Regenerative Ag Stories on the Grazing Grass Podcast

Speaker: On today's episode,
we have Ross McGarva.

We follow his journey from California, to
Oregon, to California, and then to Texas.

We follow it along with
different classes of beef cattle,

meat goats, and hair sheep.

Along the way, we talk about processing
and what you should look for in a

processor, and then dive into electric
fencing and some tips for that.

I think you'll enjoy.

Let's get started.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: So Ross,
we'll get started with the Fast five.

Our first question, what's your

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
Ross McGarva,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: And
Ross, where are you located?

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Now
we're in central Texas, Yvan, Texas.

So the about 60 miles west of Waco.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh, okay.

West of

Waco.

And what's your farm's name?

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
We just call it McGarva Ranch

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: what year
did you start grazing animals?

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: oh, man.

I grew up on a large thousand cow
mother cow operation in the extreme

northeastern corner of California.

Family's been on that ranch since I.

1918, I think it was, that
they bought that ranch,

but they'd been in that area.

The first of eight brothers came from
Scotland and they came to Likely,

California in 1908 I think it was.

And then herded sheep and did
whatever needed to be done and,

and sent money back to Scotland to
bring the rest of the brothers over.

So, and so family's been there
in that little Valley, south

Fork Valley for a long time.

So,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

yeah.

And what livestock
species have you grazed?

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
Cattle mostly we've had a large

herd of goats, meat goats and here
in Texas for grazing Dorper sheep

Dorper-Katahdin cross for the most part.

So,

so that, that's quite a, a most brought,
actually, we've got some chickens even so.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh,

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Fast

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743:
Well, those chickens.

may be making the most money with the egg

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Yeah.

Yeah.

We probably could change our prices,
but we, we've just held steady.

'cause we, we don't, we're not
selling direct to retail on this.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh Yeah.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: We're
just wholesaling it to those people

that, some folks that want to interact
more and more closely with customers.

So,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh yes.

Yeah.

Cal: Welcome to the grazing grass podcast.

The podcast dedicated to sharing
the stories of grass-based

livestock producers, exploring
regenerative practices that improve

the land animals and our lives.

I'm your host, Cal Hardage and each
week we'll dive into the journeys,

challenges, and successes of
producers like you, learning from

their experiences, and inspiring
each other to grow, and graze better.

Whether you're a seasoned
grazier or just getting started.

This is the place for you.

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Speaker 2: For 10 seconds about the farm
and the podcast today, I'm in Oklahoma

where the wind's been blowing like
crazy and we've been having some fires.

Nothing around me, but I know
Wyatt and Sam from episode 151.

They had to move their sheep in
the land they're, they're grazing.

I've seen some photos, some aerial
photos, drones and um, airplanes that,

just crazy destruction in some areas.

There's lots of other areas I
haven't seen much out of yet.

But um, just keep them in
your thoughts and prayers.

And with that, let's get
back to talking to Ross.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Ross, when
you think back to California and

growing up, did you plan for this
life or did you have other plans?

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
You know, it just seemed like the

path that was expected to walk down.

You know, went off to college at
Cal Poly in San Luis Obispo and,

and then went through the ranch
management program at TCU in 82, 83.

But, this might be kinda getting ahead
of, but it's part of the story as well.

So, yeah, I came back from the ranch
management program, you know, on fire,

ready to go change the world and, and
it really wasn't a a place for me there.

My dad and my brother were partners
and yeah, welcome to work alongside.

But the

I dunno, I had an epiphany when I turned
45 and I realized that was the same age

dad was when I came back from college.

And it's like, no, I wouldn't
have wanted to step aside either.

So, so went and did a lot of other
things, which gave a really well balanced,

you know, got a lot of experiences so.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: You
know, I, I came home from college,

worked here with dad on the dairy.

We sold out dairy.

I continue to live here and work
on the farm with him while I worked

off the farm with the goal, at least
in my head, that I would buy the

farm and take over at some point.

It was my late forties.

I finally had the epiphany, even
though dad had said he's not ready

to, to sell it, well, he'll let us
figure that out after he passes away.

I always thought I'd
have that opportunity.

I finally had the epiphany in my
late forties that, you know what,

maybe I need to go do something.

So.

that I have a greater
opportunity because Right.

now I just helped dad.

So that's when I got in gear
and got land to lease and

started running my own animals.

I often think back to that and
think, why was I so slow to figure

that out?

Did on my part.

Dad was very blunt with what he said,
and I knew he said it, but I always had

It in the back of my head, Hey, this
is going to go a little bit different.

And finally when, when I figured that
out, I mean, I still help dad, but

now I've got my other stuff going on.

So sometimes it takes us a

while.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
a long time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We we wound up, my grandfather
helped, helped us purchase a, you

know, small by a lot of standards.

We had a half section of
ground in, in southern Oregon,

Lakeview, Oregon High Desert,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh, yes.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
300 and so 320 acres and

215 of it had water on it.

About half of that was not reliable water.

It was first flow out of creek
with older raw water rights

downstream all snow back related.

But that's really where where I
kind of started into practicing

intensive grazing and, and falling
in love with electric fence.

Because we weren't living
on the property initially.

There was a year transition and, and
so, it had historically just been

stockers, you know, somebody else

on there.

And so, my cousin's
husband lived right nearby.

And so they, they took care of irrigating
and moving the cattle that were there

on gain and the irrigated ground and
was, well the property was split in, in

two pieces kind of north of the south.

And the uh, anyway, we had the cattle.

When it came time to ship the
cattle were on the north side of

the creek that ran through it.

Then a bridged across 'em because they,
anyway, they wouldn't across the creek.

And it took five cowboys, about two
hours to get those cattle out of

the field and then walk 'em a half
mile down the road to the scale

they were there on gain.

And I said, mm-hmm.

Never again, I'm not, I'm not doing this.

So the next year they followed me to the
scale and, you know, no stress because

I'd been moving 'em twice a day the
whole season, you know, and, and that

wasn't possible for us the first year.

But anyway, I spent that summer
building single stranded, hot

wire fences ahead of these cattle

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh yes.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: and
it served us well for 20 plus years.

You know, that little bit in poly
pipe on top of the ground, out to feed

water trough and learned quite a few
lessons through, through all of that.

But.

Yeah.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743:
So, so you came to it.

From you need, you had these stockers on

gain, so they gotta gain weight.

And that stress of that day,
obviously they didn't gain any

weight that day and they lost too

much.

So that spurred you into looking
at intensive rotation and

doing more of that practice.

Was there some other factors in there?

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
Not, not really the driving factor.

You know, if you at 30 cents gain
a turd on the downside of the scale

versus the upright side of the
scale is worth about three bucks.

You know, so,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh,

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
so in, you know, you spend a lot of

that, there's a lot of money lost
in the wrong side of the scale.

And, and that, that was really,
for me, kind of the driving factor.

And it, you know, was my own place.

I could do whatever I wanted with it.

That was, that was really
a key thing, and it was.

I didn't have to ask anybody if I could,

if I could do this.

And, and we saw tremendous,
uh, improvements in soil health.

Actually grew soil.

It was all flood irrigated,
laser plane in, or probably not

laser plane, but land plane in.

And over the course of 20 years,
the water, we, we increased the soil

height in the pastures that we couldn't
get water across the fields anymore.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh,

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Yeah.

And I mean, it's a real,
it's a real thing, you know?

No change the quality and the,
and the depth of the soil just by

walking down, you know, organic
pattern and increasing the soils.

And so it was well, yeah, let's,
let's go back to your questions

'cause I'll get to rambling on here.

You'll lose.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743:
No, no, that's great.

A, as you think about those years,
ro rotating animals and, and

building that soil, what do you, what
practices contributed the most to it?

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Really
just high, high stock density, although

not as high at that time as I did later
on in another, we'll get to that as well.

But high stock density and
also, uh, twice a day moves.

And so I would set up some moves ahead.

And I had a town job, you know, little
couple, couple hundred acres in a a

hundred and a hundred day growing season.

The 75 to a hundred day growing season,
you're not gonna make a living off of it.

