Regenerative Ag Stories on the Grazing Grass Podcast

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: So, Sean, we'll
get started with the Fast Five today.

What's your name?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
Sean Smith.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859:
And what's your farm's name?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
Our farm is clanmen jerseys.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859:
And where are you located?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: we
are located at Minidosa, Manitoba.

So, it's on the western side
of the province of Manitoba.

Not too far from Brandon.

It's kind of our closest city.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh yes.

And if you're listening to this
as soon as it releases, know that

some of Sean's weather got down in
my country and I'm not a big fan.

What year did you all
start grazing animals?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: Well, I
guess we've kind of always been grazing.

Yeah, my, my grandparents were the first
ones to get dairy animals on the farm.

But our farm is a century farm.

So we got some Jersey cows in the 60s,
my grandparents, and they expanded to

shipping milk in the 80s, and that's when
my dad took over, and yeah, we just grazed

ever, the whole time, never stopped.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh very good.

And what livestock do you graze?

I heard you mentioned dairy cattle.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: Yes,
we are pretty much only a dairy farm.

We do a little bit of beef,
but Majority is dairy, so we

have purebred Jersey genetics.

Cal: Welcome to the grazing grass podcast.

The podcast dedicated to sharing
the stories of grass-based

livestock producers, exploring
regenerative practices that improve

the land animals and our lives.

I'm your host, Cal Hardage and each
week we'll dive into the journeys,

challenges, and successes of
producers like you, learning from

their experiences, and inspiring
each other to grow, and graze better.

Whether you're a seasoned
grazier or just getting started.

This is the place for you

Attention ranchers, ready to improve
your land and boost your bottom line?

Join Noble Research Institute for
its March Ranch Management Courses.

Business of Grazing in Edmond,
Oklahoma, March 4th through 6th.

Learn to create detailed grazing
plans, optimize profitability, and

make smart infrastructure investments.

Noble Grazing Essentials
in Huntsville, Texas.

March 25th through 27th.

Discover how to assess carrying
capacity, implement adaptive grazing

strategies, and develop effective
pasture recovery techniques.

Expert facilitators with decades of
ranching knowledge will guide you through

practical field and classroom training.

Receive exclusive benefits include virtual
meetings and one on one consultations.

Space is limited.

Visit noble.

org to enroll and invest in your land.

Livestock and legacy.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: if
you're watching on YouTube and

you see my cup, this is not my
cup, it's my daughter's cup.

got it because it's bigger and it holds
more liquid, and I thought I needed more.

Okay, Sean.

When you were growing up, did you
always think, hey, I'm going to

stay home and work on the dairy?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: for the
most part, yeah, like there's some other

things I was interested in growing up.

But when I was about 13 or so
our family, along with another

family, started a 4 H club.

And so I

got into the I was already in 4 H just
not in dairy 4 H, but we got into dairy

4 H and started showing cattle a little
bit at, like, the achievement and local,

local shows and that's kind of what really
got me you know, interested in farming and

really kind of put a permanent permanent
bug in my system in terms of farming.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Now, on
your, your dairy, I spent most of

my, this is really going to show
how uncool I was as a teenager.

Boy, I wanted to dairy.

I, I was growing up on dairy,
knew that's what I wanted to do.

I used to love drawing plans for
milking parlors, dairy barns,

and all the lots to go with it.

I spent way too many
hours drawing that up.

What kind of parlor do you all have?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: We
built a new barn seven years ago,

and so when we built a new barn,
we installed a DeLaval VMS robot.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, yes.

And what were you, were you
milking in a stanchion barn before

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
Yeah, a TIE stall, yeah.

Not,

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: a

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
with old stanchions, just, yeah,

just old individual stalls.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, yeah.

I think those grazing, those
grazing, grazing robots,

those are what we call cows.

The, the robotic milker, I
think is really fascinating.

