, when you

buy bison, make sure you get good ones.

Make sure you get good animals.

And I think that applies to any
type of livestock that you get,

depending on what you're doing.

But of course, in this case, I wanted a
good breeding stock to start off with.

And luckily I was.

You know, doc is my mentor
today and, and has been since

we purchased bison from him.

And, and we started off with good genetics
and a good breeding background and stuff.

And so that was kind of my
conservation herd and I built off

of them and I still have 'em today.

And so I think it's important
to start off with good animals.

You gotta have good confirmation,
pay attention to the genetic side

of it, and then, you know, you can
really dive into the fencing and

the watering, and the handling.

Handling is probably your, your,
your next biggest challenge, like I

was mentioning earlier, is having a

good handling facility.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah,
let, let's talk about good animals

for just a little bit.

We had Becky on a podcast a few episodes
ago and you know, she was talking about,

you know, start with quality animals.

And when we go out as we've got beef
cattle on hair, sheep, I can identify

good animals, look at their genetics
or pedigree and stuff, and know

that when you're looking at a bison,
how do you know it's a good animal?

What are you looking for?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
So I did livestock judging when I

was in high school, and I learned
how to kind of look at animals.

I'm, I wasn't the best, but
I learned a lot about it.

And I think about a cow, you know, I think

about the square body of a
cow, the length and the loin.

You.

That doesn't deviate
very far off of bison.

Now a bison is built different, right?

The,

the hump changes things up.

But honestly I go back to those basics

of what I would learned as a
livestock judging, looking at cows

and bulls and stuff like that.

You want that box figure.

Now the only dig, the only difference is
I raise planes, bison that's my focus.

There is two species of bison
in North America, and that's

the woods and the plains.

What you see mostly in the United States,
90% percent of it is the planes, right,

that you're thinking the Native Americans,
the bison roaming right way before us.

Those are planes.

Bison, the woods, bison are up North

Canada, even into Alaska.

So on the plane's, bison, you know, one
of the things I look at is that top hump,

the top of that hump, it needs to have
a gradual slope all the way down to the,

that pin of that that tail, the very

beginning of that tail, right?

And so you want that na natural
slope to occur, and that's

a plains bison typically.

And so I kinda look at those.

I want the box figure.

You want the brisket
to the hump to be deep.

You know, I, I go back to a lot of those
things and you know, I I, you, when it

comes to woods and plains, you kinda,
you need to know what you're looking at

because and, and also that's the breeder's
responsibility to determine if they've

got woods in their breeding stock or not.

But.

Also feet.

Feet is important in bison.

You know, if you're looking at
the top of their tail and you look

straight down, it's no different
than how you would judge cattle.

You know, you want the top of
that tail in that foot to be a

straight line all the way down.

And because you want those animals, if
they're gonna be your conservation herd

or your breeding stock, you want them
to pass on all those good traits to

your offspring.

So those are just some
examples that I look at.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

Excellent examples there.

And way to visual or to, to auditorily.

Tell us some visual

identifications we need to look at.

One thing you mentioned there
was woods versus planes to

look at and be able to tell.

Is, is there DNA testing to identify
which subspecies or species do you have?

Or are they visually different?

Like you can look out there and say,
oh, that's a woods, that's a plains.

Of course, if you start crossing them
that that dividing line gets blurred.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: it does.

And that's where, as bison ranchers,
that's where, and, and this is

becoming a more popular thing
now that you're bringing it up.

There's people that are mixing those
woods, bison in with the planes,

which I'm not a huge supporter of.

But.

You can definitely look at a
full woods and a plains and, and

you can notice the difference.

Like

one, one of the differences is a woods
bull or a woods bison, their hump comes

more forward to their back of their neck.

And woods bison are typically taller.

They're kind of

a bigger framed animal.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650:
A northern animal.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: I
mean, yeah, pretty typical stuff.

And, but they're more narrowed
bodied, you know, to obviously

fit between the trees in the

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yes.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Unlike a planes is gonna be more of

the bulldog front, you know, like a,
you know, American bulldog or whatever.

Look and so, and then also neogen and
the Canada Bison Association offer woods

in Plains test, which we've parked.

Partake in, in before.

So, they, you can pull hair or
get a tissue sample from their

ear and you can send it in and
you can get a Woods Plains test,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh, okay.