You, you know, you hope to pay for it.

And, and

I had a town job, which is
kind of interesting because I.

My job to, to, to start with, the first
couple years we had it was I, I worked at

the assessor's office as an appraiser, and
the one of my jobs was to establish farm

land values for the special assessment.

And, and so I, I know every state's
different, but there's, there's typically

a farm assessment, I think in most states.

But we would do a survey and it was based
on leased leased values, you know, so

$50 an acre a month for prime irrigated
ground or Yeah, a month per acre.

And was typical.

And then you asked the
questions, you know, are you

taking, doing any of the care?

Are you doing any of mineral?

How much time you spend doing that?

You know, is it on the gain?

Is it per head per month?

You know, and, and we had 30
or so leases that we would.

Survey in order to establish these values
for different soil classes, as they were,

they're not in our CS classes, but they
were just in-house appraisal classes.

So I would throw my deal in there.

'cause essentially it
was the lease ground.

I was the operator and I, so I'd
get paid myself time and you know,

worked everything through it.

And, and, and I, and every year that I
did that, I had to throw mine out because

if that class one was at 50 dollars
per acre, I was getting a hundred.

And it would just,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: and I
was the only one that was getting that.

So it just confirmed it, it was like, oh
man, if I could do this at scale, then,

then, you know, and, but I, I, I never
really pursued, mostly because, well,

the security of the town job, you know.

Kept, kept the bills paid and everything.

And, and so it was always kind of
hard to imagine just jumping out

into the deep end or stepping outta
the boat onto the water and not

knowing if you're gonna sink or swim.

So, kept a town job for a long time, but

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743:
There's lots to be said for that

security, that safety net there

for you.

During your time in, in southern
Oregon, did you focus only on

stockers through that time?

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Yes.

Although we did we did start
our go enterprise while while

we were in that as well.

'cause we had some rabbit brush
and, and some invasive juniper

plants coming in on our dryer, on
our dry ground that we wanted to

try to you know, control a bit too.

So

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: What challenges
did the goats bring in to you when

you brought them to the stalker

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
our netting fence wasn't good enough.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Yeah,

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: and
they didn't respect the electric fence.

And yeah, it, it was kind of, my wife
laughs at this lot because it was kind

of a we, we were doing some out of
town consulting and, and I thought, you

know, I, okay, I've got 'em locked in.

I've got 'em around, gone around
this, and it's a hundred acres of

dry ground, you know, they've got
water, they've got feed in here.

There should be good.

The neighbors would call and say, Hey,
your goats are over here again, and

brush back up and gather the goats.

And, and it seemed like, you know,
through the years as we would, we

would put a known number of goats
in, in this space, you know, and

to winter 'em there later on.

And, and they'd get out occasionally,
but I'll tell you what, every, every

year that we came off of that same
parcel of ground, I was short about 50

head of goats, no idea where they went.

It

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
just gone, whether it was coyotes or

they leaked through a hole and we,
but I don't know where they went.

You know, nobody ever said,
Hey, your goats are over here.

So I don't,

I think ultimately it was, if they leaked
out, were away from the herd and the dogs,

then it was predation that ultimately got
'em, but it just always came up short.

But yeah, the goats so, so we had a,
a mixed up bunch of goats, and this

is a little nugget that we learned.

If you buy goats, buy all your goats
from one place, don't put 20 from

here and 50 from there, because you'll
have a herd of 20 and a herd of 50 and

a herd of whatever else you've got.

So at one point, you know, we
had like five or six little

herds floating around out here in

the field and nothing,
there were no co cohesion.

And so some of, some of them would, you
know, they were the ones that were always

breaching, leaving the country honest.

So I got tired of it and I,
I just loaded 'em all up one

day and took them to the sale.

Yeah.

And when I got the check back I told
Kelly, I, I think we're gonna build

some fence we, the, the value of goats.

And then, and then I started paying
a lot more attention to the market

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: and took
the lessons that we'd learned like that.

And we went and bought, found a guy
that was doing a huge grazing operation

with 9,000 head of goats from San Diego.

Clear to the Canadian border.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: And
how's he count those ever?

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
I, on the truck?

Yeah.

On the truck.

Going every, I mean, he
had going everywhere.

We had, I think 20-25
Peruvians working for him.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh,

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: He,
and he, he truly bought bought his

dog food by the truckload, you know,

border Collie.

But anyway, we went and we bought 400
head a like 60 pound um, just females

and, and a few rams and a couple
of couple Pyrenees dogs with 'em.

And but this time they stayed together
because they'd been raised together.

So it it, it helped a lot.

So anyway, yes, we both, we, we did go so,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: I know
with, with my goats, I, I've

had, I've had as many as about 50

head, but they, I never had a problem
with the cohesion of the herd.

They, they've just stayed together.

Of course, I built it slowly
and I raised a lot of them.

Well, I sold those out.

I can't even remember.

I think in 19, I sold all my
goats, but I bought some a couple

years ago, just a half, half

dozen.

So I've just got a handful.

Well, I went and bought another
half dozen, I say half dozen,

I think it's eight and eight.

I bought another eight last fall,
and I, and they, they do not

hang out together and I thought
this winter I'm gonna solve that.

I penned them up some, I've got 'em
actually here at the house in a smaller

pasture rather than where I usually graze
them because I'm trying to build that bond

and they still don't hang out together.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
So, so I've got an interesting story.

So I drove to Cheyenne, Wyoming
from Oregon with our trailer.

I built a double deck in it and I went
and bought had a friend that had a milking

parlor, was making cheese and stuff with.

Goats and sheep.

She knew this lady and, and or knew
of her anyway and, and she wanted a

whole bunch of these milking goats
from her, but she said she's got

these three burrows that are guard
burrows and some other meat goats.

Do you want, you know, if I put this
deal together, I'll pay for everything

and you can have the, the boroughs in
those half a dozen saunas or whatever.

I can't remember what
brand breed they were.

So I said, okay.

So I drove to Cheyenne, Wyoming, and,
and then long trip back, but about, I

dunno, shoot, a couple months later I
was, I was looking at this disjointed

bunch of goats out there in the front
pasture and there was a truck went

by on the county road, which was
just at the edge of this pasture.

And I don't know if it backfired
or anyway, sudden noise, whether he

revved up and took off, you know.

But anyway, I watched those
donkeys, sift through that bunch

of goats, get the six that they
knew, and brought 'em to the barn

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

yes.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
out there to the coyotes or

whatever that loud noise was.

And that was, for me, was just
truly a, a lesson as well, you know.

So what kind of helped that
problem by We got rid of those

goats that, that they knew

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: then
they had to re Well, we kept, we kept

the donkeys and, and they were there.

The donkeys didn't work well for us.

A couple of things, like they would hang
up on a barbed wire fence when the sheep

went through, or the goats went through.

Yeah.

Had a llama at one point.

That same, same thing.

I lost a bunch of, of stock to
coyote pressure and the llamas

standing there looking over the
fence, can't get there to help.

But the boroughs did not recognize
newborns as part of the herd.

And we kept finding these flat, I mean,
just about the thickness of the, you

know, a padded envelope, you know,

and just smashed flat.

And then with one day we saw 'em do
it, you know, the first time that

little baby would make a noise or
move when it was getting born, they'd

go over there just smashing it.

So we had to keep the burrows
out of the, out of the mix when

they were, when we were kidding.

So, I don't know, they were so,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: my, my
donkey is not that bad, but I

don't want him around when they're

lambing.

'cause he, he'll, he'll grab
a lamb and, and toss it and

throw it and shake it.

It's like,

yeah.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
We watched 'em do it one

time with the, with a coyote.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Yeah.

So they're, they're effective,
but you've just gotta, yeah.

So,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: But, but
you bring up a couple of excellent

points or a couple or excellent
point about llamas and, and donkeys.

We str struggle with the same issue.

I've got one of each and they get
hung up on a fence if sheep go

through the fence for whatever reason.

Now I do have dogs that stay
with the sheep, but yeah.

so I do find the donkey and
llama in a different pasture,

not a different pasture.

