Regenerative Ag Stories on the Grazing Grass Podcast

Cal: On today's episode, we revisit
a past guest of the podcast.

It's been four years since she's
been on, and we talk about her

transition from grazing and farming
with her dad to going out on her own.

So we will get started with the Fast five.

Our first question, what's your name

Becky: Becky Szarzynski is my name.

Cal: and what's your farm's name?

Becky: My farm name is
Ember Cattle Company,

Cal: Where are you located?

Becky: located in Fairfield, Virginia.

Cal: What livestock do you graze?

Becky: I currently graze South Poll
grass cattle cow calf operation.

Cal: Very good.

And when did you start grazing animals?

Becky: More intensively
about 17 years ago.

But grew up on a small cow calf
operation as a, as a child.

So lifelong but more intensely
last later half of my life.

Cal: Right.

I've been around grazing my whole
life, but you know, those early years

I didn't pay much attention to it.

Becky: Wasn't as interesting back then.

Cal: Welcome to the grazing grass podcast.

The podcast dedicated to sharing
the stories of grass-based

livestock producers, exploring
regenerative practices that improve

the land animals and our lives.

I'm your host, Cal Hardage and each
week we'll dive into the journeys,

challenges, and successes of
producers like you, learning from

their experiences, and inspiring
each other to grow, and graze better.

Whether you're a seasoned
grazier or just getting started.

This is the place for you.

You're growing more than grass.

You're growing a healthier
ecosystem to help your cattle

thrive in their environment.

You're growing your livelihood by
increasing your carrying capacity

and reducing your operating costs.

You're growing stronger communities
and a legacy to last generations.

The grazing management
decisions you make today.

impact everything from the soil beneath
your feet to the community all around you.

That's why the Noble Research
Institute created their Essentials

of Regenerative Grazing course to
teach ranchers like you easy to follow

techniques to quickly assess your forage
production and infrastructure capacity.

In order to begin
grazing more efficiently.

Together, they can help you grow
not only a healthier operation,

but a legacy that lasts.

Learn more on their website at noble.

org slash grazing.

It's n o b l e dot org
forward slash grazing.

For 10 seconds about the farm, we have
been feeding hay, keeping the cows up,

trying to keep 'em from chasing all the
grass because as I've talked about on

the podcast before, we were unable to
stockpile much forage for the winter.

So coming into spring, we don't
have a lot of grass out there.

It is coming up good.

But we need to get the
cows into the working pins.

So we brought 'em down and I have
started, um, grazing and moving them.

I think I'm a little early on that
if I had more stockpile forages,

it wouldn't be as big a problem.

But I'm a little bit early,
but I'm going to, I have two

goals for this grazing season.

The first, I think.

As I've talked about in the past,
last year, I got into a little bit

of an issue with cia, less idesa, and
I think that's because my cows were

doing too selective grazing, were
too selective during grazing periods.

So I'm gonna try and move more towards
that non-selective grazing and,

um, tighten that paddock size more.

The other thing I really wanna get done,
that'll be the tougher of the two, is

keeping the sheep and cattle together.

Uh, that's, that's contributed to
my part of my slow grass start.

Boy, getting that s out that's
contributed to my slow grass.

Start.

The sheep do not necessarily respect the
fences as well as I'd like for them to.

So they've grazed on a bigger area
and I didn't have them confined.

Uh, so right now I've got
the cows and sheep together.

I'm gonna see if I can keep them
together and keep 'em moving that way.

Uh, stay tuned on the podcast
and we'll talk about and see

how it goes over the year.

For 10 seconds about the podcast,
I talked to Carson the other day.

As I've mentioned a couple times,
Carson from Redmond and he mentioned

about man cattle and Veld by Johan
Zeman, and it's a book I've been

wanting to read and I haven't got read.

He mentioned that it's
available in the audio book.

I did not know that.

So that's what I've been
listening to lately.

Uh.

I really enjoying that book.

In fact, on the Friday, um, issue
of Ready Set Graze Newsletter, I'm

gonna talk more about the book.

So if you're not a subscriber, the
Ready Set Grays newsletter that I

send out occasionally, actually very
infrequently, I'm working towards

getting that more frequently.

Leave, uh, you can go to the
website to subscribe to that.

Anyway, let's talk to Becky and
find out where her journey's

gone in the last few years.

And then we're going for
the overgrazing section.

I didn't mention this at the
beginning, but we're gonna

talk more about dung beetles.

So let's get back to Becky.

Becky, you were on the podcast for
episode 35, which when I look at my

calendar, it was almost four years ago.

For one, it seems like, how can
the podcast be going for that long?

But secondly, that's a lot of time.

I, I really thought when I looked it
up, is this gonna be a couple years, but

four years ago and you were grazing South
Poll cattle on, I think it was three

different farms with your, your parents.

How has things evolved for you?

Becky: Yeah.

Well.

It's, it's definitely evolved.

It's definitely changed in the
last four years and I can't believe

it's been four years either.

I was, I was thinking it was
just like two years ago, but

Cal: Right.

Becky: when you're having fun time flies.

yeah, things have changed.

They've changed a lot and they
haven't changed a lot, you know.

So as I mentioned at the beginning
of the podcast, my, my cattle

business, Ember Cattle Company is new.

So a few years back my dad and I decided
to split the farm business in half.

And that brought some interesting dynamics
within the family between dad and I who

were business partners for 15 years.

But it also gave me some new challenges
and some new things to think about.

At that time that we decided
to do a, a farm split.

You know, I, I kind of was.

Wrestling with the, the thought
of, did I wanna keep farming?

Was this something that I
really wanted to, to do?

Because as you know, in, in the
audience here on the podcast, you

know, farming is a lot of work.

And we had spent the latter, the,
all my adult life, expanding the farm

to encompass three separate farms.

Currently we're down to two, we sold
one of 'em 'cause it was just a smaller

acreage farm and ended up selling it
to a high school friend of mine who has

a goat dairy who makes amazing cheese.

So it

works out great.

Cal: yes, it

Becky: yeah.

And so we're, we're at two farms now
and yeah, so I was, I was kind of.

Forced to, to think if I really
wanted to keep farming or not.

It was very challenging because I really
hadn't drawn a paycheck from the farm

in 15 years, and we were kind of always
on this build, this incline of building

more land, bigger herd, and you're
just taking your profits and you're

putting 'em right back into the farm.

And I was getting really
like, kind of discouraged.

I was like, is this ever gonna
be a profitable farm for me?

Is this, is this dream I had of,
of grazing cattle at a decent

scale for here in Virginia?

Is, is that, was that realistic?

And I was starting to think that it
really wasn't, it wasn't realistic.

And, and I had multiple part-time jobs
on the side to help support as well.

And so ultimately after about
eight months of contemplating this

and kind of thinking myself sick
through it you know, I was just.

I was mentally and emotionally wore out
by the end of that eight months, trying

to figure out if this was something
I really wanted to keep pursuing.

And ultimately, obviously I'm here on
the podcast today, so I decided yes.

Cal: Yes.

Becky: I was like, if I don't
farm and what would I do?

I said I'd save up money, I'd go buy
some ransomware, and if I had grassland,

I'd probably put some cows on it.

So I was like, I'm already
there, so there's no point

in, in starting over again.

And so essentially what I ended
up doing was starting my own

business, ber Cattle company.

And that was a great learning
experience because it, it also pushed

me to go through some of these.

These aspects of starting a farm
business kind of all over again, even

though I had the genetics I needed
and I ended up working out a rental

deal for my dad of renting the, one
of the family farms from my father so

that he can get income from the farm.

And I can have management over
that farm that I already knew.

So that worked out really well,
but I needed to get, you know,

the business up and going.

I had some new ideas and, and
again, kind of silver lining of

it was that it, it was kind of sad
that we split a little bit, but.

Since then, my dad and I's relationship
is, is great and we still actually help

each other as much as we did before.

So things haven't changed
too much in our dynamic.

But now I can really focus on the
grazing management, cattle genetic

focuses that I really been wanting to do.

For folks who know, who work
with families, sometimes you can

butt heads on different different
thought processes and mindsets.

And so that's really afforded me the
opportunity to do that and see if my

ideas and my mindsets actually work the
way I think that they could or should.

So that's been great.

And it's funny at the time that that was
going on, I was also, one of my part-time

jobs was helping a grazier mentor program.

So I was helping a bunch of new
beginning grazier get paired up with

experience grazier so that they could.

Have someone to kinda
lean upon for support.

Cal: Oh yes.

Becky: And so here I was kind of going
through the same process as a lot of

these beginner farmers of starting
the farm business all over again.