And that that'll come back and say what
percentage of their DNA is either woods or

planes or Yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: yep.

And, and you can, you can do that
to verify it, which you, I, I try

to encourage people to do that just
so when you sell those animals,

you know what you're getting.

And

there's proof there, but you can
look and at some of the planes,

bison that are crossed with woods,
and you can see some traits in there

that are, you know, obvious, Hey,
this is a woods, this is a planes.

But they're, they're toying with it
and they're making a different animal.

And I think genetically it.

We need to keep, we need
to keep 'em separated, but

that's another story.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

Another story, another debate.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
that's right.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

When, when we think about someone getting
started with bison, they identify good

animals and they're able to get started.

Is there a.

Are you only going to go into the cow
calf portion of bison reproduction,

or is there a feeder industry as well?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

So absolutely you need to know your goals.

What, you know, why, why are
we raising these animals?

Are we doing it just for the
nostalgic of being in your pasture,

or are we gonna go after something
here of breeding stock or meat?

Whenever I got into it, I was obviously
passionate about the animals and I

wanted to be a part of something, of
trying to raise an animal that, you

know, the numbers almost just disappeared

and.

You know, so I, I wanted
to be a part of something.

I wanted to contribute to that.

I wanted to raise them
mostly for breeding.

That's when I started paying to
paying attention to genetics.

But then I realized, like me and you
talked about earlier, we we're in this

thing, but we're not making any money.

Right.

You know,

because because it takes
so long with bison.

So Marissa and I started thinking,
well, let's, and we started building a

following and stuff, and we're like, how
can we share the goodness of bison with

people and, and the quality of the meat?

And so we actually had to go out
and buy some meat bulls, and that's

where we started our meat business.

Because we, we kind of just
jumped the ship faster.

We just went to it quicker.

But, 'cause we wanted in, we wanted
to figure the meat thing out.

I'm like, well golly,
we're not making any money.

We gotta, we gotta do something here.

So went and bought some bulls.

And we started in the meat thing
there processing and all that.

And so I think that was 21
maybe when we started that.

And that's when we got into
the snack sticks, the jerky,

and then the frozen meat.

So yeah, it's definitely like,
are we just gonna do a cow

calf or are we gonna do meat?

Because in this industry there's,
there's a definite line there.

There's some people that are just raising
for meat, all they care about is weight.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: And
then there's, and, and there's it,

I know this goes on the cattle too,
but there's a side that's focused on

genetics and breeding good animals.

So I'm kind of a, I'm a focus on
genetics and breeding guy first,

and then I'll take whatever animals
that I don't think personally.

Are meant for breeding or
should be in the breeding line.

We, we will take some of those
and put in our processing side.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yeah, yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: So

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Now with,
with someone thinking about bison,

is that something that you're only
going to run bison, or could you

run bison with cattle, or is it
preferable or suggested you don't?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
I, cattle, I, I would say no.

People have asked me that.

I, I wouldn't encourage it.

I'm not saying it's possible
because it is possible.

I know there's people that do it.

You do have a chance of
creating a beef low, I

think somewhere in there,
depending on what your program is.

But which I highly discourage beef low.

But I think you could do it,
but it depends on obviously how

much ground you have and stuff.

Something that we've talked
about is integrating goats.

And here's where it gets really
interesting is, you know, you see the

multi-species grazing methods, you know,
by some of these regenerative people.

And I think it's awesome and I
think it's really interesting.

And we honestly thought about integrating
the goats, but here's a trick.

In bison, there's a disease
called MCF, malignant QAR fever.

And goats has not been proven that goats
can carry it, but sheep a hundred percent

carry it.

And it's typically hair sheep.

Hair

sheep carry it.

And I don't know, it depends on what
vet you ask, but I don't know if

show lambs can can carry it or not.

But I know that.

A hundred percent hair, sheep are
probably the number one on the list,

which is tough because the hair sheep
industry has grown in, in our world.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: oh, yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
you know, and I get it.

They, that's, that's, that's a good deal.

It's great.

I mean,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: I.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: that's,
I've got friends that have 'em, so, it's

they carry that and the, it, it's, it's a
very ongoing and popular debate on that.

And so honestly, you can't, I wouldn't
even take the chance of sheep at all.

It's like an airborne disease.

You, they can get it within
five miles, supposedly.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh wow.

And with the popularity of hair

sheep, that's going to be covering huge

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Huge areas.