The pasture where the sheep
were supposed to be when I

find the sheep somewhere else.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we we've had some sad lessons here
in central Texas that we'd lost a

couple of dogs to hog snares because

Yeah, and that's that's a
sad day when that happened.

So

that, that wasn't an issue
back ho, you know, in Oregon.

'cause there weren't any feral hogs.

But,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
here it's, it's been pretty tough.

So.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: So.

you, you were running
meat, goats and stockers in

Oregon.

How'd you end up in Texas?

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
So we family lease transition thing

that kind of fell apart and couldn't
make a living on what was left of it.

And we had sold our, our, we
had a meat processing business.

We had sold that at the same time.

And, and we were offered a job in
central Texas and we came down here.

So,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743:
Well, Ross, I wanna jump back.

You said you had a meat processing

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: yes.

Yeah,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: How, how
did you get started in the meat

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
well, well, I worked for the county

first as an appraiser and then
as a building official because of

construction experience that I'd had,
you know, when I left the home ranch.

And that was a pretty high stress job.

And

yeah, I stress I was the only guy
in a county of 8,800 square miles.

Lake Oregon.

Yeah.

And, and a lot of BLM and Forest Service,
but there were little private pieces

out there too, you know, so anyway,
people came to Lake County 'cause they

didn't wanna follow the rules, but I was
the guy that was a regulator in that.

And so, anyway, I, my blood pressure
was high, but I'm gonna, and, and

I, and it ceased to bring any joy.

So, so I I was got to looking and
I'm, you know, I'm gonna get back.

I've got a ranch management degree,
I've got years of experience.

And so I started to apply
for some jobs and was looking

really hard at one in Florida.

And my wife and daughter, my daughter was
in seventh grade, I think at that time.

They said, go ahead,
but we're staying here.

I was like, well, I can't
keep doing this job.

And, and so the local established in 1940.

Lakeview Lockers Mobile
Slaughter, custom Meat Crossing

Assessing Plant was for sale.

And so we, we bought that and, and we
had had experience in the meat trade.

Gosh, in first year in 84, 85, when my
wife and I got married we were actually

starting a, my college roommate and I
were starting a natural beef, natural

labeled beef business in California.

We were putting frozen product in health
food stores in the Bay Area, and we were

just a little ways ahead of the curve,
you know, it was, uh, and distances

and, you know, a lot of factors.

But anyway, we put together a cooperative
effort of ranchers and the meat processing

plant in Modoc County, California.

And, and then, I mean, we, we spent.

Lots of miles on the road up and down.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: How I

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
And after about three years, we'd

sold 50 beef and finally decided the
vegetarians just don't eat enough

meat to support this business.

And, and so it, it wasn't, it wasn't
a far stretch force to buy this

deal this meat processing plant.

It was a needed business in town.

The young couple that had
bought it didn't like it.

They wanted out of it.

And and so we

we, we took a, an, an
old established business.

I mean, it stood alone and,
and, but it was, it was dingy.

It was dark, it stunk, it smelled bad.

It was off.

All was stored on site.

The render came, once a week in
the busy season, once every two

to three weeks in the off season.

And so all the, all the off all
was stored in a cooler outside.

Lots of flies.

You know, the hides were salted in
a van beside the building, you know,

just la more flies, more stink.

And it was in a residential area.

And so, we, we didn't want
to be in that environment.

So we, we,

made, we made, some changes.

We remodeled the front space and, and
put in a high end deli, full service

meat counter cutting, you know, breaking
carcasses USDA carcasses that we'd

buy local beef that we'd get processed
as, you know, as we could box beef

from country natural beef and, you
know, and, and, and beers and wines

and cheeses from all over the world.

It was, it was fun.

I mean, our, our culinary.

Bar got way raised really high and,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: and
and we had a lot of fun doing it, but we

just pretty worked ourselves to death.

But one of the things that, that
happened as a, as a side deal to this

was that we, the renderer started
to get a lot of pressure from the

State Department of Environmental
Quality and, and they just shut down.

There were two local renders,
kind of the same family.

I wouldn't say local One was
in Central Oregon, and Band

one was in Medford, Oregon.

And they were, the one out of Bend
area was the one was servicing us.

And, and they just, they just shut down.

So, so I called the DEQ and
I said, we've got a problem.

What do we do?

And they suggested we compost.

And through a long, long process,
we began composting this.

There was a, a lumber mill there.

That had huge, huge sawdust and chip
piles that were also a DEQ issue.

And so we hauled some of that out onto
our place, set aside a couple acres

to, to put the compost on, and we
started composting butcher waste and

which made a great soil amendment, but
mostly it was a waste disposal for us.

And, and it was kind of unique.

It was kind of a pilot
project for the state.

California still doesn't
recognize that it's viable.

Well, still at that 15 years ago, they
didn't recognize that was a viable

deal way to get rid of butcher waste.

Cornell University's done a tremendous
amount of study on butcher waste compost.

And it was, it was, it was
a win all the way around.

But one of the main things that
we did was it got all that stink

away from the locker plant.

And so the, uh, the upside of
that was the quality of the.

Beef because beef picks up
odors so fast in, in a cooler.

And if you've got one tainted beef or
a locker or a cooler full of off all,

I mean, your beef's gonna taste funky.

And, and so we got rid of all of that.

And, and everything, the el you know,
again, the bar got raised way high and

so that was a bonus for us to do that.

But

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: I didn't realize
beef would take on smells like that,

or their taste would be affected by

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
it, it really is so most

a, a lot of time and I grew up having,
having this experience like all the beef

that we ate just had the funny flavor.

It didn't taste like store-bought beef.

You know, it just, well after,
after having run one of these.

But it is, it's just a,
a bad bones, you know.

Bones get sour and that transfers
into that beef and it's in every

piece of meat that's in the hamburger.

And,

and so when I have, when I have stuff
processed now, I go inspect the plant

and I walk through their coer before
I'll let them put a hand on it.

If it, if it smells bad, I don't
want my meat tasting like that.

'cause it's gonna smell just
and taste just like that.

Cooler smells so,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Okay.

Let, let's dive into that just
a little bit more because I

know a lot of our listeners.

They go and they have meat processed.

They're selling direct to

consumer in some fashion.

You mentioned going there and
inspecting it or getting a tour.

Tell us what you're looking
for and how you approach it.

Are, are most operators open to it?

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
If they're USDA, they kind of

don't want somebody who's walking
through, but you can, you can tell.

Pretty quickly from the outside, even
if there's, if there's bad odors.

So if, if they're, if, if they have
a good rendering system or a good

waste disposal system, those that
offal isn't on site, it's away.

Even if it's a couple hundred yards you
know, it's gonna be fine, you know, but,

but, but if you just use
your nose, use your eyes.

If it's, if it's neat and clean
if their cut tables are clean, you

know, USDA has their standards.

Local processors, of course, you know,
everybody knows about selling wholes,

halves, and quarters and bundles.

But the, uh, yeah, just use your senses.

If it, if it doesn't feel good,
there's a reason it doesn't smell good.

And, and it can, it can happen.

We, we we hung wild game.

We hung it in a separate cooler.

But I, but that.

Like my meat cutter said, if
we're cutting game, I quit today.

He said he wouldn't do it because most of
the, most of the game is poorly handled.

You know, and, and so if that's commingled
my understanding for regulations that we

were under with the Oregon State being
just a custom processor, not USDA, we, we

could hang while game in the same cooler.

They just couldn't be on the
same rail, so there couldn't be

contact, you know, and they had to
be, had to be socked or covered.

And so there couldn't be contact
even with our custom processing.

But what, what we found in hanging or
allowing people to hang their own product,

we didn't have anything to do with
the, with the slaughter or the, or the

skinning or gutting any of that stuff.

We just didn't do it.

We wouldn't do it.

But they could bring it in.

Hang it in our cooler to chill it until
they were done hunting and take it home,

you know, or take it to another processor.

But we had funky odors in
there, and a lot of time it was

bone sour and the hips on elk.