Before we talk more about your robot
and some of the grazing management that

causes you to do, your, your grandparents
got jerseys, why did they go with

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
my understanding is that

when they first started,

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: yeah.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
not shipping fluid milk, they

were just shipping the cream.

So, they would milk their two or three
cows, and then separate the cream,

and then they'd ship the cream off
just in like, those old metal cream

jars that you see, you know, that
every dairy farm has in front of

their milk house, painted up nice.

Yeah, so they used to they
used to just ship cream, so of

course jerseys are really high
butterfat, so higher cream content.

So that's why they started with
jerseys, and we've just never,

never went to anything else.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Those milk cans,
we have, I don't have any at my house.

My parents have a couple at their house.

My grandparents have a couple that
we've painted up, like you mentioned.

Grandpa used to run a milk route
years ago and pick up milk and cream.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, okay.

Yeah.

, cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: but those
milk cans are becoming harder

and harder to find these days.

You just don't see them

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: Yeah,
well, not ones that are in good shape.

We have some around, but
they're, they're pretty rusty.

I don't know what they'd be worth, but

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Right,
true, So your your grandparents

got jerseys, they're grazing,
they're feeding in a tie barn.

What did you or when did you get
introduced to regenerative practices?

Was that something you
brought to the farm?

Was that something your parents
did or even your grandparents?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: Well, my,
my parents and my, and my grandparents,

especially kind of always had the mindset
that, you know, they're going to farm in

a way that, you know I guess was thinking
about, you know, not just the farm, but

kind of the ecosystem around the farm.

And.

They're really, you know, loved all
animals, loved waterfowl, especially

my grandparents were big big into
duck hunting and goose hunting,

so they loved their waterfowl.

So they wanted to keep all the natural
aspects of the farm that they could, and

so they weren't really the type of people
who were out pushing bush down to make

more, more cropland or anything like that.

And so that, that's kind of like the
mindset that was passed on to my dad too.

It's just that we're going to.

We're going to farm in a way that,
you know, we can be profitable,

but we're not going to get rid
of all the natural habitat.

And then my dad also kind of has always
had the mindset of just, he was going

to do stuff in ways that reduce the
labor in the barn because especially

with a tie stall, we used to, in our
tie stall, it was all small squares.

That's all we fed.

So, so we were bringing in.

bringing in like 40 to 50 small squares a
day by hand and so when you're doing that

every day you start thinking of ways you
can do less and less of that and and the

easiest way is to let the cows go out and
graze themselves and so yeah like that's

kind of how he always farmed it's just
like i'm gonna get these cows outside as

quick as i can in the spring and leave
them out as late as i can in the fall

and so we do that by you know feeding
bales out on pasture in the spring before

it's green and same within the fall.

Do it, let them out during the day
all the way till December to try

to just keep them out of the barn
so there's less work in the barn.

And so it wasn't really regen as much
as it was, you know, trying to cut down

on that labor aspect of in the barn.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: yeah.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
And then, yeah, I guess we kind

of, We've always been, yeah, like
I said, we've always been grazing.

We had some employees from New
Zealand and Australia and the UK

that were, spent summers here.

And they really helped
us improve our grazing.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, yes.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: of
course, New Zealand is known for,

for its good grazing management.

So they helped us improve that.

So we, with our dairy herd, we were moving
them twice a day for the last 30 years.

trying to get as much milk
as we can from grazing.

And so, yeah, we were doing all
these things, but we didn't really

know it was regen or didn't,
no one called it regen then.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Right.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
And until I guess 2010, my dad

went to a holistic management,
a little weekend workshop thing.

And that's kind of when, when the word
regenerative ag started being used.

And then we kind of started doing
a bit more of our own research

and, and, I guess, kind of focusing
on that, that type of farming.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, yes.

Yeah.

it way before it got
cool and got a name like

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: Yeah.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Now, with
your grazing, and starting that so

far back, I assume you all were using
some, some reels and polywire early on.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
Yeah, we were.