Yes.

And the goats, it hasn't been proven yet.

That they carry it, but there is a
consideration that they can be a carrier.

and

and the thing about bison is
if they get it, they'll die

with like three or four days.

It's, it's

a very quick and painful
death they go through.

And so it's a touchy subject
in the bison world for sure.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Is
there a vaccination for that?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Not

yet.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: even work on it,

because the bias in industry is not huge.

So getting someone to work on it
may be a little bit of a issue.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
They do have a vaccine out there,

but they haven't released it yet.

They,

we get updates on it every
now and then at bison events.

But they have something, but
they haven't released it yet.

And I, I don't know much about it.

I know that the state vet here
in our state of Oklahoma is

considering pushing some laws.

You know, about people bringing hair sheep
in or people bringing bison in and kind

of protecting the farmer rancher from,
you know, insurance wise and all that.

So, it's kind of, it, it's touchy
because it's, it's, it's, it's very,

it can be very detrimental to bison
and it, it can happen fast, so,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Well,
I'm not familiar with that at all.

Yeah, and we, we run a few hair

sheep here, so, yeah.

That's interesting.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

It is.

And, and I know the hair sheep, it's, it's
popular when, you know, we're, we're not

very far from the Dallas Metro

two hours and there's there's some
ethnic groups there that just,

you know, that love those type
of animals, the meat and stuff.

And so, I, I see more
hair sheep around here.

Obviously there's the, the some
around us are, they're far away.

Far enough.

But it hasn't affected us.

But I, I could see ranches out there and
I know some ranches that have had to deal

with people bringing in hair sheep and,
you know, on the other side of the fence.

And that's just, it's

scary.

So, but I, going back to it, I
honestly considered the goat thing.

I'm just a little scared, honestly
to I'm sure that we could run the,

and, and I, let me go back a second.

I think a lot of these, and I'm not trying
to point the finger at hair sheep, I'm

just saying I think that a lot of these
animals that go through these sale barns

are getting it and they're passing it

on, and then hair sheep only
shed that disease during a

certain period of their life.

They're, they're shedding it or whatever

is what I've heard.

So

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: I
don't know if it's manageable yet.

Yes, it'd be awesome if there
is a vaccine for it, because.

If I could give something to some,
some goats, like we we're trying

to cut off our rip repairing zones.

We're trying to do that now and protect

our creeks and stuff, and repairing zone.

And so I would love to throw the goats
in there just to make up the difference.

But I It's scary.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Right.

That, that's a big risk
because bison is your business.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You gotta be very

careful about that.

And what, what, I'm also hearing
that if you're interested in bison,

that may be the, the area you need
that you want to go into, you may not

wanna consider some of these other

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

How have you found, and this this a little
bit off of getting started with bison,

but just if you're getting started with
bison, you're looking at that end market.

So how's the meat market for bison meat?

How's the breeding stock market for bison?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
the meat's great.

Right now we're at some of the highest
levels of of pricing in five years or so.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: we
you know, bulls right now, I think

processing weight bulls, you know, over
a thousand pounds are in that four, $4

and 60 cents range or somewhere in there.

It was,

I it's, it's pretty good.

Right now last year last sales season
was the highest it's been in a long time.

And I think that the key about the bison
industry, if you, you know, I go to this,

the bison conference every year and.

You've got three or four huge bison
marketing processing guys there.

And you know, their thing is
there's just a shortage of bison.

And,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
you know, you kind of look at that.

And I think to personally, to me, if you
look at the cattle industry and where it's

at, and you look at the bison industry,
bison meat is becoming more popular.

People are realizing the benefits,
the health benefits of it.

And there's, I think there's always
gonna be a shortage of bison.

Does that make sense?

You know, I think
there's, it, it's growing.

And so, you know, the, these animals
were in the millions here at one

point, and obviously that's changed.

It's, I think we're around five or
600,000 now in the us and I could look up

the stats for you and give them to you.

They, I get emails on how many bison
are being processed and stuff, but.

According to those three or four big
companies, there's just a big shortage.

And so they're encouraging more
bison ranchers, which is something

that I've done since I started
raising bison and doing the channels,

encouraging people to raise bison.

'cause I think they're just cool animals.