And, and, and,

you know, you get, you get an antelope,
antelope smells like a Billy goat.

You know that stuff.

Yeah.

So anyway, that's just a separate deal.

And I think the same, same things
apply to your game processor.

You know, if it smells bad, your
meat's gonna come bad, smelling bad.

Yeah, we, we, we learned a lot
and I've got actually a few things

I'll just throw out there for free.

So for the, for, for somebody that,
that's doing direct to consumer and

I, and I've seen this and done this
with, you know, in our experience.

So, we did, you know, it was all custom,
but some of the stuff we, we would do

as a w was, we would facilitate locker
beef, you know, so like I'd, I'd get

animals off of ranchers that I knew
and, and then I could resell them as

hamburger bundles, you know, 20 pounds.

And you set, you, you got the
whole animal sold before you

kill it, then, then you're legal.

So a bundle is not defined.

You can have a 10 pound
bundle if you want.

But you just have to have that whole
carcass sold or oversold before

you, before you harvest the animal.

And that's, that's legal by, it's arguable
anyway, if your inspector says it.

But it's, it's very arguable.

'cause what is a bundle?

And then

the we've got some friends that
here in Texas that do farm to plate,

whether it's a CSA or they're going to
farmer's markets and standing there,

they're going to sale yard and they're
buying cattle and maybe feeding them

a little bit at home, raising them up.

But I have seen this many times, often
and, and eaten a lot of 'em myself

because a rancher will always sell
his best to pay his bills and his

family eats the one that broke a leg.

You know, I, I am speaking to
the choir here and, and that

beef is almost always tough.

So I heard a guy from, I think
he was from Chile, anyway, south

America that or Argentina that
does a lot of grass fed beef.

And, and in, in their studies, if,
if an animal does not gain, if a beef

does not gain at least three quarters
of a pound every single day of its

life, so calf had calf would scours
sore foot bad eye, they go off feed.

And, and I have killed animals
that I know or was able to find the

history on that were on the game.

2-year-old heifers, absolutely
beautiful carcasses.

So tough you couldn't eat 'em.

And you know, they looked, I mean, they,
they degraded high choice on the rib

eye, you know, just gorgeous, gorgeous.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh yes.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
But, but then you find out, oh yeah,

that calf, when that was a calf, you
know, it, you know, had foot rot.

And we doctored and
doctored and doctored it.

So you can't judge the quality of
the beef by what you see today.

And so if you're selling direct to
consumer, make dang sure you know what

you're buying or the ones that you know.

And so we, we handled country natural
beef in our, in our meat case.

And in the five years that we had their
beef in there, we had no complaints.

And it was beautiful.

But here's the thing, any, any animal,
and this was, this was an agreement of it.

So any animal that had ever had to be
doctored did not go through their program.

They went to the auction
yard or sold differently.

So they had a self sorting of the
quality of beef for that early time

in, its in its life all the way up
to slaughter if it ever got sick.

I mean, ear toss are announced
and they're out of the program.

And I believe that's why that
beef was always high quality.

So the make great, great
hamburger, grind them, but don't,

don't try to do steaks at 'em.

And the other thing I would do is
anytime we had a locker beef that I

bought from somebody like one time
I bought a bunch of roping steers.

I mean, they were so, so cheap that
exactly half of 'em, I, I went ahead

and I kept 'em a year, year and a
half, you know, and got 'em up to a

decent harvest weight and exactly.

Half of them were so
tough you couldn't eat it.

And I think those were the ones
that had been starved down to

hold over to another season.

And the other ones,

these were all Corey and.

You know, with shorthorn roping
steers, but the other half

were beautiful beef and fine.

So, you know, it's, it's an, it's
an example how you can do it.

But what I, what we would do when
we, when we sold these carcasses

is I would always go in there and
cut, even if it's just a thin steak

off of that split on the quarter.

And, and we had a stove in the
deal and we'd, I'd fry it up and

we'd fry it if it tasted good.

If it was tender, then it went
ahead and got packaged and steaks

and roast and the standard cut.

But if it was tough, you
know, all went to the grinder.

So that's how we maintain the
quality on what we sold to our

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
So that's the, that's the my advice.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743:
That, that's wonderful advice.

Advice.

I, I mean, you brought a couple
things to the point I didn't realize.

I.

I'm, I'm thinking, could you go to, so
where we take it, if I go ask them, Hey,

I wanna try a, a, a stake off there before
we make a decision how this is processed.

Are they open to that or, I know
you can't speak for them, but

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: I
would, I would certainly ask and I would

find somebody that is open to it and,
you know, sometimes, I mean, there's,

there may be some hardships with timing.

So it worked well for us because we, my
cooler was short, so it, and my slaughter

rig was short, so I quartered everything.

So it was al already cut there.

If they're

hanging in full halves, you
might go, you know, you're gonna

hang two weeks or three weeks or
however long you're gonna hang it.

But if you're hanging
it, let's say two weeks.

Go in there at, you know, 12 days
and say, Hey, can we cut this?

You know, it's not there.

You're not gonna lose much from a dry
out on that where you break the quarter

and then just take your own knife
and cut a little bit of it out of it.

It's your meat,

it's your meat.

You're gonna lose a little bit.

When they do the trim.

You might lose one steak out of the
thing, but you just, just get some and

go ahead.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: I just gonna
ask, how long do you think they need aged?

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: There's

after 10 days some studies show
that that tenderness doesn't change.

So 10 days is long enough,
10 days to two weeks.

If you hang it longer than
that, the flavor can change.

And again,

if your cooler's good, that's
you're on the positive slope.

If the cooler smells bad,
you're just getting worse.

So

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Yes.

yeah.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
Now in a dry cooler.

I believe it's five days.

I think it's five days.

It's been a little while since I did this.

You can actually have a mitigation
plan on the USDA plant that,

that can be your e coli control.

It, I believe it's five
days into dry cooler.

All that bacteria that's on
the, on an animal will die

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh, okay.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
if the cooler's wet and damp.

Which, if it's not draining right,
or either evaporators aren't

working in the cooler Right.

I think it can actually get worse on you.

But, but that's, that's
five days in a dry cooler.

So I would hang everything at least
five days because even A-U-S-D-A

inspected plant has bacteria in
there and molds and stuff that

they, they, had that's there.

So that's, yeah.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: E
excellent information on all that,

Ross.

And that's, that's a turn
I didn't anticipate when we

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Right.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Talking.

I was like, whoa, wait.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Yeah.

This isn't just grazing grass, but No, I,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743:
It, it's good information.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
well, everybody, I mean, I run

into it over and over again.

And, and anybody that's raising cattle
looks at it and you see the commissions

at the sale yard, you see, you know,
you, you're getting beat up here.

You feel like you're
getting cheated there.

I'm just gonna sell it direct.

And you have friends that are going,
Hey, can I buy some beef from you?

You know, and it's, and it, and for us
in in the Pacific Northwest, there were

very few USDA plants that you could
get, you know, to farmer's market thing.

So we had Reno, Nevada at the,
at the college there, they

ran a, they ran a kill plant.

And the next closest, or they were
both about the same distance service.

One in Prineville.

Which is east of Bend by
40 miles or something.

So that, that was, that was a hardship
for us to get, you know, local beef,

which we love to do because it's
so much fun to break a carcass, to

fill your meat case with, I mean,
you've got so much options to do it.

It's way better than box beef.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh yes.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: but,
but here in Texas, I'm sitting within 50

miles that I know of three USDA plants,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
know, and then there's a mobile,

you know, there's a processor, you
know, there's a lot of 'em here.

So we were the only one I
would, we would travel a hundred

miles one way to kill beef.

You know, we'd, yeah, I put in
300 mile days and killed five

beef, you know, makes a long day.

And we didn't do it every day.

We didn't

week, you know, we'd, we'd sort local
stuff so you'd get home for dinner.

But, but

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Just a
recent episode, we were talking

about that there's A-U-S-D-A
processor little over an hour from

me, but they just recently put,
or a recently a, there's a new

one that's about 30 minutes from
me, so it's gonna be really nice.