We were using We were using that,
like, poly tape, even, before

there was, like, good wire.

Which, that stuff is not very fun to work
with, and, And fiberglass posts that give

you slivers if you're not wearing gloves.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: yes.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: so yeah,
that's how long ago we were doing it.

But yeah, nowadays we've got
some got, well, we've too many

reels to keep track of, to be
honest, on our farm at this point.

And yeah, we still do a lot of
poly wire fencing and, and lots

of you know, whether it's a multi.

moves a day or every second day
depending on on what our goal is

and what group of animals it is.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Now something I
haven't asked of our guest in a long time

that I used to ask more often, but do
you have some preferred brands of reels

and posts that you use in PolyBraid?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: I
like the pigtail posts, I think.

Yeah, no, no, I can't even
blank it on names here.

Gallagher, I think, makes like
the lighter kind of pigtail ones.

So I like their posts.

Staff X makes the best in my
opinion, the best connectors like the

handle for when you're connecting.

'cause you can do

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh,

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
the positive or the, you can like

connect a positive or you can just
connect it and end it right there.

Like,

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: yeah.

I have a dead

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: yeah.

a dead

handle.

So those ones are nice.

And I think, I don't know, I
probably have a preference of the

Gallagher reels at this point.

They seem to last a bit
longer, be a bit more hardy.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: yeah.

Do you get the reels that's got all the,
I've complained about this on a past

episode, with the guard to keep your
hand from hitting the The poly braid

and then they have the little latch
on the end that keeps it on the fence.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: Yes, yeah,
we have the one that has the latch to keep

it on the fence, the Gallagher one, yeah.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Yeah, because
those little extras drive me a little

crazy because it's like I don't need all
this But then again when I'm not getting

shocked by the poly braid I'm like,
okay, maybe it's not so bad because I

I've thrown a reel or two on the ground

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: Yeah,
yeah, well those guards to keep the

reel, or like the poly on the reel,
they can be handy, because if you get

going fast, and you're not quite paying
attention, then all of a sudden you

look down, and you have a rat's nest.

There are you, I've just
gotten to the point where

to the point where I just cut
the, cut the wire at this point

have enough time to try to undo that.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Yeah,
I've had rats nests happen

too often and yeah, no fun.

Now one thing with your dairy That's
gonna be a little different than

when we talk about like beef cattle
grazing them Your cows have to come

back to the dairy barn every day

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: Yes.

Yeah.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: you have
do you have some lanes fixed up?

them to get out to different paddocks?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: So the
way we have it set up is our, we're

lucky our barn is pretty much in the
center of our quarter section and,

and so it gives us lots of opportunities
of pastors to reach to, so we have about

14 paddocks, all between 5 and 10 acres,
and then laneways to each of them.

And so,

so our cows, in the summer months,
basically they have 24 hour access to the

pasture, but they have to go through the
robot before they can access that pasture.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh,

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
And so that's just a way to make

sure that they are visiting the
robot because you still want to get

milked at least two times a day.

And so they, we have a series of one
way gates where once they go through the

robot, they can go through these gates
and they can decide to go to pasture

or they can come back into the barn.

It's up to them.

So that's how we keep them.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Do you
have to go out to the pasture and

bring them in every so often to
make sure they go through that?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
Usually the only time we're

doing that is in the morning.

and we'll either call them, they're pretty
good at coming to a call, or we'll go get

them with the dog and, and bring them in.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: You
mentioned 14 paddocks varying sizes.

Are those Semi permanently or permanently
fenced that way, and then you, do you

break them up any when you turn the
cows out by giving them a portion of it?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
Yeah, so they're all, they're all

permanently fenced with tensile.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh,

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: And
then when we're giving them pasture

every day, We are using poly wire
to split those up even more so.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, yes.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: Yeah.

we'll give them, we're usually giving
them between like half and three quarters

of an acre per twice a day type thing.

So

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Yeah.