And so it was just really, really
interesting to be kind of in

that seat with them as well.

And and then two, you know,
again, having to kind of step

back and, and rethink about it.

Farming was something I
wanted to continue to pursue.

It really helped gimme a
new perspective on farming.

And so when I decided to, yes,
I'm gonna keep farming, my new

business is Emper Cattle Company,
this is the direction I'm going.

I really had a lot of
motivation behind it this time.

And, you know, because if you stay in
farming for so long, you do it your

whole life, you kind of hum drum.

It gets mediocre.

It's the same stuff over and over again.

And so for me to have to sit down
and really think about what I wanted

in my life, what I wanted with my
farm it really gave me that push.

And so, again, it was a hard time
to go through, but I'm really

glad on the backside now that
I, that I went through that.

And it's been, it's been fun.

It's been a, a new learning
experience all over again for me.

Cal: I, I would think getting
started on that, you know, whenever

you start a business, you're
energized, you're motivated.

But like everything, the longer
you do it, that motivation wanes.

You're not as energized and you,
that's when that resilience and

dedication and discipline comes in.

All things I need to work on.

But by, by taking over your own and
getting started on your own path, I'm

sure that reunited all that, the love
for it and going forward, I do think

it's really interesting family dynamics.

I went to college, came home, dared with
my parents for a number of years, and then

we sold out the dairy and I worked off
the farm, but I continued to help dad.

And as I've matured, not age obviously,
but as I've matured know, dad and I

get along much better than we did when
I was younger and we butted heads.

We didn't agree upon direction of
everything and much better now.

It, it's really interesting because
I think totally independent, I

can do all this, but then I find
myself, we do something and I call

dad to talk to him about doing it.

I'm like, but I did this so I
can just do it on my own, you

know?

But, but dad and I are in
constant communication.

I mean, I talked to him this
morning before the podcast.

Um, in fact, right now since my lease
land borders my dad's land and I use

our facilities here, we have our cattle
running together right now, so, you

know.

Yeah.

So it actually, it works out
pretty good because they're

running on his land right now.

So, yeah, mine's all getting
rest, so it's really good.

Becky: Even better.

Yeah, no, I, yeah, I, I definitely agree.

And, and yeah, family dynamics
are can be very difficult.

You know, and, and one thing too,
like, I lost my mom it's been

almost seven, eight years ago now.

And when that happened, the
dynamic between my father and I

and our business and our personal
relationship changed a lot.

And and it's, it's been a struggle, but
I've always been daddy's little girl too.

So,

you know, and I do the same thing you do,
Cal, like, even today I've got a new idea.

I'm going to still.

To say, Hey dad, I got this idea.

What do you think?

Just in case, you know, he thinks of
something that I just didn't before.

He's got many more years of experience
with life behind him and why wouldn't

I wanna, you know, bounce ideas.

So yeah, it's, you know, having family
and just having someone to bounce ideas

off of too is just absolutely amazing.

And, and the more people you can bounce
ideas off of, the better, in my opinion.

Cal: Right, because they're not as close
to the problem or issue or the solution

because if you come up with a solution,
a lot of times the ideas I come

up with I'm in love with, and so.

I, I tell my wife for one, and she'll
pump the brakes and get me back on track.

But you know, if, if she doesn't do it
and I talk to dad, dad may be able to,

to pick up some of those blind areas for

me where that I miss because I just like
this, this is the greatest idea ever.

Why hasn't anybody thought of it?

Becky: Same thing.

Yep.

I get you right there.

Cal: Yeah.

But I also, I don't even know
where I was going with that, Becky.

We'll just cut it out.

I'm still amateur podcaster, by the
way, still learning this process.

Becky: I, you know, that's, that's
part of, that's part of life,

you know, and, you know, we need,

we need to keep these moments in the
podcast so that everyone knows that this

is what happens in real podcast, you know?

Cal: Actually, to be honest,
I have evolved on that and I

do leave more mistakes in the
podcast than my early episodes.

I wasn't a very good podcaster then.

Probably still not, but
I cut everything out.

Now I leave a lot more in

just because I want this to be
real, this to be transparent.

I want,

Becky: Absolutely.

And, and you know, too, like, and I'd like
to talk more about Ben Ben's my fiance,

but we, we always talk about like social
media and stuff about how, like on the

farming posts and stuff, everyone always
talks about the good moments because it's

great, you know, you wanna share your good
moments, but we never share the bad ones.

And we always talk about like, we just
need, like, I'm gonna start some YouTube

videos or just purely the bad moments
of farming, be like, this happens,

you know, it happens to everybody.

But yeah, just so that we all know, like,
you know, we always look like all our

social media looks perfect, and it's like,
nope, that's not how it goes actually.

Cal: Right, and And we don't wanna share
those and we really need to, and when

I say that, I'm really talking specific
to, to me, because I am terrible.

I just talked to Carson
from Redmond the other day.

He was down here for a conference and we
were talking and I said, my big holdup, or

my big thing that causes me not to put out
more stuff is I can't stand to be wrong.

And I know I'm wrong.

I know I'm learning.

I know I'm evolving.

I know my opinion tomorrow will be
different than today because tomorrow

I'll be different than I was today.

It's just part of the, our maturation
or our growth process, especially

if you have that growth mindset.

So I know that's the case, but I just.

I just don't want to be wrong.

And, and so that causes me not to put out
stuff that I I try and be more transparent

on the podcast and say, you know, last
year I grazed wrong and serencia took

over a area that now I've gotta fix this

year.

but it's really hard for me to do that.

Becky: I agree.

It, it's very difficult to, to yeah, the
same thing happens with me all the time.

I, I've got hundreds of videos
that I've made to put on YouTube

or for social media to share what
I'm doing, and I never post 'em.

I just delete 'em after a couple months
because I'm like, this was stupid.

This was dumb.

Nobody wants to hear this.

Or if this really isn't the case
for them, or if I can't stand to

hear a bad comment from somebody,
I'm just like, I just won't post it.

And at the same time,
it's like, you know what?

If you wanna share your story, if you
wanna share the ins and outs, that's con,

that's contributing to a lot of people
out there who, who want to know because.

They are thinking about getting into
farming or they're getting into South

Pole or grazing or whatnot, and they,
I feel like sharing your story is just

gonna help someone else out whether
it's the good stuff or the bad stuff.

And so, yeah, I agree.

It's, it's hard to, to keep
putting all that stuff out there

and you're like, oh, I don't know.

Is, am I gonna say something about this?

Or, you know, is, is, is am I
gonna change my mind in a year?

And, you know, I'm a female so I
change my mind every five, five days.

So you never know.

Cal: Well that's, that's not
limited to females, that's everyone.

I'm, I'm as guilty of it as anyone.

And, and I will say for the
podcast, the positive comments

I get from the podcast far, far,
far outright outweigh the negative

Becky: Yeah,

Cal: But it just takes one negative
comment to put me in a bad mood for a

while.

you.

know?

I do feel, you know, a rising
tide lifts all boats that we

ought to be supporting each other.

So I, I really get confused when people
wanna put negative stuff out there.

I just don't think it's beneficial.

Anyway, I won't go on that soapbox longer.

Let's, let's talk about getting
Ember Cattle Company started.

Becky: Yeah,

Cal: You, you were able, you had access
to cattle you already had with your dad.

Did you and your dad own everything
together and can you split it up?

Or did you have some that were your
cattle and some that was his cattle?

Becky: technically all the cows were
kind of like the Mountain Glen Farm,

which is his farm business and the
one I was working with him under.

And so when I started my new one, we
just came to the terms that I was gonna.

Take half, he was gonna take half.

We sat down and sorted through them.

I had some of my favorites.

He had some of his favorites and,

and we kind of went from there.

And, and that was it was a good time to
like review what we had and how far we'd

come and in 15 years since we had started
at that point in the South Pole breed.

I know, I think in my first podcast
with you, I talked about, we

started out with Black Angus and
slowly transitioned to South Pole.

And so now we're, we're a hundred
percent South Pole or percentage

South Poles in there still.

Because we just really found
that this breed works really

well for what we're trying to do.

And what was really great at that
time for me going into Ember Cattle

Company with this set of cattle was
that I had my, I guess my level or my

standard for my cattle genetics, I.

I think is, it was as a specific
level and I wanted to make

sure that all my cattle met it.

And so honestly, when I first started
into the ECC business, I did a,

I did a pretty big call actually.

I was like, you know what?

These animals just aren't working for me.

I, it, whether it's at ma
mainly attitude issues.

I had some, some spirited ones in there
that certain people would tolerate.