We haven't tried it yet,
but I'm looking forward

to it because I know the lady who's
running it and I think it, they're gonna

do a great

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
that's great.

A lot of people want the vision,
but it really, it's, it's a lot of

hard work and finding skilled help.

I mean, our, our meat cutter had been
a meat cutter his whole life, and he

was 62 years old, I think, when we
bought the plant, or 65 maybe even.

And, and he'd already retired from
a grocery store career, you know,

but he, but he didn't,
didn't wanna be home.

He was bored, you know, so he'd
come in there and he'd cut two

beef a day for us, which was.

The capacity our cooler
would hold, you know?

And, and, uh, and, and we tried to
get him help for 10 years that we

operated the thing and never, I mean,
you, everybody, we had many, I should

say it that way, not everybody.

I had, I had two or three young
men that came alongside that time

that, that actually panned out
and could have become butchers.

One of 'em did.

The other one

went on to other things, but they
you know, yeah, I, I'm a hunter.

I kill my own stuff, but, well,
I tell you, find, find somebody

that's skilled with a, with a knife
that can, that can, can learn.

And I, and I, I mean, like I said,
we had so, so many and it was hard.

And part of it is, you know, we,
we held our standards really high.

This is somebody's meat.

And supper we're working on, and it's
gonna be clean when it goes in our

cooler, and it's gonna be clean when
it goes out the freezer door, you know?

And I could usually tell if
they couldn't sharpen a knife or

couldn't learn to sharpen, then
they weren't gonna cut it, you know?

And, and it's like, it,
it proved out every time.

If a, if a guy showed up and could sharpen
a knife and keep it sharp throughout

the day, then you're gonna work out.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: so,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Ross, it
is been really interesting to talk

about the processing side of it, but
I'd like to jump forward and talk

about what you're doing in Texas

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: okay.

Well, Texas has been really
a scaling back for us.

It, we, we bought a piece of
bare ground here it's Prime

Farm ground on a floodplain and.

Very deep soils, which is very
rare in central Texas here.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
And, um, but we've been into drought.

We, we sent our, our flock
to solar farm for a year.

They came back in August and we've
only had like four inches of rain.

Five inches of rain since then.

And so the cool season plantings,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: How, how
much rain do you all usually get?

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
well, what's, what's true anymore?

You know,

yeah.

So we had

the brochures for Central
Texas say we get 32 inches.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh,

okay.

Yes,

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
I don't know when that happened.

Last we had, I've seen it
range seven inches overnight.

Which,

which can be devastating.

We had last winter, we had, starting the
1st of September or the first, you know,

that first week, last week, August, first
week of September, we usually get a storm

front comes through and you can get four
or 5, 6, 7 inches or something like that.

And I don't remember how much it
was, but it was, it was significant.

The timing was perfect.

Got all the fall plantings up
and then we had timely rains

after that and the temperatures
didn't get too high on us again.

And then we had oh gosh, it was November.

I was helping a friend unload
a bunch of cattle that night,

and oh my gosh, it rained.

One guy said he got 19
inches of rain that night.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Yeah.

Filled every, they call 'em
tanks here in Texas, filled

every water hole in the country.

And, and, and then we got timely
rains through, through the winter.

And in April, you know,
it rained some more.

Everything saturated.

And then I think it was the night
of the 4th of May, we had another

big front came through and yeah, it
dumped over seven inches that night.

We'd had like three inches
two days before that.

And then we, we flooded.

I,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh, I imagine

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: yeah
we're on a creek here called Cow House

Creek, which is a, just a huge watershed.

And right here where it comes by
our place, it narrows down and

it's a pretty close estimate.

The water in that creek
was 25 foot deep, and it,

it came across our oak crop down here.

I have five foot brace posts that I, pipe
posts that I pushed in the ground that I

hadn't capped yet, and they were full of
water that had come over the top of those.

And so, I mean, it, it happened and
then we were, we were actually in

the first 10 days in May, we were.

Flooded in here.

'cause we couldn't go either
direction outta here for five days.

And it took that long
for the water to go down.

And then it was get down and we'd
get another shower come through.

And

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: so, so

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Did you,

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: that,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: you have
some place for your sheep to go or

were they over on the solar

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
fortunately they were on the

solar farm and we didn't lose it.

Had they been here, they'd
have been washed away.

I,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: I met
I've, I've met people that lost, well,

one guy, his uncle over here on the land
passes river, lost 145 stalkers gone.

And I've heard stories since.

Everybody's still talking
about it, you know, we're just

not even yet a year into it.

And finding cattle, you know, 30, 40
miles away that, that somehow didn't

drown, you know, got washed down,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh yeah.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
down towards temple.

So, but it was, it was devastating.

I mean, it, it,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh, yeah, it

would

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
was, it was actually pretty

frightening to see that much water.

So how much rain do we get?

Depends on when, you know, I,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: right.

Yeah.

Now, when you went to Texas, you, you
had experience with stalkers and meat

goats, but you didn't go that path.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
no, I, I didn't a couple reasons

here are, are resource base.

We bought bare ground.

So this, I found, you know, old
fences, the perimeter fences, and

then interior fences with little
old cedar stick posts still left.

And,

and my best guess that those fences were
built about 1865, you know, based on

the wire type that I can find.

You know, this is some pretty unique wire.

And,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Right.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: and
so, and, and we're, and as we started

clearing cedars and whatnot, the,
the I mean, we're finding old horse

drawn, you know, tongues still on it.

I, I think it's cotton equipment.

I don't know.

I've never seen anything but,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh yes.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
so this was cotton farmed.

It was, who knows what
was grown here, but this.

This has been absentee owned and
leased ground for many, many years.

And so there was no stock water the
fences were all gone, no power in here.

And so we actually got ahead of the
curve and went to a doper sale, and

I found myself in my hand in the
air, and we brought home about 85

head of u lambs to, and it's like,
okay, now how do we keep 'em here?

I, you know, I can haul enough
water to feed them and, you

know, keep 'em in stock.

So, and, and we worked for a direct to
consumer, uh, cooperative effort called

Capital Lamb for a year too, so we, I got,
you know, to sort and working slaughter

lamb's and, and that I just really
fell in love with these little sheep.

They're, they're very.

They're not all docile, but at my
age and physical abilities, they're

not going to, they're not gonna
mash me up against a fence, you

know, I've been, I've been there.

And so the cattle thing went,
went, be, went behind us for that.

And what we had done, I, there's
another, another chapter of our life

that, that we did you know, going
back to talking about, you know, the

generational transition and, and, and
so at 55 years old or thereabouts,

I, I finally got my opportunity.

My dad decided to retire and sold
all, sold all, well, sold his

cows and gave some to the kids.

And it was, and I guess if, if, if
you've got a, a really bright young

child that's headed to college,

there is such a need for people
to facilitate generational

transition and get it done well.

That's a, that's a huge hole.

And what we're seeing nationwide,
you know, is, is these ranches are

getting bought up by investors who
see the appreciation value in the

land drive it beyond production value.

And, and then they hire somebody, but they
don't know, they don't trust 'em enough.

Anyway, there's, there's,
there's a whole realm of that.

And in the meantime, the, you know, like,
like, like you and I that our, our parents

are, are at that retirement age, but yet
we've got our own thing at this point.

So what do, what do you do?

So anyway, we,

we, we, had kinda worn out you know, the
concrete floors and the butchering in

the middle of winter had, and, and so
I was tired of processing meat and so.

My brother called me one day.

He had, he had actually gone
back to the ranch and stayed.

And but he said, he called me,
he says, I can't do this anymore.

He said, my back hurts.

My shoulders are shot

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
feeding hay bales.

And, and he says, I, I'm, I'm gonna leave.

And so, so I, I talked to my dad and I
said, we're I, I need, you know, can, can

I lease the place, you know, essentially?

And, and, and he said, man, I
didn't know what I was gonna

do with it when Shane left.

And so, but a again, this
communication and mixed, mixed goals or

visions were never talked about.

My family didn't talk
about important things.