So, yeah, go ahead.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Well the
turnaround on, you know, we talked

about this earlier, if you get
started in bison, it's a while before

you have any marketable animals

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Absolutely.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: and it's more so
than even in cattle 'cause you're working

with some shorter or some longer times,

I guess would be the
correct way to say that.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: I,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: So that market
is gonna be very slow to change and react.

Do you

yeah.

is the pricing of Bison related
at all to the pricing of cattle?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
I think if you ask some guys,

they'd probably say yes.

For me it's, it's hard to, I don't know.

I, I, I think it probably does,
especially like the imports and stuff, all

that, that kind of went on.

You saw the price of, well, it's
interesting because whenever the,

the Mexico thing happened and there
was a shortage there, and all the

beef prices are still going nuts.

The bison prices went up as well,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yes.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
you know, and

so it makes you kind of think, okay, well
there's something going on, and like, I'm,

I'm just, I'm not smart enough to figure
it out, or I don't dive into it enough,

you know, but, and that's just not me.

I probably should pay
more attention to it.

But there was, that all
happened at the same time.

So last year I was saying we
had all these, the breeding

stock prices were higher.

And,

you know, and the meat, and I think
it all is because of the meat deal.

And because you can buy cows, people were
paying because of the shortage of meat.

People were buying cows and, and
using cows as part of the processing.

And so the price, because there
was a shortage, the price of cows

went up and the, the Brett heifers
went up and the calves went up.

And so that, that all started
last year about the same time.

Some of those imports stopped.

And anyways, I, you know, one of
the things about you were kind of

hit hitting on it is you have to
wait until they're two years old.

But that's why people may not
understand that bison, why, why

it's so much more expensive when
you go to the store to buy bison.

Why is it so much more expensive?

Well, you can get that
steer to at 18 months, you

can get him a thousand pounds at
18 months, it's gonna take six

more months to maybe get that
bison bull at a thousand pounds.

You know?

And

so there's a lot more inputs
during that two years.

And so that's why I, bison, I always like
to tell people, well, here's the reason

why bison's so much more expensive.

And there's just more time, more input
for that rancher, more grass, more

feed.

So, you know,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
that's something to consider.

Why, why it's more expensive.

But you're also getting a very lean, you
know, low in cholesterol, low in fat,

you know, animal meat, healthy meat.

So.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Before
we transition to the famous four.

Are there any tips on cooking bison meat?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Absolutely.

Yeah.

I always tell people 'cause we're
used to cooking beef so much if

you are chicken, whatever it is.

But like for us it's beef.

Don't overcook bison.

It's very easy to do
that compared to beef.

That's why I use beef as an example

because you know, you may throw
on a ribeye beef ribeye and

you cook it X amount at this
temperature, a bison is gonna cook

much faster because it is so lean.

So the key is for.

People cooking bison
is, don't overcook it.

And I will say that if you
have a bison well done.

I'm a medium rare guy, and most
people in my family is medium rare.

If you eat a well done bison, you're more
than likely probably not gonna like it.

I I would never encourage
somebody to overcook bison.

And, and I say that and I warn 'em because
I don't want 'em to have a bad taste

and a bad, you know, feeling with the

bison because then you're
like, well, I don't like it.

Why would I ever eat bison again?

And unfortunately this happens.

If you go to a restaurant, you get
a burger or a steak or whatever,

and they're cooking bison.

If they don't know what
they're doing, they

overcook it and you eat it and you
go, well, why would I ever go and buy

that again?

You

know, they're just gonna go back to beef,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yes.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
you know, and, you know,

whatever's comfortable to 'em.

They're like, that bison was
terrible, so just don't overcook it.

It cooks

much faster.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Excellent advice there.

I don't believe, as I'm thinking,
we've ever cooked bison.

I've had bison out at restaurants,

but I have, we haven't ever cooked any,

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah,

Well, it sounds like you
need a box sent to you.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: it, it does.

Yeah.

My wife will be so excited.

I found something else to spend money on.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
There you go.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Act actually,
wait, you should you should have

sent a box of bison meat so we could
have discussed it on the podcast.

Wow.

I missed a great

opportunity there to

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Well,
maybe when we, if we come back to this,

I'll let you know the disaster of trying
to do adaptive grazing with bison.

We can,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh, there we

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
yeah, we can set it up.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Dusty,
it's time to transition to

the famous four questions,

Speaker: Are you looking to add
functional traits to your cow herd?

For over 30 years, GBT Angus has
been developing cattle that best

fit a low input environment.