Which, sounds like that
all worked really good.

I'm kind of curious
about your robot milker.

I think you said you got
it about seven years ago?

Did that your grazing,
when you installed that?

Did, and for instance, what I'm
thinking about, were you able to graze

more efficiently or did it kind of
put a damper on it because you're not

moving the whole herd at one time?

How did it affect your grazing?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: it's, it
has limited the amount we can graze in

terms of our cows daily dry matter intake.

So, back in the old barn, they
would pretty much get 100 percent

of their dry matter from grazing.

They would get a little bit of grain
twice a day when they came in to

get milked, but otherwise they would
just be on grass, whereas nowadays

they are getting between 40 and 60
percent of their daily dry matter

from grazing, depending on the season

and, and what path, or like what
type of forage they are eating.

So we still do mix a TMR every day
and, and put it in the barn and, and

they still eat that as well as grazing.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Now,
you're located in Canada, so milk's

a little bit different there.

You all have a quota
that you're working with.

How has that affected,
affected your all's operation?

maybe just for people not familiar
with your base or quota, whatever

wording you use for it, can you
describe what that is for them?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
Yeah, for sure.

So, we call it the
supply management system.

And so, basically the idea is that
Canada is only going to produce

enough milk to, for Canadians.

So, we're not going to overproduce
and export and then . So we're

only producing for what our,
you know, domestic market needs.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, yes.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: so in
doing that, we all, we can't overproduce.

So therefore, every farm has a strict
quota that they're allowed to fill.

And you can't go over that
quota because there's no market

for that milk that goes over.

And so every farm has a set amount of.

Kgs of butterfat that they're
allowed to ship per day.

It's all based on your butterfat.

How many kilograms of butterfat?

It's not based on liters and so for us
with the grazing it it There's a little

bit of a challenge in the sense that
our butterfat goes down on really fresh

grass So we're not shipping as many
kgs every day, but There's also You can

stockpile some Kgs in the form of what
they call credits where you can like

if you don't fill them this month You
can fill them next month type thing.

So there's we do have a bit of flexibility
that Makes it so that if we don't ship

as much in the summer, we can make up
for that in the winter months So that's

that's how we make it work for us

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, very good.

As a, a younger dairying, I always
thought the, the supply management system

that Canada in place was just crazy.

I thought, no way.

know, I was, I was very
pro capitalism with it.

But, as I've aged, it really seems
like a good method to me now.

Because here in the U.

S.

we had a small dairy, but we couldn't
keep our, our costs low enough with the

price of milk and everything we sold out.

And when I look at the supply
management now, it seems to me that's

a, a good way for smaller dairies to
stay in business, because that quota

has some value, and you've got it.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: Yeah, and
and the biggest thing is we have a very

Because we're not ever exporting, we're
not, we're also restricting imports.

So we're,

so like, Canadian government puts really
high tariffs, which we don't need to

talk too much about tariffs, right,

right now, but but they put high
tariffs on milk products that

are imported so that, so that our
milk price stays really steady.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, yes.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: But
the way they set our milk price,

just so people don't think that
it's like, you know, an inflated

milk price that, you know, that
you're making consumers pay more.

The way they set our milk price
is they do a cost of production

analysis on multiple farms every year.

I think it's about 10 percent
of the farms in Canada.

A third, a third party comes, does
a cost of production analysis on And

then they take that analysis to figure
out the average cost of production

and then they set the milk price
based on that cost of production.

So that then, if you're a farmer who is
under the average cost of production,

you're going to be more profitable.

If you're a farmer that's over
the average cost of production,

you're going to be less profitable.

So it's still, it's not like we're
propping up farms or anything like that.

Like you're still going to be
more profitable by trying to

reduce your cost of production.

And it's still based on an average.

So the whole industry is still
make, try and have that goal

of a lower cost production.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: And that
really gives you some feedback on

what you're doing as you know your
costs, and you can say, hey, here's

what these guys are averaging.