I, and I just didn't because I, you
know, being, a lot of times being out

there by myself having to tag a calf
or something, that's really when they

show their, show their two sides.

Cal: Right.

It

Becky: You know, I didn't wanna
have to worry about about that.

And, and, and it just, it makes it
really unenjoyable when you're moving

cows every day that you get kind of,
I call 'em the stupid ones because

I'm like, you just acting silly.

You don't need to be acting that way.

So when I first started a lot of, I did
a pretty big call of those animals and I

kind of did a, a soft call later on during
the preg check season that second year.

And I also wanna mention that as I started
into my new Ember Cattle company business

my boyfriend at the time now fiance was
a, a huge supporter of my farm business,

what the struggles I was going through,
and very supportive and, and understanding

and willing to help in any way he could.

And now.

Being too two years into the new
business and we did a big call and a

soft call, and our grazing practices
have changed the last two years.

Our herd is, is very different than
it was just two years ago, even though

I had those foundation genetics that
I've been working with for 15 years.

And so really, really happy
with where we're at now.

Still have lots a lot of things to,
to improve on within my herd genetics.

I think that's a lifelong goal if you're
a farmer with cattle or, or any life sock.

And so yeah, but at this point we're
really happy with where we're at with our

South poles and yeah, just was happy that
we got to kind of go through that process.

'cause it, it, it allowed us
to have a lot of changes happen

those first couple years.

And that was a big

Cal: Oh yeah.

Becky: was a big change for us.

Cal: Yeah.

And an opportunity to do a reset on some
of those genetics and taking that hard

line saying, this is not the base I want
for, for my future herd opportunity.

I do think you may have
missed opportunity.

You all could have had a cattle
draft day video where your dad

was drafting and you were drafting

Becky: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cal: a whole set up.

Yeah.

Becky: That would've been good

Cal: Yeah.

Becky: and everything.

Cal: Right.

Becky: Yeah,

Cal: You, you mentioned there your
grazing practices have changed.

How have they changed and why?

Becky: So, again, for me the one thing
that has never changed for my farming

business is I wanna be low input.

I wanna do more with less, and that
can mean all kinds of different

things to different people.

And, and hopefully as we talk, I'll, I'll
keep explaining what that means for us.

But I.

For grazing purposes.

In the last two years, I was
doing more of like once a day

moves, once every two day moves.

And the last two years we have
upped it to twice a day moves.

And I know

some people might think that's overkill.

Some people might think that's not enough.

You know, two last, last year
for sure, twice a day moves has,

has worked really well for us.

And it's also allowed us to do that
soft call later on because the Cadillac

couldn't handle the twice a day moves.

They, they ended up falling out, you know?

And, and I was okay with that.

That's kind of what I wanted to do.

You know, kit Faroh has this great.

Quote that says not calling at
least 10% of your herd means

you're not pushing 'em hard enough.

You know, and I know that's really hard
to even think about, but we try not to

prop our kettle up with, with anything.

And this past year we got hot
and dry during the summertime,

like we always usually do.

And it looked like, it looked
like the the, the west out here.

Everything was brown.

Dried, crispy.

And we kept plugging 'em
through those twice a day moves.

Sometimes they didn't
have the nicest forge.

And we kept asking them to do more
and more with what we gave 'em.

Sometimes they had great forge
and they were being spoiled.

but you know, with that, moving
them, you know, we were, we were.

Slowing down the herd, but moving them
at a faster pace, like more times a day.

And for the most part, most of the
herd was fine with it, but there were

a couple that just didn't read back
and they ended up calling themselves.

But so that was the biggest change.

And, and again, having been to help
me implement the twice a day moves

has been instrumental because I
tried that in years past by myself

and I would just always burn out.

I would just burn out.

Trying to do a couple aside part,
part-time jobs and moving cows

twice, twice a day was just a lot.

But having his help is, has been
instrumental to making that that happen.

And, and we kind of, we, you know,
we usually set up the paddocks in

the morning move them in the morning,
make a paddock for the evening move,

and then in the evening time we'll
put on our running shoes and run out

to the cows and kind of make it like
an exercise at the same time for us.

Cal: Oh yes.

Becky: To go move cows and yeah.

So, so that's been great.

And, you know, the, the decent
breed back only a few fell out.

And again, just asking
them to do more with less.

And you know, one thing too that we
changed this past year was because we

were tightening them down into smaller
paddock sizes and moving them more often,

which the cows actually really love.

You know, as you know, cows love to move.

They're, they're

excited when they see you

Cal: Oh, they're mad when they don't

Becky: Yes.

They start falling, like, move us.

But with that, we didn't,
we have decent water points.

We have a lot of Richie four
ball troughs throughout the farm.

Cal: Oh

Becky: But one side of the farm is
kind of flat and rolling, and the

other side is very, very steep hills.

Like we live here next to the,
like I'm looking out my window now

looking at the Blue Ridge mountains.

So we're kind of very close to
the mountains here in Virginia.

And we, we didn't have water at the top
of the hills and so we were thinking we're

gonna have like these little temporary
little out points with hose and water

trops to get 'em to the tops of the hills.

And our well system just wouldn't
push it to the top of the hills.

They're just too, too steep, too big.

So one thing we ended up doing was
you know, we have neighbors that

live on the tops of the hills, and
so we traded them beef for water this

past summer, which worked out great.

One of our neighbors, you know,
he was kind of like, I don't like,

yeah, I guess I'll do that, but
like, how much water is it gonna be?

And I

was like.

Honestly, I don't know.

So we put a little water meter on
his outside spigot on his house and

ran a hose across his yard to the, to
our pasture, put up a stock tank, and

drank off of that for a couple weeks.

And it worked out wonderful.

They didn't use hardly any water,
but we ended up trading him.

You know, we were like, put a dollar
number on it and we traded on beef for it.

And that worked out great.

And that was just, you know, one
thing that we were trying to, like,

you don't know until you, you try
these things and we didn't know

if we could get the water where it
needed to be, and the answer was no.

But we kind of worked
around it and, and so, yeah.

Cal: But I, I love that solution
out of the box thinking.

I don't know.

Are you gonna credit Ben with that
or is that, was that your idea?

It was, I think great thinking
to try a different path there.

Becky: Yeah.

No, it's, it's, yeah, it's
been, it's been great.

Again, having someone
to bounce ideas off of.

I think we, we come to a lot of ideas
because we like go back and forth with

each other a lot about this is a problem.

He's very pragmatic.

He's, he's retired from the Navy, so
he can, he knows how to get stuff done.

I'm a dreamer, so I always come up
with all the ideas and then he's like,

let's implement this one, because this
one seems like it would be a good one.

And I've just

come up with more ideas.

So, that partnership
works out really well.

Cal: Oh yeah.

Yeah,

Now do you, you or him work off the farm
still yet, or are you both on the farm?

Becky: no, that's another, that's
another big, big thing that we both

live and work on the farm full time.

So, you know, I was in getting
ready for this podcast.

I was like, what?

I was like, what are we gonna
talk, I'm gonna talk to Cal about?

Like, and we were kind of discussing
the last couple of years and one

thing that had, can kind of came up
in our conversation was kind of our

lifestyle and how it's very different
than it was a couple years ago when

he was, you know, full-time Navy.

I didn't know him at that time.

And then I was working three or four
part-time jobs plus farming and,

and now decided to do full-time farming.

And that has been great.

And it, and we, we can do it because
again, when I started the Ember Cattle

Company business, know, I've been in
farming long enough and had enough

assets built up that the farm could.

Pay its way.

And so I, you know, I can afford
to pay off the expenses and make

a little bit on top of that.

And but we also live very, very frugally
and we raise all of our own pasture

protein, pork, chicken, beef, and we eat
a lot of meat in our household as well.

So yeah, it's, it's it's been fun
because we are here pretty much all the

time right now, we're in calving season

and this is the first year that I've,
I've been able to witness as many calving

sessions as I have, which has been great
to actually see it in action and watch,

watch these cows do their, do their thing.

So it's been, it's been great.

It's yeah, we are, we're frugal
people so it, we make it work.

But yeah, we're both on the farm.

Cal: Very good.

That's, it's always exciting or
to me that you're able to do it,

but it doesn't happen overnight.

So for our listeners who, who's
still going to that day job, it,

it took a long time to get there.

It's not something that
just happens overnight.

Becky: No, absolutely not.

And again, too, I don't want to
not credit my parents that when I

dropped outta college at 19 to pursue
a life in agriculture and they were

beyond disappointed in me to do that.

They, you know, after they got over
the shock of it they were both very

supportive with me wanting to pursue
agriculture and were very, very helpful.