Fertile, functional, practical,
and predictable Angus genetics

are their core breeding values.

They implement a short 45 day calving
season to ensure only the most

fertile genetics get replicated.

Their no touch policy also stabilizes
calving ease, maternal intelligence,

and the convenient traits of
sound, functional udders and feet.

Visitors are always welcome.

Join them for their annual online
two year old bull sale held

every third Friday of March.

Please accept this as your invitation
to visit about anything genetics,

grass, or cattle management.

Visit www.

GBTAngus.

com or catch them on
Facebook or X at G B T Angus.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: same four
questions we ask of all of our guests.

And our first question, what
is your favorite grazing grass

related book or resource?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
My buddy Carson, this is your

buddy too recommended dirt to Soil,

and I loved huh

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650:
He's big on dirt to soil.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

Yeah, I, Carson introduced me
to that and I listened to it,

driving to pick up bison on a long
journey one time, and I loved it.

So that's where it started for me.

And then I went to their
class and so it all made

sense for me.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: very good.

In fact, I need to reach back out
to Gabe Brown, like early on in the

podcast journey, like episode 30,
Gabe, I had had it set up for Gabe and

then something happened and we weren't
able to make it happen, and I haven't

ever got him back on the calendar.

I

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

Yeah, you do.

He's, he's a good one to list to.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

Our second question, what's
your favorite tool for the farm?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Hmm.

That's gonna be really torn
between my hydro bed, which

is my you know, arm bed for

hay.

But to be honest with you the year
round tool is gonna be my three c cattle

feeder bison feeder, I should say.

But the cube feeder is the
number one tool because when

they see it, they know what they

get.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: yes.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
And having those cubes, this just

goes back to keeping bison happy.

They'd follow me to town in that thing

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
because they love those 20% cubes.

And it is probably the ultimate
tool because I can move them

anywhere I want.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: You know,
it's, it's the ultimate tool with cattle

and even if you're doing grass
finish, you can feed just a little

bit of cubes and then you shake
that, shake a sack and they're right

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
A hundred percent.

Yep, a hundred percent.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Our third
question, what would you tell someone?

Just getting started?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
You better love them.

You know, you don't, don't
get into this thing 'cause you

wanna make a bunch of money.

You gotta love the animal first.

They have a unique history.

They were lucky to have them.

And I think if you think I, I would
encourage conservation wise, how you

can be a part of something to bring
back a, a, a, a very unique species of

animal that just was by the millions.

It's such a keystone species on the
great plains and you get to raise it.

I would just encourage to, you gotta love
the animal and if you love the animal.

You put time into 'em and keep 'em
happy, they'll love you right back.

Don't be afraid of 'em.

And sometimes you just gotta jump
in and that's exactly what we did

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Get started.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: started.

Yeah.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Lastly, woo.

Can't even talk even more.

Lastly, where can others
find out more about you?

I.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: You can
email us at x timbers bison@gmail.com

if you're interested in raising bison.

And then all from our website, you can
kind of get and follow us along there.

It has our links to Instagram, Facebook.

We're also on TikTok, and of
course our main channel is YouTube.

And then we have our merch and meat
when we have meat in stock and we have

native pecans and some clothes all
on our website@crosstimbersbison.com.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Very good,
dusty, really appreciate you coming on.

I'm starting to say that, but
wait, there's one more question.

What question do you have for me?

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: So
I kind of thought about it earlier.

So you, you're an Okie, so you've
been around them for a while, but

I always wanna know what's people's
first thought of like a bison?

Like what is your, what is your
thought of, of maybe, I always wanna

know people's opinion of what do
they think about raising animal?

Not that you want to or would, but what is

your outside perspective of
hearing the word raising bison,

you know, of that thought process?

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: I, I would love
to except well, first off, like I said, in

fifth grade, I can remember transitioning
from drawing pickups to bison.

I've always loved bison.

And we go over to tall grass
prairie, so I can see 'em White Oak.

I'm not too far from there.

And the little Shawnee Indian tribe
used to have a herd of buffalo

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Mm-hmm.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: So I'd go
outta my way to see 'em because I just

think it's so wonderful to see 'em.

And you read about those descriptions
of the bisons on the Great Plains, and

we'll never see those, those images they
describe with words in those journals.

And it's just hard to fantom even that
because they, they just talk about it

blanketing an area and how they migrated.