Where do we fall into that?

Where can we get better?

That's, that's nice information to have.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
yeah, for sure.

It's great to be able to
like benchmark a little.

Yeah,

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Let's
shift focus just a little bit before

we dive deeper into your forages.

And I want to cover genetics.

You know, we, we ran hostings.

Because that's what
everybody did, basically.

But then, our cows, we grazed them.

But we didn't, we did a little bit
of grazing management, but not a lot.

And at the time, there was some
New Zealand genetics coming in

that was more grazing genetics.

And I really wanted to use
them, and we just didn't get

there in the time we dairied.

Have you all used any grazing
genetics or are you using

pretty standard Jersey genetics?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
For the most part we have just

been using North American genetics.

Like a lot, yeah, a lot of Canadian
and US bulls, kind of a mix

of the two, because they both.

Yeah, like the genetic
pools are different.

They go for different things.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, yeah.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
Canadian is more high components,

butterfat and protein.

The U.

S.

is more high liters of milk.

so we kind of use a bit of both
to try to get that balance.

And then, in the last few years,
Australian genetics have started

making a big Yeah, a lot of
interest in North America, so we've

started using a little bit of them.

Yeah.

And a little bit of Danish,
because they have extremely high

components, the Denmark jerseys.

But we've never, we've never
gone the route of like, looking

specifically for grazing genetics.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: we, well
for one, our, our grazing season is only

four and a half to five months long.

So it's less than half of our year.

So If we focus completely on that,
well, they might not be as profitable

for the other seven months of the year.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, yeah.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: And
the, and the other thing is I've kind

of just I'm, well at least I'm hoping
this is how it's working on our farm,

is that we've been doing this for long
enough, and that our own genetics and

our epigenetics on our farm have adapted
to the type of grazing that we're doing.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, yes.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: when
you have, when you have old cows

that have been in your herd for, you
know, 10 years and you have seven

daughters off her, you know, she's in
your herd for 10 years for a reason.

It's because she matches
your, matches your program.

And hopefully, hopefully that's
like how we're getting our own type

of genetics that suit our program.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: And
I think that's valid with

when we think about jerseys.

Like I mentioned, we milked Holsteins.

And I think there's a bigger
discrepancy between the two.

The standard North America hosting
versus grazing genetics hosting.

I when I think about jerseys, I
don't think maybe there's that

much difference between the two.

But I'm sure there's, there's some.

Now you mentioned there having an old
cow and like seven heifers out of her.

If we've got two or three heifers out
of a cow, we were We were ecstatic

because it's just difficult to
raise enough heifers out of a cow.

What are you doing?

So you get so many heifers.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
Yeah, we we've been using sex semen

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: oh

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: the past

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: And
a little bit before that when the

technology just came out, but in the
last, yeah, 10 years, I've been very,

very heavy, using sex even very heavy
to try to make sure that I'm always

getting daughters off my best cows and,
and so that's It's, it's got its good

things in terms of like our, our herd
has improved a lot in the last 10 years.

But we also have way too
many heifers on our farm.

not very good at I'm not very good at
deciding which ones get the sex semen

and which ones just get beef semen.

I like my cows too much and I, I end
up breeding them all to sex semen, so.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Well we dairied
we never had enough heifers and now we've

got beef cows we never have enough bulls

know, it's it's just part of that Yeah
you using I'm not familiar with sex semen.

That happened after we were AI ing.

Except I think I've seen there's
like 75 percent sex semen and there's

90 percent sex semen, as I recall.

one are you using and do you find
those numbers pretty accurate?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: We pretty
much are only using the 90 percent now.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: I think
75 might still be out there available,

but it was kind of one of those it was
kind of like a lower price range when

they first came out with sex semen and
people weren't sure if they wanted to

spend twice as much money on semen.