And so I have to say that if my
parents hadn't been as helpful as

they were to get me started, you
know, I was able to use the family

farm as kind of the starting point.

And.

We grew from there to three more
additional farms and you know, we

put a lot of our, our money right
back into the farm business and

that's what allowed us to grow.

I do wanna say too, like that was before
land prices were what they are today.

And, you know, that is really hard
too because like, I wanna expand my,

my farm business already, but with
the land prices around here, it's,

it's very difficult to do with with
the type of farming we're doing.

But yeah, it took, it took 15 years to
even get to the point where I felt like

my cattle genetics were as efficient
as they are and to the point where.

I can, I can charge some decent
money for my breeding stock.

You know, and I think they're worth
every penny, honestly, with the

way prices are cattle today, they
are absolutely worth every penny.

But you know, it takes time to do that.

And I know a lot of people see the,
the kind of the romanticized idea

of starting a, a farm business and
all that stuff, but it takes years.

And like I said at the beginning
of the podcast, I didn't take

any income from the farm for 15

Cal: Oh yeah.

Becky: And so I had three
or four part-time jobs at,

on the site all the time.

And it wasn't until all this change
happened that I kind of decided

that, no, I wanna put all my time
and attention into the farm and,

and.

Be okay with living very frugally
and not living above your means.

But it can, you can do it.

I think you can.

And there's a lot of opportunity.

I think in the coming years there's
gonna be a lot of opportunity for

farmers, especially in kind of the
more sustainable, regenerative,

however you wanna term that.

Lower input farming models.

I think there's gonna be some
really amazing opportunities for

farmers who want to pursue that
type of business moving forward.

You just have to kind of know
where to look and be willing to

not say, that doesn't work here,
or, or don't try to, you know,

so many people will give excuses.

You can't have excuses.

You just gotta say what's
gonna work, you know?

And

that's part of

Cal: Get started on that.

You, you mentioned there that, you
know, it took a number of years to get

your grass genetics to where they are.

Were, and then as you started on your,
your own farm, you did a big call,

you're really focused on quality.

Talk a little bit about the, the genetics
and the goals you have for your cows.

Becky: Yeah, I think my goals are, are
at least I, I listen to all the grazing

gurus out there, like, you know, Greg,
Judy and Jim Garish and Al Williams

and all those guys and you know, picked
up on over the years a lot from them.

And, but also just by trial and
error, you know, obviously you

pick up on things over the years.

I have some hard cull standards.

Like there these are, if you
don't meet these, you are out.

And then I have some like softer ones
that those might be like, if you have too

many of those tick boxes, then you go.

But if you have just one, I might
keep you round until I need to do

another call again, and then you're
gonna be at the top of the list to go.

Just so that it, it's
more economical that way.

So, you know, for like, a lot of,
I think I even wrote it down some

of my coal, hard coal standards
obviously raise a good calf.

Every year you have to start
calving at two years old.

You have to breed back every year and
you have to have a pleasant attitude.

And so those are pretty, I I feel
like those are pretty standard

for a lot of cow-calf operations.

Um, but to actually follow those.

Is actually harder than you think
because you, you have a favorite

cow or a favorite heifer and, and
something might happen to that calf

and you're like, well, was it me?

Was it her?

Was it just the luck of the draw?

Maybe I'll give her another chance.

And that's, that's where you as
a farmer need to decide where

you're gonna stand on that line.

You know, some of my softer calling
standards is like, how quickly do

you slick up during the summertime?

What's your utter condition like fly load?

You know, I've been culling.

I've been culling actually pretty hard
for fly load the last seven, eight years.

And that's made a huge
difference for me as well.

Weenie weights, percentages
based off of the moms.

That's a, a softer one obviously.

I, it's great when a, a cow can
wean 60% of her, her body weight

of a calf every year, and she looks
great and the calf looks great.

You know, that, that shows me
that she's doing more with less.

And that kind of is one of the points
that I, you know, I, I focus on, but

I don't wanna go too extremes either.

So I'm not gonna sit there and just try
to have a whole herd that I like, I like

my middle of the ground mediocre cows that
aren't too extreme on any one side because

again, you start chasing those extremes
and you, you can start having problems.

So again, having a good calf every year.

Starting that too.

Being able, obviously to handle my
grazing structure and environment.

And some of, I heard now they're, you
know, we're five, six generations in,

so they've, epigenetically are just
doing really good on my farm because

they've been here and their families
have been here for so long that

Cal: Oh yeah.

Becky: They've, you know, they're just,
they're just doing their thing out there.

They're just cranking right along.

Cal: One thing, Becky, I hear some
discussion on, and I just had this

discussion just a few weeks ago on the
episode, was that Kevin, at 24 months,

you know, growing up my dad's a big
believer in the last or philosophy, which

there's, there's similar philosophies
out there that follow basically the

same principles, but that was my
first exposure they kept at 24 months.

Do you find you have any trouble
getting those, those, heifers to

breed on time and ke it 24 months?

And are you doing anything to help
'em get there or is it all grass?

Becky: Yeah.

Yep.

I've always as long as I've been
in the cattle business, have

asked her girls to have it too.

And I've heard.

Pros and cons of cabinet two
versus two and a half or three.

For us, cabinet two seems to work.

It's not, so during the preg checks,
during the fall when we do preg checks

out of my yearlings that I've exposed to
a bull, I'll usually get 80 to 85% bread,

I think is a pretty normal take rate.

And I remember when, when we first got
into South poles and South polls are

smaller framed animal, they're, you
know, about average a thousand pounds.

And the vet kept telling me, these
animals aren't br, these are not bred.

I'm like, well, they're
just smaller animals.

So it's, it's fine.

But, and then, and then, so I'll,
I'll tell you, I'll share with

you and your listeners when.

Things don't go great all the time.

This, this calving season hasn't
been the greatest one for us.

Some of our first calving heifers
didn't perform like I wanted.

And whether that was one, I think was due
to the, the extremely cold temperatures

of calving in March 1st here in
Virginia, which I think I'm gonna start

pushing back here 'cause that was just.

Not fun.

And sometimes they do have issues.

You know, first having
heifers can be a wild card.

They really can.

But for the most part, out of those
80 to 85% of those heifers this year

they've dropped the calf unassisted.

I've been watching 'em
through the binoculars.

The second that calf hits the ground,
they go from being their kind of curious

yearly self to immediate mom modes.

They go from maiden to mother really fast.

And it's been great to watch that.

And it's been it just, it sometimes
brings tears to my eye 'cause it's

just, it's a very emotional time.

But it's, it's amazing that they, they
go through that transition so quickly.

But again, first calf, heifers, sometimes
I've had 'em in the past reject a calf.

I've had 'em just have a problem
with having the calf in general.

And then, you know, for me this year I,
you know, I kept, I was getting a little

disappointed 'cause it happened a couple
of times with some heifers and I was like,

oh, what, what did I do wrong last year?

Like, what did I do wrong this winter?

Or, you know, what did, what
could I have done better?

But ultimately I kind of came to this
realization or belief that, you know,

it, it's also Mother Nature calling
out the ones that just aren't fit.

And so those girls gonna go
get finished out for some

really beautiful nutrient dense

beef for somebody.

And I, I don't give those
cows another chance.

I just don't.

And the ones that caved and had 'em
beautifully and went straight to

mom mode they stay in the herd and
those maternal traits will hopefully

pass on and pass on and pass on.

And so again, I'm willing to
start them calving at two.

You know, and whether you have those
problems at a, from a 3-year-old,

I know I'm sure you do as well.

But for us.

It just, it still just makes
economic sense to start calving

too and to get them going.

It's usually, you know, year, year
three and four when they're, you

know, they, they calve the first year.

Now they gotta get bread back,
raise a calf and finish growing.

That's can sometimes be a year that
they, they call themselves out as well.

But,

again, I'm, I'm trying really hard
to just create some genetics that are

just, that are just thrifty and I, I
don't supplement them with anything.

They do all this on Stockpile Forge.

If I have anything left by the end
of March or beginning of March.

And, purchased hay.

I, we, we make a little bit of
alfalfa gras hay during the year,

and we might give them a bale of that
every once in a while if we have it.

But even this, this next year we're, we're
talking about not even doing that anymore.

And taking, taking that last kind of
little crutch out from under them and,

and, and asking, asking 'em a lot.

But again, you know, if, if you're
not calling some of your animals out

or they're not calling themselves
out, you know, are you, are you

pushing your animals hard enough?

Are you creating better genetics?

Or are you just kind of maintaining
and are you working for your

cattle versus them working for you?

And I'm, we're trying really
hard to just do more with less.