You know, you talked about the
weather, you talked about, you know,

that cow out there and, and the beef
price, you know, all these things.

But nobody really talked about
what, what's gonna happen here?

So,

so I got the opportunity to, to
lease 2,500 acres irrigated ground

and a 16,000 acre BLM permit.

Had a three year lease on on part of it,
which belonged to my uncle and five year

renewable lease on, on the other parts
that had most facilities and whatnot.

And, but I'd run stalker cattle and I told
dad, I don't want to do cows and calves.

I, I, I don't like, the most anxiety
producing thing in my life is moving

a bunch of pairs down the county road,
you know, driving all these young calves

out, you know, 20 miles to the BLM permit
or forest service permit, you know, and

sitting out there at the end of the day
trying to mother up cows and calves and

all the cows wanna do is go drink and eat
and the calves are looking back through

the fence and yeah, that, that just.

So, and, and I had the experience that
I'd had on our place in Oregon of, you

know, of high density stock grazing.

So, so we, we spent a couple months
putting in two wire, high tensile fence

along all the ditch banks 'cause it's all
flood irrigated ground and, um, polypipe

on the water line, you know, water lines.

And, and we did extremely
high stock density grazing.

We had 2,500 to 3000
head of, of yearlings.

Everything from organic dairy heifers
had every label that exists represented

to to just commercial industrial cattle
that were gonna go to a feed lot.

And, and we ran mobs as big as
1100 moving them twice a day.

Between electric mine, electric fence.

We saw phenomenal things happen in the.

In the soil, the ecosystem learned
a lot about where my, my, I had

gone with inch and a half pipe,
I should have had two inch pipe,

Things like that, you know, but, but
we got to see I dunno, that could go

on to a couple more hours, you know,
talking about the things we saw.

But you, cattle will learn to
handle if you show up and every

time you show up, it's, it's good.

You know, you're moving 'em to fresh feed.

They'll, they'll follow
you through hell if,

you know, and, and, and we had we
had videos that we took of this, you

know, the big mob, 1,011 hundred head
of them moving down a ditch bank.

And the lead is, you know, the whole
string might be a quarter mile long.

The leads out there.

Just, just following the, the electric
fence trail that you've set up, going down

the ditch banks to get to the next one.

And you might be making a
one mile, two mile move.

And, and the, the one guy that's with
them is pulling the water trough in the

middle of the herd and the water trough,
mineral, trough are all tied together.

And, and the, and he's got, you
know, he's truly in the middle of

the string of deals and they're all
going and everybody gets there fine.

You know, so we did that
over and over again.

And, and the high stock density
we would try to leave four to six

inches of residual feed behind us.

And it was all red clover, white
clover fescue Italian rye grass a

variety of other lesser, you know,
types of plants, but it was all

irrigated metals.

We saw through the process of
this, you know, 'cause it, well,

we wouldn't come back until things
were fully recovered, which, you

know, and, and had adequate feed to
make it worth the time to come back.

But we saw tremendous increase in the
clover density and the clover size,

like the red clover leaves the size of

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh,

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
palming or hand.

And then, uh, we saw when you went
behind standing out in the field

behind that mob of cattle at, at the
proper stock density, were no turds.

They had already been incorporated
down to the soil level.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: And then
when you went later in the year, and of

course the, the protein carbohydrate con
concentration or contents change in the

feed and your, you know, your gains drop
off, your turds get harder and stuff.

But you'll, but the other thing
that we would do is we would,

we would spread the animals out.

We didn't have the high stalk density
later on in the, in the grazing season.

And, and so we but you start to see those
turds start to stay on top of the ground.

And so that was just one of the things.

And the other thing that we saw with,
which kind of surprised all of us,

that that valley a lot of water.

It was an old swamp that was drained
and mosquitoes were absolutely horrible.

And,

and so I had several people say, you
can't, you won't be able to do this.

Those cattle will run all the time.

You won't be able to

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

yeah.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: in this.

And, but we'd already
committed to do this.

And it's like, we're, we're doing this.

And, and so what we saw happen,
because these were hay meadows

that had traditionally, you know,
been the cattle moved off of April,

may middle May at the latest, and,
and gone out to the mountains.

And then you let that grow up, you
irrigate it a couple times, cut a hay crop

off of it, bring cattle back, and throw
all the hay back out on the ground again,

and all through the winter, you know?

And, and so, we interrupted that
mosquito cycle by doing this.

And for the first two years that we
were there, uh, mosquito population

almost disappeared in the valley.

We disrupted their, their egg cycle.

The other thing that we saw that happened
and we didn't notice it right away, but

the barn swallow population increased.

And we had, we would have like
2000 barn swallows sitting there at

camp waiting for us to jump in the
scooters to go out to move cattle.

And they'd go, they'd up and go with us.

And as you move those cattle forward
into the tall grass and those mosquitoes

in the tall grass would come up.

No, it was so much fun to watch,
sit there and watch those birds.

They just, by the thousands they,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh yes.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
so that, it was, it was pretty

cool to see, to see all of that.

So anyway, I had rambled on,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Yeah.

Very interesting.

Yeah.

So how many years did you, you
graze that large number out

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: No.

We, we had a four year, a three year
lease that was renewed for one year on,

on the larger portion of the irrigated
ground, and then it was put on the market

for sale and they didn't renew our lease.

And,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh, yes.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
and, and the other one well, it became

economically, you know, it's like
I can't keep a full crew on here.

We can't run enough cattle.

We still ran the higher stock density,
but we weren't contiguous anymore.

And, and so

it, it became more challenging
and, and so it cut the crew back.

My son-in-law managed it for us.

And, and he and the irrigator, I'd
go, I'd go help him, you know, when

we made big moves or whenever help
was needed, shipping and whatnot.

But, but so we did it for another, I
guess total of five years that we, a

pretty high stock density, long enough
to know that it, it works and I've,

I've wanted to replicate it and do it
again, but, and I, and I've tried to

do it here with the sheep somewhat,
but I just don't have, well, this

was bare ground and, and we, we quit.

Fertilizing and spraying on it.

So it's been a regenerative cycle.

And, and then of course you get the
droughts, you know, last year looked

really good and we, and we thought,
man, we, we've crossed that hump.

And then we just, after, after May
3rd, I'll bet we haven't had six

inches of rain since May last year.

Haven't added it up.

It, it's probably more than that,
but it's not, it's not been timely,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: not enough.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: enough.

We had four inch rain like Labor Day,
and then it got back up over a hundred

degrees again, so it sprouted all the
oats and stuff that were there, and

then just burned 'em up and killed.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
so it's like, oh my gosh.

It's yeah.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: So, so you
mentioned a little bit there that you're

trying to do, or you tried to do a little
bit of high density with the sheep, but

it's, the land's not quite there and

everything.

What practices have you brought to the
sheep that's really helping you there?

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
I've trained him to stay

behind one wire electric.

Yeah.

And, and that took a little bit of,
little bit of training when I worked

for the lamb company, the caper lamb,
we were, we were doing some grazing and

whatnot and setting up nets and all that.

And there was a company called
Razor Grazier that outta Canada

that I became a dealer for.

And they were just coming out
with their shepherd model,

which was a four wire model.

And so I, I used, I got
one of those and I used it.

It's helped a lot.

And, you know, it's, it's, it's not
unique in its concept in that it's,

it, it's just a handy tool because
it's all contained in one, one deal.

But, but setting up and taking down
four wires in one fence is quite a pain.

So I, so I just really quickly went
to two and found that they stayed.

Fine, you know, but I could run two over
here and two wires over here and, and have

a couple pastures set up and, and the
nice thing about that unit is it, it's

a push button to roll it back in again.

So it, it's, it's pretty handy.

But but then I thought,
well, let's try one.

And, and you, you get the occasional
one and then the by by mistake gets out.

But if she becomes a habit, she goes
away before he teaches everybody else.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
But the guy that had 'em on the

solar farm, he, he kept all these
sheep contained with one wire.

And I was actually surprised he was able
to do it because the wire he had, there

was a lot of traffic going in and out.