So they came out with this 75, but I think
pretty much everything is around that 90%.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, okay.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: And
it's It seems to be at least that, like,

we get the odd bowl that's off a sex
semen that's not supposed to be a bowl.

But for the most part, it's
yeah, we're pretty happy with it.

And,

the biggest thing is they've, the
technology has really improved.

So, conception rate is really high.

When sex semen first came out,
your conception rate was lower.

And so You're spending more money
on the semen and not getting as

many pregnancies But now especially
with jerseys with that are very

fertile to begin with our conception
rates pretty high with sex semen.

So We're pretty happy with it

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: before
we move off of jerseys a little

bit, majority of your cows A2 A2?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
don't I mean I think I think like

It's something like 70 percent of
Jersey breed is a2 at this point Yeah

think our herd is probably around that.

I don't, if there's a really
good bull that has A1, I'll

probably still use him, but

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, yeah.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: most of
the semen companies are only taking A2

bulls at this point, so that's kind of,

like they don't really buy any, buy
any bulls that aren't A2, so it's

kind of made it so like the whole
breed is, is shifting that way.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, okay.

Yeah, you mentioned you're using
bulls on some of your cows.

What beef breeds are you going with?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: The
majority we are going with is just Angus

just because it's really cheap semen.

And it's good, good
fertility and easy calving.

We do use a little bit of Wagyu
just as a bit of an experiment.

So we have some steers on the ground.

I haven't butchered anything yet,
but we have some Jersey Wagyu steers.

So, look, looking forward to that.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: That'll be

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
Yeah, yeah, so we'll see, like,

I, I, I'm gonna grass finish them.

They're grass fed and grass finished.

And I raise them on cows.

I don't ball raise them, I just put them
on a nurse cow and raise them on a cow.

So, I think it'll be interesting
to see, like I don't see many Wagyu

that's grass fed, you don't see,
most Wagyu is grain fed, so it'll be

interesting to see what the results are.

And,

in like visual marbling and flavor,
because I'm sure you know the

difference between a grass fed
steak and a grain fed steak, there's

a bit of a flavor difference.

And it's mainly comes from the fat.

So if you have twice as much
fat, are you going to have

twice as much flavor difference?

And yeah, so I'm, we'll see.

I hope, I hope it's not a, I hope it's
not, you know, too extreme, I guess.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Yeah, it'll
be interesting to see and how that

goes now you mentioned something there
raise those calves on nurse cows.

Do you raise all your
calves on nurse cows?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
I know majority,

yeah, majority, majority of our
heifer calves get raised on a bottle.

Any, any breeding bowl that we're going
to keep gets raised on a cow because

they, have a much better temperament when
they're older, if they're raised on a cow.

And

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Great point about

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
yeah, it, it makes a big difference.

And the people who buy those bulls from
us comment on it too, how it's like night

and day, the difference between raised
on a cow compared to raised on a bottle.

So

yeah, we have done the odd
heifer calf raised on a cow.

It's a little bit better now with the
robot because I'm not the one getting

kicked when I, when I go to milk him.

But in the old Tysol it
wasn't very much fun.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Well, I was
thinking as you said that, boy, I

wouldn't want a heifer raised on a

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: No.

No.

We used to put Jersey ambrose
in beef cows actually.

And let,

let the beef cow raise the
Jersey calf once it was born.

And, but we did that for two seasons.

Once we started calving them out,
we never did that again because

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh,

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
were they were, they were wild and

they never lost it their whole life.

Like they could be old,

cows and they still just had that little
bit of edge to them that you didn't really

want to be working with on a daily basis.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Yeah, never
raised any dairy heifers on cows, but

I have had a few dairy goats just off
and on, and I've had some raised on the

nanny versus, or on the doe versus us
bottle raising them, and the ones that are

raised on the doe are just so much more

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: Yeah,

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859:
for a simple word.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: yeah,

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Yeah, it's time
we transition to our overgrazing section.

Speaker 2: At Redmond, we know that
you thrive when your animals do.