Cal: You know, it takes that
pressure to get the diamonds

and, and I think it's, it's
important to hold your standards up

there, especially when you're in a
position to sell seed, seed stock.

It's so important you do it.

And I know as we all, like you mentioned
earlier in the podcast, you are in growth

mode for a long time when you were farming
with your dad, and I know anytime you're

in the growth mode or you're trying to
expand, it's really difficult to apply

that pressure because you're like,
I need every animal that'll produce.

But if you, if you prop up one, she
has a couple heifers and in a few

years you got three, you're propping
up rather than just that one.

So.

I I love the early hard coaling
of them, or in my opinion,

that's what we should be doing.

Becky: Yep.

Cal: Becky, let's change.

Well, actually before we change
gears to the overgrazing section,

you had mentioned on the last podcast
about maybe at some point adding

some sheep in or some other species.

Have you considered doing
that and is it on the horizon?

Becky: Yeah, we did consider it again,
I think and again, I, I'm never, I

never wanna say never on, on the sheep.

'cause we did have sheep years
ago and we surely loved the way

that they graze with the cattle.

And we, we ran them together.

During the lambing season, we did
separate them, but we had such a, we

ended up getting, getting rid of 'em.

'cause we had such a coyote, a lot
of coyote pressure on those lambs.

And so we had 'em for about eight years
and, and finally gave 'em up, which

first still kind of sat about sometimes.

And I, and I also consider it
again 'cause I, I did love the

way they work together, but.

Just really focusing on keeping,
keeping the girls going and really

focusing on, on what I have right now.

Wanting to do that really, really well
before when I start getting a little

bored with that, then I might convince
Ben that sheep are, are a good one.

I don't know if he's too convinced
with the sheep, but I might

work on him there a little bit.

We'll see.

We'll see how it goes.

Just try and do, do what
we're doing really well first.

Cal: Yeah, I, I think
that's a great way I go.

I struggle with, sometimes I
wanna do this, sometimes I wanna

do that, and it, it divides my

attention.

But if you can focus that attention on
one area, you can make greater gains than

you can if you've got divided attention.

Becky: Yep.

Absolutely.

Cal: Let's

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Cal: We're gonna dive in deeper
on, and today we're gonna, we're

gonna talk about dung beetles.

We have not, as, I think,
backed as past the episodes.

You know, I'm sure dung beetles
have been brought up, but we

really haven't covered them.

So maybe to get started, let's
just get everyone up to speed.

What is a dung beetle?

Becky: Yeah.

Well, I will preface, I am no expert,
but I, I have enjoyed diving deeper

into self-study on these little
cre creatures the last few years.

And I've given a couple
of talks on them as well.

I think they're actually
on my YouTube channel.

So if people want to learn a little
more about Dung Beatles and, and their

benefits I invite them to my YouTube
channel to look at those videos as well.

But I.

Bes are an amazing little insect that
I feel like has gained popularity

the last few years more than they
have in the past, which is great.

Because, you know, for farming,
especially in this type of way of

low, low input farming, where I,
I don't want to depend on outside

inputs to make my farm productive.

D beetles is a absolute just must have.

And it wasn't until a couple years ago
that I actually started even looking at

my dunk pats to see if they were there.

D beetles are amazing little insect
that come in different sizes.

They can be the size of like a
little pin prick, like the, the

tip of a pen to the size of your
thumb really, or your thumbnail.

And I've seen all those different.

Shapes and sizes in my own
mere pats here in Virginia,

depending on the time of year.

And for the most part, now every
species kind of has a different

season that they excel in.

Some of them are more spring, some
are more fall, some are more summer.

Even during the winter, you'll
still find them in your mere pats

depending on where, where you live.

But they do enjoy more activity
during warmer temperatures.

So springtime right now I was looking at
some pets the other day in the field and

they're already, there's some species
already out there doing their thing.

But essentially for the most part
dung beetles will fly around.

They're very sensitive
to the smell of manure.

Obviously.

That is what is their fancy.

And they will fly into a pat
of usually freshly laid manure.

That's kind of juicy and
sloppy is, is what they like.

They don't like the old mature ones
that have like the dried cap on 'em.

Those are, those are past their prime.

They want the fresh ones and
that smell attracts them to it.

A lot of the movement they
do is at nighttime as well.

And you'll actually see a lot of
dung beetles at if you have any

like night dust, dawn lights on
your porch or something, look,

look there in the mornings or in
the evenings, you'll actually see

probably a lot more beetles there.

And they'll actually be dung beetles
if you have 'em in your area.

But they'll come find a pet.

They enjoy this, the liquid
slurry part as the adult don Bele

to actually consume for food.

And what they usually do is they find a
mate depending on the time of year and

during that mating time they will start
to tunnel down through the manure pat.

Now some species, there's
three different types.

There's dwellers, tunnelers, and rollers.

And usually when we think of dung
beetles, we kinda envision like

those big dung beetles that roll dung
balls from their back feet in Africa.

And we do have rollers here
in the United States as well.

I've actually never seen one, but I,
I, I hear they're, they're around.

I usually see dwellers and tunnelers
and dwellers usually tunnel down

within the manure pat itself,
they tend to be a little bit of

the smaller size dung beetles.

And they will create these little
tunnels and these little brood chambers

where the female will deposit her eggs.

And when the the eggs hatch, they have all
this manure that's kind of around them.

And if the parents pack some manure
balls in the brood chambers for

them to eat that's what they eat.

And then tunnelers, they go a little
bit further in their activity where

they actually tunnel down through
the meniere pat down into the soil.

And it could be a couple of centimeters,
couple inches, and it could be even

feet, like depending on the species
of dung beetle and how big they are.

Usually the bigger ones will go deeper.

And they will create these tunnels and
chambers and again, deposit their eggs.

And usually within those deep down
tunnels, the parents will roll up these

balls and shove them full of these tunnels
and brewed chambers full of manure.

And that's when the eggs hatched.

The larva actually eating
those dung beetle balls.

Some of them are laid within a
ball so that they just come out

in, in the dung ball and eat that.

And not only is that another great way
of, of taking, utilizing the manure

on top and, and putting it to the soil
so that pests like flies and stuff

can't also lay all their, their young
in that freshly laid manure pets.

So the activity of the, the Don Beetles
helps with those pests species, but

it's also taking all that really great
nutrients especially that nitrogen

that's very volatile, that likes
to just go off into a gasier state.

They're putting it down into the
ground where usually sometimes 30

to 40% of the dung that they pack
into the ground, it never gets

consumed by the dung beetle larbi.

So it's just fertilizer in the ground
waiting to be utilized by other

microbes that are gonna break it down
and release it for your plants to use.

And so it's a really.

Incredible little, little creature that
can bring so much, I call it like kind

of passive income because every time I
look at 'em in your pat and it's full

of dung beetles, they can move a lot
of dung if you have a good population.

And all of that is just going
straight into your soils.

And so I know there's also been a lot of
talk about like what do our insecticides

or our pesticides or even our.

Our herbicides doing to
our insect populations.

We know that for the bees, the honeybees
is having a massive decline in population

right now because of all the different
sprays and just the different farming

styles that are taking place is not very
pro proliferating for the B population.

And dunk beetles are kind of very similar.

A lot of those insecticides
are not good for them.

Certain ones I think are less
abrasive to them than others.

But I, I would be safe to say that,
you know, if if you can't, if you

don't use 'em, that's probably gonna
be the most beneficial for your,

your dung beo populations for sure.

Cal: When you are looking
at a manure pile, how do you

know there's dung beetles?

Becky: Yeah.

So, but usually what I like to do is if
I'm just visually looking at a new-ish

when you're pat, I'm saying new-ish,
like it was laid, within the last 24 or

48 hours, depending on where you're at.

If you see holes, little holes in the
top of your near pat, that's a telltale

sign that you have dung beetles in it.

If you wanna dive further into seeing
what kind of dung beetles, you can

take a stick or your foot and just
kind of smear the top of that manure

pat across the soil and see if you
witness any of the beetles within it.

Again, some of 'em are itty bitty,
and you'll have to just kinda

sit there and you smear it open.

You kind of just sit there and
you watch for a couple minutes.

Sometimes it takes a few minutes
for them to get going if you

don't have a high density of 'em.

But if you have a lot, you'll sometimes
even see them in your path moving itself.

And so, yeah, tho that's the easiest
way to know if you've got dung beetles.

Another w great way is if it is maybe a
couple more days older, you'll sometimes

see little mounds of freshly excavated
dirt next to the manure pad itself.

And sometimes you'll see a, a tunnel.