So I, I come to 'em full of
fascination and if there was a way

for me to raise a few, I would do it.

And I say if there was,
there is, but for one.

My facilities would not handle bison.

So it, it doesn't make it cost
effective for me because at the

same time, I'd love to have some
out here, just even as pasture

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
ornaments,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: but I still
would need a facility to handle them.

And I love seeing what
you're doing there with them.

I love how you all interact with them, but

I just think because of facilities,
it probably won't happen here,

but I do find 'em fully
fascinating and interesting.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Well good.

That's, you know, that helps me
'cause I always kind of wanna

know what, what people think from.

From an outside perspective
of, of, of what we do.

And you kind of said it a little bit and
made me think of it as the interaction.

I think a lot of our followers love
the interaction between me, our

family, with the bison, and, and

I know this is where I struggle a little
bit of filming and creating content, but

doing it in a safe way of not showing
that, Hey, I'm not gonna go out here

and hug this bison and try to take

a selfie with it in the

middle of the pasture.

I

honestly struggle like with that all
the time, but at the same time, I want

people like to see me interact with them.

Not that I'm gonna go up and hug them out
in the middle of the pasture, right, but

it's finding that, finding that middle
ground of being in a safe place.

Filming it and showing the interaction,
but also not trying to encourage

people such as, like at Yellowstone.

I know

that's a different, I know that's

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: comes to mind.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
it does come to mind and I, I,

I see the videos all the time.

We always see the bad

of Yellowstone

National Park, you know, and that's
just because people are failing to pay

attention to the suns or the warnings
and how dangerous that animal can be.

And, and I know I'm kinda getting
a, a tangent here, but it, it, the

bison gets the finger pointed at

and, you know, and being this dangerous
animal and yeah, we, we know that, like,

I call 'em America's athlete, they can
run, jump, knock, you go through a wall,

we know they can do all those things.

So it's trying to like, you know, show
people that, that's not how it is.

They're just, they just
wanna roam and gras.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Right.

And, and they're reacting based
upon their nature and the way they

would react to alleviate a threat.

In their past, the way they're,
they're trained to alleviate a threat.

And if you're getting into their
space, that could be a problem.

And when you're talking, I don't wanna
say wild, but maybe bison that's not

as intensive as yours, their flight
zone or their zone of fight even is

gonna be greater than what yours are.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yep.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: And the
public doesn't always realize that,

but that, when we say that, that's
the same for our beef cattle out here.

You take a ram out here, you might
wanna be careful turning your back on a

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
That's very

true.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: so
people just have to be aware.

Yeah, they are animals and they're
reacting to the way they were created,

just as we react that way too.

You know,

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

And, and this

is this, I, I'd like to just throw
this little piece in here just for

people that are listing that if you
do go to Yellowstone here, here's two

things that are going on during that
time, and this is where you mostly

see all the injuries happen, you
know, of bison attacking a person is,

there's two things going on in the
national park at this time of the year.

When, when, in the summer, okay.

In

May, the, they're having babies.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Oh yeah.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650:
They, those mamas, they change

that mindset, and now they're,
they're, keeping the wolves away,

you know?

They're, that's their job.

And then also a very high intense
time when Yellowstone's getting most

of the visitors in the park is July.

There's something else going on in July.

It, it's breeding season.

Those bulls have got it on their mind
and they are gonna keep everything away

from those females as much as possible.

You know?

So the most popular time to go to
Yellowstone between May and when

school starts, there's a lot going on.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Right.

Because both of those times, whereas,
you know, most other times they would

use flight to get out of a situation,
but a cow with a baby calf can't use

flight because the calf may not be
able to go with her for some reason.

Yeah,

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: So that's
why I'm like, be aware when you go there,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Be aware.

Yes.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: not
to go there in the summer anyways.

I wouldn't say that.

I, I'd say go in October.

That's when we went.

It was just, it was magical.

So,

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: yeah.

Very

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: anyways.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Well,
dusty, really appreciate you

coming on and sharing today.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yeah.

Thank you.

This has, this has been fun.

We, we gotta do this again.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yes.

I'm, I'm game.

We probably need to put
it on our calendar or

I get busy

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: yeah.

Or we just let that email slip by.

cal_1_04-23-2025_090650: Or that

happens, you know.

dusty-baker_1_04-23-2025_090650: Yep.

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