That's why it's essential to fill
the gaps in your herd's nutrition

with the minerals that they need.

Made by nature, our ancient mineral
salt and conditioner clay are the

catalyst in optimizing the nutrients
your animals get from their forage.

Unaltered and unrefined, our minerals
have the natural balance and proportion

to help that your animals prefer.

This gives your herd the ability
to naturally regulate their

mineral consumption as they graze.

Our minerals won't just help you
improve the health of your animals,

but will also help you naturally build
soil fertility so you can grow more

nutrient dense pasture year after year.

Nourish your animals, your soil,
and your life with Redmond.

Learn more at redmondagriculture.

com

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: And for the
overgrazing section we take a deeper

dive into some practice your operation.

And today we're gonna talk
more about your forages.

And your Specifically your forages forage
mixes that you are putting down because

as you graze dairy cows very different
than grazing beef cows or hair sheep.

I like to think of beef cows and hair
sheep as beginner grazer friendly.

But when you talk about dairy cows,
they have much more nutritional

requirements than those other classes.

So what are you doing so that your forages
can meet as much of that as they can?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: the
biggest thing for the dairy herd, like

when we were talking about grazing,
milking, lactating cows is you're right.

We need to keep like a really
high plane of nutrition.

And so that's where your pasture
management really comes in, in terms

of going to the pasture that's ready.

You know, when it's ready.

Always trying to graze in that vegetative
state, the plant, before, before it starts

going into the reproductive state, because
that's when it changes from putting, you

know, energy into the leaves to putting
energy into trying to make a seed.

And so, we're usually a
fairly short rotation, because

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh yeah.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: grazing
it, and then we want to be back onto

it before it heads out a second time.

So, we're liking that.

In our area, it's like 30 to 35 day
rotation where we're coming back

to it really quick and trying to
keep it in that vegetative state.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Excellent points there.

are you grazing mainly
perennials or annuals?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
Our pastures are split up that

majority of it is perennials,
multi species perennial mixes.

So at this point, those mixes are
usually made up of about four or five

legumes like alfalfa, a clover or two.

Cicer milkvetch, birdsfoot trefoil,
those ones will be in there, and then

we usually have a brome grass, and
then something like chicory, like, or a

plantain, plantain or something like that.

So those are our perennial mixes, and
like our fields will be mainly perennial

pastures, but then we will have about
10 15 percent of our pastures sowed

down to a multi species annual mix.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh,

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: And
so in those mixes, usually we have

a forage oats, forage peas, Italian
rye grass, turnips, clover, fennel.

Depending on the year, we'll have,
we're always trying something

different in our mixes, so we'll have,
like, kale you know, hairy vetch,

sorghum, just a bit of everything.

We try a few different things every year.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: O on
those annuals that you're sewing,

sewing, are you using no-till or
are you going in and tilling that

and using a prepared seed bed?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
We've been doing majority no till.

We bought a John Deere drill, six
years ago and, and switched to going

no till, which has been very nice.

But we are probably going to start doing
a little bit of tillage just because we

are a little worried about I guess our
lack of options for herbicides when

you're doing these multi species mixes.

so we're kind of going back to
the same herbicide year after

year and we're worried that we're
going to build up some resistance.

So, I think we're gonna at least
experiment again with tillage and just

see, see how that goes that way too.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Do you
think with your no till and using

those annuals, your weeds would just
take over too much that it's not

practical to do it without herbicide?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: Yeah,
basically, it's, we've done it, I

shouldn't say we've tried it without
herbicide, but we've done it when we

haven't had a good kill of herbicide.

Yeah, kind of the same.

And it's really noticeable.

You just aren't getting the
yield you want and just not the

production you want out of those.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, yeah.

with your forages, you talked
a little bit about that.

Earlier on, you mentioned
you've only got five months of

a really good grazing season.

Mm hmm.