I know a couple falls ago there's a
beetle called the rainbow scab, which is

this beautiful, beautiful dung beetle.

It's about the size of your thumbnail, and
they come in all these different colors.

That's why they're called
rainbow dung beetles.

They actually sell 'em pet
shops, I think, 'cause of all the

different colors they come in.

And the males will have
one singular large horn.

So unlike cows the males in
dunk beetles have a horn.

Sometimes they have one horn,
sometimes they have two horns.

And then the females
don't have horns at all.

And so that's one way you can
identify if it's a male or a female.

And so I, I found one of these
guys and it was just sitting in

this really great large, big tunnel
that has probably a couple inches

of dirt excavated next to it.

And I was so excited to see it 'cause
it's such a beautiful dung beetle.

And it's, and it's great too because
those tunnels, not only do they get

packed full of eggs and manure, but it
also helps aerate the soil and collect

rainwater and all this other stuff and
create spaces for other little soil

life to kind of meander around through.

So they just, it's a really, they're,
they're such fascinating little creatures.

And if you get the chance and you
never have, go out and just watch

your cow pies this summer, during the
summertime when it's warmer temperatures

is like the best time to be able to
go and witness what they're doing.

They're, you'll, you can
learn so much from 'em.

Cal: With, with your young beetles, are
they laying the eggs in that manure and

then that's their lifecycle cycle, they're
ending, or are they moving to another

pile before their lifecycle is over?

Becky: Yeah, so every species
is a little different in like

the length of their life cycle.

Some of 'em are a couple weeks,
some of 'em take a couple months.

Some of 'em take a whole year to
go through a whole life cycle.

Just depending on when they're laying the
eggs and how long it takes, the incubation

and, and the growth of all that.

But usually the lifecycle happens
within the one manure pad itself.

And so,

you know, like dragging your pastures.

I know a lot of people, we used to
drag our pastures too because we would

see all these manure pads out there
and be like, oh, that's fertilizer

that's not being utilized and we
need to spread it out over the field.

And the fact of the matter is that each
manure pat is its own little ecosystem.

I know right now, this time of year in
March when we're recording this, you

can kick over a manure pat that was laid
in, let's say December or something.

And it's full of baby earthworms.

Earthworms love to lay their
eggs within older maner pats.

And that's, you know, you'll see the
robins come in this time of year and

scratch all those meer pats out 'cause
they're after those, those earthworms.

And so again, what if you want
to utilize those manure pads?

'cause I know every time you look
at a manure pad, that's money.

That is money.

You bought it either with grass
or you bought it with hay,

it went through the animal.

And that's money fertilizer
sitting on your, your soils.

And you wanna incorporate it into
your soil as fast as possible

because that nitrogen is gonna
start volatilizing and is gone.

And if it sits on top of the soil,
it's gonna oxidize in the sun or

it'll run off if you don't have
good infiltration in your soil.

So you really wanna incorporate
it as fast as possible.

And the best way to do that is obviously
with our soil life and microbes.

And so I'm all about just trying to create
an environment that they can do that with.

Cal: Yeah, I'm, I'm all the
time, I have people saying,

well, should I drag my pastors?

I hear conversations, especially this
time of year about dragging your pastors,

and I'm always like, no, don't do that.

Let the manure just set.

It's, it's handling it.

You're disrupting the whole system
when you go drag your pastures.

I know it looks good or does it, I mean,
to me it doesn't look good because of

course I drive down the road and I see
a monoculture because they've sprayed

it and I'm like, that's so awful.

My, Grandparents live up the road
from me a couple miles, and they've,

they've dared for years now.

They run beef cattle.

Was talking to her one day,
she will be 97 this year,

but I was talking to her one
day and she's like, oh, that

pasture next to you is so pretty.

And I'm like, no, it's not.

It's just Bermuda grass that they
fertilize and they sprayed every

other living thing out of it.

I think my pastures are
beautiful, but, you know,

eats their

Becky: your your per, yeah.

Your perspectives change
over time for sure.

And

Cal: it, it does.

And with the, I I have to say,
I have seen a few rollers here.

Now.

I can remember as a kid, my
brother and I, finding rollers

in the pasture where we lived.

Really small, and I haven't seen them for
years and I'm just watching all the time.

You know, we have the other types
because I see the hose in the manure.

Dad uses a dewormer on his
or a wormer on his cattle.

I do not.

So I think I should see more
rollers on land that I'm managing

or where my cattle are running.

Now.

My understanding with the dewormer, it's
going to kill those insect side or insects

in it for a certain period of time.

But once that period of time,
most of them it's gonna be okay.

But the, the crazy thing is I saw a roller
just right outside the barn here going

through a gate last fall, and I don't
know why he didn't take a picture of it.

'cause I was like, whoa, wait.

And, uh, I don't know why
he didn't take a picture.

I, I really.

I really don't know, but just right
out there I was looking at a manure

pile to see if it had holes in it for
dung beetles, and there was a roller

just up from it, just a little ways.

And I was like, oh, wow.

I was a little disappointed because
I showed up on dad's place as

opposed to the, the land I'm leasing.

So I was like, wait, this isn't
the way it's supposed to work.

But I was pretty excited to see it.

Becky: Absolutely.

I love that.

Yeah.

It's always exciting when you, you
see a new insect or critter or plant

or whatever that you hadn't seen
before and then all of a sudden

here it is, you're like, oh my gosh.

Yeah, it'll, it, that's what makes on my
social media for the next week straight is

like the rainbow dung beetle or something,
and people are like, okay, enough.

Enough.

Cal: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Have you kept track of how
many species you've identified?

Becky: I think not this past fall, but
the fall before I was getting ready for a

talk and I was talking about dunk beetles.

I think in October is when I did rummage
through a cow pie and I had counted,

I think it was nine or 10 different
species in that one cow pie alone.

So that was really interesting
and really exciting to see.

It's kind of hard.

There's not a lot of great dung beetle
identification information out there.

There's one well, I did
talk to a gentleman Dr.

Matt Poor, who's in North Carolina.

And I actually did an interview with him.

He did a PA was part of a paper with NC
State that was studying dung beetles, and

he has a great little picture diagram of
how they brewery into the soil and laid

their brood balls and the different types.

And at the end of that paper, he has kind
of a, an identification guide of like some

of the most common species in this area
and just if you by size, shape that have

different colors and all that good stuff.

Mm-hmm.

Cal: I, I think I read in North America
there's like seven dozen different

species of them, so there's a lot.

Becky: There Is there, yeah, we're
we're, I know some of 'em are native

here and some of 'em have been brought
in from like Europe and stuff like that.

I know Australia's having a big moment
with dung beetles 'cause they've

been introducing them in Australia
the last couple of decades I think.

'cause they were having a livestock manure
issue and we're trying to figure out

the best way to to, to fix that problem.

And yeah, and different dung beetles,
like different types of manure as well.

Some kind of tailor more towards
cattle or, or dog or sheep.

Some like more of the grassland, some
of more Savannah or woodland type stuff.

So, it's, it's just, it's fascinating.

We don't, we don't think about them
enough, but they do a lot for us on our

farms and as long as we don't kill them,
they're doing all this work for us.

So for me it's like again, learning
to, to work with Mother Nature

so that she can benefit our farm
business as much as possible.

Cal: Right.

I completely agree.

And I wanna, I encourage the listeners,
take some pictures of your dung beetles,

post them online and tag the Grazing Grass
Podcast in it, or post 'em in the Grazing

Grass Community on our Facebook group.

Love to see those pictures and love to
see what everyone's finding out there.

Dung Beatles.

I, I often think I'm gonna write
a book over the Pursuit of Dung

Beatles as the story of my farm.

We'll see if I ever get it done.

Becky: Because you don't enough stuff do.

Cal: Yeah, I know.

I have all these ideas.

I just gotta focus.

Becky: right.

Cal: Yeah.

I've only heard that my whole life,

so we'll go with that.

Our, we are going to go ahead and
transition to our famous four questions,

same four questions we ask of all of
our guests and our, and you've already

a answered these once, but we're
gonna have you go through 'em again.

We'll see how the answers compare.

Our first question, what is your favorite
grazing Grass related book or resource?

Becky: Hmm.

There's so many of them nowadays.

There's so like between like publications
and videos and social media, which

is great because, you know, 10 years
ago there was hardly anything at all.

Cal: Right.

Yeah.

It, it's it's a wonderful problem to

Becky: yeah, there's so many.

I, and I gotta kind of say, I don't
know what I said four years ago.

I think I probably said the
same answer, but I'm gonna say

stock Mcgras farmer publication.

Is still one of my favorites.