And so he had he kept the wire was
only about six inches off the ground.

It's like how in the world,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: at that.

But yeah, they stayed
where he put 'em, so,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: yeah.

of course.

Sheep want to go under rather than

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: yeah.

Yeah, they don't like to go over.

That's true.

So,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Yeah.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: so.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Now, now one
thing on that, you went with Dopers.

Why did you go with Dopers versus
any of the other hair breeds?

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Well,
I saw 'em with the, with the butcher

deal that we were involved in and, and
they just, they hang a beautiful carpets.

They got a

tremendous, tremendous flavor.

And I was also impressed
with, with a true doper.

They're like a, they're, they're, they're,
they're like a pig in that they weigh way

more than they look like they're going to,

you know, and, and they grow really fast.

And, and so I've got some kadin
mix out here, some white, you know,

Leger ones and I don't know, they
just don't seem to produce the, the

weight that the, that the doers do.

So.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: we were,
we were talking the other day and I

told you I'd got a door for Ram and

I used on Mike Todd and news.

But it's not a doper ram that
I've seen some photos of.

I'd like to get one of those really
muscular rams that, that I've seen

pictures of, but I haven't seen them

around here.

Surely someone around

here's got some, but I haven't found

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
they're out there.

I there's a, there's a gal over
near San Saba here that's got some

tremendous powerful Rams like that that

bought some of her, some of her used.

Yeah.

She was, I, I went, I to pick up her,
her lamb crop or some of 'em that she

was selling into this cooperative deal.

And they were five months old and
they weighed over a hundred pounds and

they were beautiful.

So I thought, okay, I'm gonna
go buy my rams from her.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh, yes, yes.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: So,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: yeah.

I, I, I need some growth on my lambs like

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Yeah.

Yeah.

They, they, they push the scales
down pretty fast, so, yeah.

And the other thing that I like about
these hair sheep, and I don't know

if it's true with all of 'em, but
they, they will actually do a lot more

browsing than, than wool sheep for sure.

You know, they'll, they'll do a, they're
a good cross between the goat and the

wool sheep and that they'll, they'll
eat a lot of stuff like the goat.

So

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: but
with a single wire, they're a lot

easier to keep in than a goat.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Yes.

Impossible on the goat.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, we looked at this, you know,
knowing, be faced with and thought

goats aren't an option for us.

So, you know, and in, in the desert
in you know, where, where we were in

Oregon, Northern California, there, we,
if they got away, you could find them.

You know, even if it took an
airplane, you're gonna find

here, here in Texas,
you wouldn't find them.

There's so much brush and, you know,
Cedar tickets and stuff, and you,

you'll probably never see 'em again.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Well, Ross, I've really enjoyed the
conversation and I know we've just

skimmed the top of it, but it's time
today for our famous four questions.

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cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Same four
questions we ask of All of our

guests.

Our first question, what's your favorite
grazing grass related book or resource?

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
You know, I've got a friend that

just wrote one that I've listened
to a couple times, name's Tomberg.

He's with Savory Institute and it's
called Green Grass in the Spring.

Love that.

It's available on Audible too.

He reads it himself and it's his story
Walking, you know, just his life story.

Another book that I've read, I.

A couple times and have, have
found it very encouraging is called

the Gardeners of Eden, subtitled,
restoring Our Relationship to

Nature by Daniel or Dan Daggett.

Yeah.

And that's, that's one that's just,
he, he just cites some examples of,

you know, good grazing practices in
the environmental changes that occur.

And it is just really encouraging.

So I've read it a couple times.

Typically I only read a book once, or I
might not even finish a book, you know?

But, but those, I've, I've done a couple
times, I've tried to get through Alan

Savory's book, but I always, I'll, I'll
read a paragraph and then I start thinking

and it's like, I gotta read that again.

And, and I never have got more than
the first or second chapter through it.

So.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: I'm
guilty as charged as well.

I've, I've started reading it a few times.

I've not got through it and,
and I used to be hard on myself

about starting to read a book.

I had to

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Yeah.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: And with
a little a DD it's kind of hard at

times, but I, I've let go of that.

If a book's not serving its purpose for

me, and that doesn't
mean the book's not good.

It means I'm not getting
what I need out of it.

I have no problem putting it up and
not reading it, and that's taken

me a long time to get to that spot.

But now if it's not
serving my purpose, I just

move on.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Another
one that I, that I read that I got quite

a lot out of was breaking the Hay habit.

I think Jim,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
Jim Barry wrote, which, which

actually challenges your, just your
challenges, your thinking, you know,

like, why, why am I doing this?

Why have we always done this?

Why can't we change, you know, so.

Yeah,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Yeah,

Excellent suggestions there.

And I didn't realize the
greener pasture's on no.

What was

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
the first one,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: The first one, I,
I didn't realize that was on audio Audible

or there was audio book.

I'll have to look

that up.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
may be, no, the first one was Green

grass in the spring by Tony Walberg.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743:
Green Grass in the spring.

Yeah,

because I am pretty sure that's
another book I have that I haven't read

yet.

You know, I'm gonna start making a book
list of the books I've read because

I've got like every book I haven't read,

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: yeah,

yeah,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: But I, I love
having an audio book because I can

listen to it in my ear when I'm out doing

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: exactly.

Yeah.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Yeah.

Ross, our second question.

What's your favorite tool for the farm?

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
Electric fence.

In general sense.

We couldn't have done our high
density stock grazing without

Gallagher's tumble wheels.

I think.

I would have to say that that
is my single most favorite tool.

It just made, it, made it possible for
both front fences and for back fences.

'cause we were grazing lanes and
they a lot of people never seen

them, but my gosh, they are.

And, and they, they don't work well
if you have obstacles in the field.

But if you have like irrigated
runs or you know, and, and fairly

parallel fences to work in then, then
they're, man, they're the, the ticket.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Now.

Go ahead

Ross.

I was just going to

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: I know.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: him to the

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
Yeah, so you can, you can find some

stuff on YouTube about, they're,
they're called Gallagher Tumble wheels.

Yeah.

And, and probably the best thing to
do is to look and see how they work

because describing how they work
is a, but they're, they're clever.

They've got a little cam in the hub
in the middle of them that, that drops

away from the two legs that are on
the ground so that they don't conduct.

And then whatever two legs
are on or non-conductive and

all the rest of it's hot.

The other thing I would say as
far as favorite I've tried a lot

of different reels and I always
go back to the Gallagher reels.

They're the three, three in one.

They are ergonomically correct for me.

I, they last a long time.

And they yeah.

And then the other thing that's made,
so I, I've done some stock stock

grazing on some large landscapes
through last winter with cattle.

On, you know, helping a
young guy, family friend.

And I couldn't have done it without that
range board tool that I mentioned too.

'cause it it, they, they do a
cattle option, so it's just a

single strand run out there.

But you can pull that thing, I
think there's a half mile wire

on a spool on it, and, and in
big spaces it, it's, it's great.

So I, I think those three, three
things are a eight step in posts

always use three, three eights,
fiberglass rods with long leg,

long spring, long leg clip on 'em.

Again, personal preference.

Everybody gets used to something
different, but, but those are my,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Right.

Well, whatever works for you works
for you, but it's always interesting

to find out what works for other

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: yeah,
and there's, and there's reasons, you

know, I think for everybody and, and
sometimes it's what you start with, you

know, don't waste your money on, on, on
lightweight wire for temporary fencing.

You know, you either go high tensile,
you know, the the 12 and a half gauge

stuff for a permanent set or, or
use poly poly strand of some kind.

'cause the, you can roll it
up and you can take it down.

You roll it up and take it down,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
you know,

the step in posts, and I don't
care whether they're plastic or

the better steel ones, if your
ground isn't soft, they suck.

And you, and you can't, you can't
drive them in with a hammer either.

So

that's why I went with
the, with the three eights.

You can sit on your scooter or in your
side by side and reach out there with

a dead blow hammer and push those in
the ground, you know, and just keep

going and never have to get out.

Stomp on.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
my preference.

They fit they, you,
you can take a, a pipe.