It's never too long or overwhelming.

And they always have very pertinent
articles and a lot of them too are,

some of 'em are re stuff that we've
heard before and it's always good

to kind of hear it again, but a lot
of 'em are like kind of new concepts

and ideas, which always intrigues
me because if you're in this, this

industry long enough, you kind of start
hearing the same stuff over and over

and over again, and it gets repetitive.

But there's some really interesting
people that write articles in there that

are kind of on the forefront, that bring
new concepts to, to what we're doing

or finding out new discoveries, which
I think is the most interesting to me.

Cal: Excellent resource.

I've subscribed to it for decades,
but never long continuous periods

because right now I just got a email,
I think yesterday or day before that

my digital subscription just lapsed
and I know I got a email other,

or a later other data I need to
resubscribe and I haven't done that yet.

So I'm missing a episode or
a episode of issue right now.

I need to go re remedy
our second question.

What's your favorite tool for the farm?

Becky: So again, thinking back my
one, four years ago I might say

the same thing, but it's a little
different this year because, so.

I'm gonna say my a TV.

We have a a 1994 Honda, four tracks
that's almost as old as I am.

And that thing is still getting it.

We put some new tires on that thing
and some new grips on the handlebars

and, and got her looking good.

But one thing that has changed, and
it's so funny here, I am a, a, a

grazier who moves cows for a living.

And I've looked at everyone's a TV or
side-by-side setups on their, on, on

their own farms for years and years
and years and be like, I need to put

a real holder on my A TV because it
would make my life so much easier.

And of course, I dreamt
of all these ideas.

I never actually implemented them.

Luckily for me, Ben was like,
I'm gonna build you one.

So,

last year.

We finally decked out the a TV we were
using with a reel holder on the front.

It's also got a, a box that holds a
bunch of posts so we can just have

easy access to our separate post.

Our reel is at our left hand so
we can just plop it in place.

We've got another kind of basket
esque thing on the back that has

surplus posts and then also we hang,
I think we can hang five or six

reels on the, on the a TV at a time.

And again, since we were doing twice
a day moves, having that set up has

been absolutely instrumental with
the amount of time it takes us, you

know, one pass you gotta fence up.

With that too, I've also mentioned
if you know you're gonna be doing

this type of work with step-in
posts, polywire reels, that kind

of thing, do not buy cheap stuff.

Do not buy stuff from
China or, or whatever.

I don't wanna dis what they're
doing, but usually some of that

stuff is just not the highest quality

and, Really get it from
a reputable source.

It might be twice as much money, but
two, three years ago I bought a box

of some free, cheap step-in posts.

First time I used them, they were
breaking the clips were breaking off.

The, the metal spike at
the bottom was bending.

Talk about a waste of money.

And just, you know, it all went
and ended up going into the trash.

So get good reels, get good
polywire, get good posts.

Not only is it going to, you know,
some of my posts I got 15 years

ago, I have 15-year-old step-in
posts still that I use today.

So they last it's worth the money.

And more or less the frustration
that you get from cheap stuff.

You know, we're low input, but we do
spend money on a few of those items

that we know it is well worth it.

So make the daily tasks
that you have to do.

I used to call moving cattle kind
of the daily grind because it would

get monotonous over the years.

I've kind of reframed it recently into
my daily rituals to make it a little

more of a different perspective and
telling myself to slow down and enjoy

what I get to do because what I get to
do is, is absolutely amazing and not.

Most people of this planet won't
ever get to understand what

it means to move livestock.

And so if there's a daily ritual
that you need to do, make sure you

make it as enjoyable as possible,
or else you will not keep doing it.

I sometimes I can be a, a lazy farmer
if that's not a contradictory, but

if something isn't fairly easy or
straightforward for me to, to try to

do on a daily basis, as you know, most
people will be like, this is not worth it.

And again, you know, we're moving
cows twice a day, even talking about

moving 'em three times a day this year.

I know a lot of people who look at
us and are like, you guys are crazy.

You spend all that time moving cows.

And I'm like, well, you spend all
this time in a, in a machine all day.

It's just different work.

It's just different types of work.

So I know a lot of people who
spend a lot of money on a nice

truck or a nice machine because it
makes it that much more enjoyable.

Same thing, make it enjoyable.

Spend that extra money, figure out what
works for you and, and make it work.

Cal: Four years ago you
said you're ATV as well.

And I think you have a video that
talks about the way you've got it set

Becky: I do.

Yeah.

Thanks for mentioning that.

I, we did a video this past summer
so June, I think it was June of 24.

And we had just, we had just vamped it
up and it had been a couple of weeks and

we were still trying to figure it out.

But we haven't changed a thing that
we had done In that video, I did a

quick review of what the setup was,
so if you wanna, if people wanna see

what it looks like, I do have a video
on my YouTube channel that shows that

really quickly, all the, the details.

And it's the exact same as it is today.

It's worked out beautifully for us.

Cal: And the other part about buying
quality products, it's so important.

I know when we started, we try and try
to get started with cheap energizers.

They just cause more problems.

I actually still have one here.

I don't know why I have it, because
I use it occasionally and I get mad

and I put it up and then I'll, I'll
be like, well, I need to do that.

That'll work.

No, it doesn't because it only lasts
a day before it, and I are at odds.

Posts, I've tried to buy local tread in
or step in posts from local stores and

every bracket has broken off of them,
or the stake has bent now or something.

I started buying O'Brien's.

I can't even count on one hand
the number to have a problem,

and I have, I don't know, a couple
hundred of them or something, you

know, so, so spend the money for it.

It'll, it'll pay for
itself in the long run.

Becky: Absolutely.

Yep.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Cal: And our third question,
what would you tell someone?

Just getting started?

Becky: So this one might be a little DI
don't know what I said four years ago.

But I did, you know, I, I did mention
earlier in today's podcast that, you

know, land prices are very different
than they were four years ago.

It, it is, it's a, it's a tough, it's
a tough industry to be in anyways.

But, you know, for someone starting
out, you know, like I also mentioned,

I was helping out with a mentor
program for a few years there, you

know, if you're, if you're interested
in grazing livestock, first of all,

go to these grazing conferences.

You know, get, usually there's, if you're
lucky enough, your state might have a

grazing council, a grassland council.

I know Virginia has a Virginia for
Grassland Council, which is a great

nonprofit organization that puts on a lot
of educational type pasture walks and, and

conferences and bringing a lot of amazing
speakers to just start getting your

wheels, turning on a lot of this stuff.

Go intern at a farm.

Go volunteer your time to
go help a farmer say, Hey.

Like, I just, I got this idea in my head
that I, this is what life I wanna pursue.

See what the work actually
looks like, what it feels like.

And

you know, if you wanna start out,
I, I was lucky enough that my family

had a small amount of land already
for me to kind of get going on.

Which was very beneficial for,
for me if I didn't have that.

There are opportunities out there
for young folk looking to lease land

looking to cus do some custom grazing.

If, if you don't have the funds to
even buy cattle or livestock you

know, I would as start with, you know,
start with something simple stockers.

I know a lot of people wanna get into
cow calf operation right away, but if you

have no experience with cattle at all,
definitely try some stockers out first.

They're a great way to get, you, get
your knowledge base about cattle going.

You're gonna have to get into the
community of where you wanna be

though to, to get that leased land.

For me personally, I I, it's hard
for me to get even leased land and

I've lived here my entire life.

So, but the more you're out in the
community, the more people get to know

you, know what you're looking for.

Get, get a good feel
from you knowing what.

Kind of farming you're doing.

Some people are really excited about
the regenerative movement and they

might pick you for a lease over somebody
else be just because of that mindset.

So, you can do it.

And I think in the next coming years as
more of the older generation start kind

of getting to that age where they're,
you know, like my dad, he's 74 or five,

you know, he's getting to that age.

He's like, he's like, I kinda wanna
start slowing down a little bit.

And I'm like, I get it.

Like he wants to go travel, get an RV
and travel around west and whatnot.

And there's gonna be more and more of
those farmers looking to, get somebody

onto their farm to actually farm it.

They're not in it for
the money per se anymore.

They're, they're usually set on the money.

So they're, maybe they want a little
bit of rent money for their land, but

they're really looking for somebody
who wants to care for the land,

because that's their legacy as well.

They've put in a lot of time and
effort and they're looking for

someone who actually cares about it.

They don't wanna see it get sold
and subdivided or plowed under and

corn planted on it all the time.

Like, there's a lot of older
folks out there who wanna see

this young generation succeed.

And I think a lot more people are
understanding, like, if we don't get

more young folks in here, we're gonna
have some, we're gonna have some issues.