I used to use like a six inch
aluminum pipe and built a quiver

fit on the front of my four wheeler,
and you just throw those in there.

And yeah.

That, that's what's worked for me.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Very
good, excellent resources there

or tools to use on the farm.

Our third question, what
would you tell someone?

Just getting started?

I,

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Spend
good money way more than you anticipate.

If you're doing electric
fence on your charger, don't,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: yes,

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
don't go cheap on the charger.

And, and if you can't afford it
and, and you're building a whole

system, get get the one that you
can have a remote shut off on.

On.

And so like I, it, it's old amount of.

You know, it's kind of obsolete now,
but the one I use for our big grazing

operation is a stay fix 30 32 Juul.

And that's the other thing is, you
know, high JUULs you there's some

companies that have longer warranties.

Like there's Patriot makes a good charger
trying to think what the other one is.

There's, there's one here
made in the United States.

It's actually about half the cost of
most of the foreign, you know, like

Gallagher or Stay Fix or some of
those power Wizard, I believe it is.

And I had pretty good luck with him.

Their warranty's good.

I had some lightning strikes and stuff
in Oregon and they, they fixed it.

And, and their 18 jewel at that time,
it's been quite a week back, was.

Like 200 bucks or something like that.

I, I was happy with it.

And the other thing is with, with your, so
this's just getting started with your make

sure you have an excellent ground field

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Yes.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
if your fence charger, you know,

your fence wattage starts to drop.

The first thing to do if it's in the
middle of summer is go water your

ground field, put a sprinkler out there.

And I even went so far I got so
frustrated with it in Oregon.

We were in a very dry climate.

I did a a buried encased in, in concrete
rebar field, just like you do for a

foundation on a house and brought it out.

And then it was sitting there next to
the, where my main's charger was, and

I could put a sprinkler on that thing.

And my ground rod issues went away.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
So, any other suggestions?

I think that that's, that's the big one.

You're gonna and, and don't give
up too quick on, on electric fence.

Have a good tester.

Always have a good tester so
that you know what you've got.

And and with YouTube now, I
mean, there's no reason not to,

not to learn how to do it right.

It's, it's, it, it's inexpensive to build.

It's, it's flexible.

It can be temporary if
you're leasing ground.

Get that piece of ground that doesn't
have a fence along the creek because

you know, nobody, you, you can probably
pick it up cheap 'cause people can't

run cattle on it or something, you know,
and, but hey, electric fence along there.

And always train your cattle or livestock,
whether they're sheep or cattle with a

super hot fence hot as you can make it.

And.

I can, I can keep going.

One other, one other thing though,
if you're in, when you're introducing

cattle to an electric fence, especially
if they've never seen one, do not

try to contain them initially.

Introduce them, put 'em
inside a barbed wire field.

Doesn't matter whether it's
2020 acres or 200 acres.

But then, then what I did and did it
very successfully was I would run a very

hot wire just out into the middle of the
field and give 'em plenty of room to walk

around it and hang tin foil on that thing.

And they'll come up there to
smell that thing one time.

And, and don't let anybody ever tell
you the cattle don't communicate.

They don't all have to touch that fence.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Yeah.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
They'll, they'll learn pretty fast.

So those are just some tricks.

That was, that was our, kind of our fun,
you Billy fun was to, to watch a new bunch

of cattle, get trained of hot wire from.

Fence.

We'd go out there and sit and
watch him touch it the first time.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: You know,
I'm, I'm not sure that's something

we should admit to, but there's a
certain amount of SAT satisfaction

satis, I can't even say it correctly.

You know, when you see those
cows get shocked and you know,

yeah, you're Not gonna bother

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
do it again.

Not gonna do it again.

Yeah.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Yeah.

that's great advice all
the way through there.

You know, I, I think back to my journey
with Electric Fence and the first

part of the journey with Electric
Fence was why, why is this not working

When I've read that it'll work.

Well, we were using cheap energizers.

We didn't have it grounded.

Good.

When I made that change and decide to
spend money on an energizer and put in

a ground rod field like I needed to,

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Yeah.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: things

changed.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: they'll
last you for a very long time, you know?

So.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They are.

And the solar components.

Now, you know that technology's
picked things up a lot.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
you know, yeah, yeah.

I started off with some cheap
equipment and it, it, it doesn't work.

I still have it.

I don't know why I should throw it away.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743:
You know, excellent point.

I've got, I've got a couple little cheap
Gallagher solar ones that I, I have mainly

because that's what my dad, if he's gonna
go pick one up, he's gonna pick that up.

I have a nice, I have two nice
solar deals, but occasionally,

like, I'll need one of those.

I'll go put it up and it, it'll keep
'em in for a day or two, and then

I'm mad at it and, and I bring it
back to the house and, and just as

you mentioned it, I still got 'em.

Why I just need to get rid of
them because I'll get in a bind

and I'll go use it in two days.

I'll be mad at it again.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Yeah,
yeah, we did the car battery one, you

know, without a solar to supported them.

It's,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh, yes.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
and it's, they worked for a little

while, but it's just a maintenance,
you're always having to do it.

So, but everybody's context
is different as far as what

they're, what they're meant,

where where and how they need to do it.

And so that's actually where
for me, I found this, this

razor grazier unit is complete.

It was designed by a guy that's
grazing a lot of cattle in Canada, and

so it's, it's farmer, you know, farmer
designed or rancher designed, and

it's got good battery, good solar
charger, good solar panel, and it,

it's been pretty foolproof proof.

I've, and I'm, you know, I don't
care whether you buy one from

me or the any, it doesn't, I'm
not, that's not what I'm doing.

It's just been a very useful tool

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh yeah.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
and so I've, I'd recommend them.

I've, I've recommended them to
several people and they've bought

'em and been happy with them and

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh, very

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: yeah.

So,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: And lastly, Ross,
where can others find out more about you?

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
I've got a link LinkedIn page,

but that's, that's kind of it.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: That's about it.

There you go.

That

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
yes, on, we've been on Facebook.

My wife keeps it up.

Mcg, Garver Ranch Pasture Division.

We do some stuff on there too.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh, okay.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Yeah.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Very good.

And I said lastly, but actually
we have our new segment.

Ask the host.

So do you have a question for me?

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
Why in the world did you call me?

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: You can blame

Lynn.

Lynn contacted me.

He says, Hey, you gotta
get Ross on your podcast.

So blame

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: Yeah.

I've spent,

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: in fact, as
soon as I get off here, I'm on text

Lynn and I'm tell him I just recorded a

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
You should do that.

He might be in bed by now.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Yeah,

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
No, he, he's been fun to work with.

They yeah, Lynn they're, they're
stretching their, their boundaries and

their context up there, and they're
doing a, a great job with, with it

putting sheep on organic cotton farm to.

To for some weed control and
just for some soil health stuff.

And man, they found a chicken farm
that was going out of business,

pastured poultry deal, and they got
all their Pyrenees dogs, four of them

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
and those dogs walked right into

the sheep and just were at home.

I was so jealous.

They didn't have to

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh, well, yes.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
But yeah, just big old hairy

troop Pyrenees dogs, so yeah.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743:
Oh, that, that is wonderful.

I'm excited to see how it goes for

him.

He's, he's texted me a number
of times about hair, sheep and

what he's getting into over

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
He is he's an avid learner.

He listens all the time and
asks lots of questions, so yeah.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Yeah, he
texts me podcast episodes all the time.

Now the thing is, he doesn't share
my episodes with me, so I don't

know if he's not finding them useful
or, or if he thinks I already Know,

about 'em.

I don't Know,

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
he, he shared yours with, with me, so

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Oh, well, good,

good.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713:
shares 'em around, so it's good.

cal_1_03-14-2025_191743: Well,
Ross, we really appreciate you

coming on and sharing with us

today.

ross-mcgarva_1_03-14-2025_191713: it.

So.

Cal: Thank you for listening to this
episode of the grazing grass podcast,

where we bring you stories and insights
into grass-based livestock production.

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got something just for you.

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Until next time.

Keep on grazing grass.