So, yeah, there's opportunity everywhere.

You just gotta, you just gotta get
out there and, and start flipping

over some rocks trying to find it.

Cal: I, I think that's excellent
advice all the way around and yeah,

action will, will beat on action.

So get out there and, and try.

Becky: I will add real fast
too on the, on the other one.

If you're going into livestock as
well I know a lot of people probably

say this, but find livestock.

That is the type of genetics you want.

It, it will save you years and
thousands and thousands of dollars

if you buy good quality livestock.

Don't buy.

If you are gonna go into calving and
you don't have much experience with

cattle, do not get first calf heifers.

Don't get heifers.

Don't go out and buy bread heifers.

Everybody wants bread heifers
and I sell bread heifers a lot

to people who have experience.

You don't have experience
and then they have issues.

Again, heifers can be a wild card and if
you're spending really good money on a

first calf heifer because you're thinking,
oh, I'm gonna get more years out of her.

Get a four or five, 6-year-old
cow who has had a calf every year.

She's proven she's a pro.

She hasn't had any issues.

They tend to be probably, they
might not be cheaper, I wouldn't

classify 'em as cheaper, but they
will give you a whole lot less issue.

They'll be so much more enjoyable
and it's just so much more of

a positive way to start out.

You want mama cows that know how
to do the mama thing, so I'd advise

either get stalkers and start with
that or get some, a little bit more

mature cows that have been through the
process and know what they're doing

Cal: Right.

So you want your cows or yourself, at
least one of you to know what's going on.

And if you have heifers, they
don't know what's going on.

And if you don't know what's
going on, it could be a disaster.

If you don't know what's going
on, cows that's done it before,

they know what's happening.

You're just there learning.

Becky: Great way to say it.

Yep.

They're worth their weight for sure.

In gold, so, yep.

Cal: And Becky, where can
others find out more about you?

Becky: So I've got a couple different
places you can find me online.

I've got a, a website ember cattle.com.

I got a YouTube channel that is Ember
Cattle Company, I think Ember Company.

You'll find me on YouTube.

I, I have all kinds of
different videos about.

What I do on the farm grazing cattle.

I also have, you know, like the a TV
set up, different things that worked for

us, things that haven't worked for us.

I've also done quite a few different
interviews with some, some of

the grazing gurus out there.

Jim Garish, he, I did a really great
with one with him this past fall.

Joel Ston who else I.

Cal: Kit Farrell.

Becky: Yeah, that's right.

Kit Farrow's on there too.

So just when I see the guys out and
out and about these conferences, I

just ask, I say, Hey, can I sit down
with you and have a little chat?

Just to try to, to get some more of the
good, that good information from 'em.

So, on there, Facebook, Instagram,
again, Ember cattle company.

And I'll just do a quick plugin.

I started a, a towel soap company business
here soon too, called Fat Carol Soap.

So, I'm all, I'm all
over the place online.

Folks can find me and, and reach out
and, and see about dung beetles as well.

Yep.

All this stuff.

Cal: Wonderful.

Becky really enjoyed it.

But we have one more question,
but we're turning the tables.

It's a question you asked me, so
what would you like to ask me?

Becky: Hmm.

Well this is a good one.

So.

Cal: I didn't give you time to think
about that ahead of time because I

was hoping for an easier question.

Becky: Yeah, no, that's a great question.

I would like to, with all the
folks that you've interviewed over

the four, maybe five years now,

Cal: Five years.

Becky: five years, that's amazing.

Where do

kind of this, the, the, the mainstream
agriculture going in the next five years

versus more of the regenerative movement?

Do you think the regenerative movement's
gonna keep kind of building or do

you think we're gonna start going
a different route or kind of what,

what are your thoughts on the future
of agriculture in the United States?

Cal: I, I really think, you know, tive
grazing, tive farming has grown, becoming

more popular, more of a buzz word, but
I, I still look around and there's very

few farms doing it, so I, I just look, I
think about the stretch of road I'm on.

I'm the only one that's moving cows or
doing anything like that, everyone else.

In fact, I'll have a number of airplanes
flying over me the spring spraying weeds.

I had saved a bunch of vets last year
that I wanted to go to seed in one

certain pasture, and they killed about,
I don't know, a hundred yards of it.

I was very disappointed.

But I do feel it's growing and
it's getting out there more.

The problem is, and, and I struggle
with this, with the podcast, are the

people that's very conventional, are
they hearing about it and seeing stuff?

And I think they should be,
but I'm not in that world.

And the people who I think would benefit
most from it, I know they've had to

see, had to have seen, you know, some
of our podcasts put out there, not

only mine, but working Cows ranching,
reboot ranching Returns, Stockman,

grass Farmer, we've got all the YouTube
channels, so they're coming across it.

But you know, I say this a lot of times
on the podcast, I can hear the same thing

a hundred times and it's that hundred.

And first time I hear it and I'm
like, why didn't someone tell me that?

I've heard it, but it
spoke to me differently.

And that's why I think sharing
these stories are so important.

I do think it's going to continue.

I think we're making progress, but.

Just went to a homesteading conference,
which I think homesteading is growing

more and more people's doing that.

And at the whole homesteading conference,
I heard stuff about, I don't know

that I heard the term regenerative
grazing, but people were talking about

rotating your cows and moving them.

That's an area I don't think we've,
we've really touched on either.

So I think there's tons of rooms,
room for growth and I think

we're going the right direction.

I don't know how far we'll get because
changing mindset takes a long time.

One thing that gives me a little bit
of hope, and I don't wanna get into

any politics 'cause I have all kinds
of concerns about politics, but with

the USDA, I'm hoping some of these.

Pesticides and chemicals that are
getting used, maybe we have stronger

legislation, stronger rules about 'em.

At the same time, I realize for
my context, I'm not using them.

That doesn't mean other
people shouldn't use them.

That's just not what I'm doing.

However, I would like to make sure they're
safe and we're using them appropriately.

So I think we have potential for
growth and we'll see how it goes.

So I told you nothing.

Becky: Well, I still appreciate the the
input that was still you know, the more

times you, the way I get to, to some of
my thoughts is you know, if, if someone

says something and it hits a, a chord
with me, I'll say that sounds about right.

And yeah, I.

You know, and it's really difficult too.

I, when my, in my younger years
when I was like, oh, I'm a, I'm

a rotational grazing guru here,
you know, doing this all the time.

And, and always sharing my story with
all the local folks who just thought

I was silly, silly little girl.

But you know, we all, we all see
the world through our own lenses

and, you know, I, I don't definitely
don't wanna be sounding like an

elitist, like the way that I'm
doing it is the right and only way.

'cause it's absolutely not.

It's just what I do.

What, where I feel like I'm
drawn to go with what I do.

And my neighbor who I'm staring, staring
at my cows right now at the window

and I'm staring at my boundary fence.

My, my next door neighbor, he farms
the, if I was gonna say opposite.

We are complete opposites of the way that
we farm and we just, you know, we keep

to ourselves, we both do our own thing.

He thinks that I'm growing weeds
over here and I think, you know,

he is got poisons over there.

So it's like, but, but we've all see
that what we're doing is, is the, the

right way and the right way forward.

And, and I think mindsets will change.

It just takes a couple generations
maybe than longer than we think.

And we'll see.

We'll see how it goes.

Cal: And, and we go back to that, you
know, a rising tide raises all boats.

That's been my favorite thing
for the last week to say, but

we're all in this together.

Whether or not they're doing
a little bit different than we

are, or totally different, we
can all benefit each other.

And I think it's important we be
inclusive rather than exclusive.

So,

Becky: Yep.

Absolutely.

Well said.

Cal: Well, Becky, I really appreciate
you coming on, catching us up with what

you've been doing the formation of Ember
Cattle Company and what's happening there.

Appreciate it.

Becky: Thank you so much
for having me on today.

Cal had so had so much
fun catching up here.

Cal: Thank you for listening to this
episode of the grazing grass podcast,

where we bring you stories and insights
into grass-based livestock production.

If you're new here, we've
got something just for you.

Our new listener resource guide.

Is packed with everything you need
to get started on your listening

journey with a grazing grass podcast.

It gives you more information
about the podcast about myself.

And next steps.

You can grab your free
copy at grazinggrass.com

slash guide.

Don't miss out.

And Hey, do you have a
grazing story to share?

We're always looking for passionate
producers to feature on the show,

whether you're just starting out or have
years of experience your story matters.

Head over to grazing grass.

Dot com slash guest.

To learn more and apply to be a guest.

We'd love to share your journey with
our growing community of grazers.

Until next time.

Keep on grazing grass.