So, what are you doing to use those
forages during the other seven months?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: So we make
pretty much all of our own forage on farm.

And so it's about split 50 50 between
perennials and multi species annuals.

And so our perennial mixes is fairly
similar to our pastures, about

four or five different legumes,
and yeah, basically the same mix.

Then we'll do two or three cuts off it.

And then,

then our annual mixes, we have
basically gone, narrowed down to a high

digestibility, high protein mix that we're
mixing and cutting early to try to get

that high digestibility and high protein.

And then we have another mix that
we call our high starch mix, which

we are letting grow a bit further
along so that we get some starch out

of the grains in that mix and try
to reduce our purchase grain costs.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Now, I think a
few years ago you went to Alberta a hands

on class about soil micro organisms.

Let me try that again.

About soil micro organisms.

How was that class and how
did it affect your practice?

Okay.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
It was, it was really good.

It was at the Kera Soil
Health Lab in Oyin, Alberta.

And so, basically we went and spent
one session inside a lab where they

showed us how to look underneath a
microscope to look at soil microorganisms.

And so we kind of, that was kind of the
idea was that if you want to, you could

do that at home then once they taught you.

but the microscope was 3, 000 and I
don't have that much free time, but yeah,

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: 100x,

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: yeah,

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: if I recall

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: yeah.

It was definitely more than like your
classroom science lab microscope.

But it was really, for me, I found
it really beneficial because I'm a

visual learner, and so it was nice.

I could be looking underneath the
microscope, and they actually had, like, a

microscope that would show what, what you
were looking at underneath the microscope

on the screen, like, behind you.

And so then the instructor's telling
you, it's like, okay, that, like,

what you're looking at right there is
a little bacteria, that little dot.

Or, this is, like, a
strand of, You know, fungi.

And this is an amoeba.

And, and so it's like kind of,
it's very hands on and visual.

And so for me, it kind of helped.

And then the next day we're in
more of a presentation area where

they're really going through.

It's like, okay, so the protozoa comes
and it eats this bacteria and digests it.

And when it passes through, then it comes
out as a, in a variable form of nitrogen.

For your plants and so it's very like
yeah, just put it all together and

I found it very beneficial that way.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Did it cause
you to change any practices at home?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: Well,
I guess it probably the biggest thing

was it, it motivated me to continue
to try to do some different things and

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh,

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: so
on our farm one thing we haven't

touched on yet is that our cows live
on a compost bedded pack and And

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh,

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: So
the way that works is we put down a

bunch of wood shavings and then the
cows sleep on there and deposit their

manure and urine into the wood shavings.

And then twice a day we take a little
cultivator and cultivate this wood

shavings and mix in the manure and
urine and it turns into compost.

And so the cows are actually living
on compost and we add shavings

when we need to, when it's time to.

When it needs to get a little you
know, just to dry it out, but otherwise

we're just composting this manure
and urine and wood shaving, shavings.

And then we're using that compost
as fertilizer on our farm.

And so,

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: yes,

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: so by
going to that soil health lab and like

realizing what these microorganisms
do, it kind of really, Really made me

think about like, you know, how can we,
how can we use our compost even more?

So I've since started using some
compost extracts from a Johnson's Zoo

Bioreactor they have on farm and trying
out stuff like that as as inoculants

for our seed and soil inoculants.

It's

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: it's kind of
outside the scope of the podcast, but

you're going through that and cultivating
it twice a day or incorporating the

manure that compost twice a day.

Is that an attachment you have
on like a skid loader or is it

on a tractor or is it by hand?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: on a
little tractor, so it was a There's a

three point hitch cultivator that had
probably been sitting in a tree line for,

I don't know, probably at least 40 years.

And it got pulled out of the bush and,
and strapped to a little Massey tractor.

And,

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh,

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: it
just, it's nice because it's small

enough that it just stays in the barn.

You don't have to open up any
doors or anything to do it.

It just got a little
parking spot in the barn.

We just, twice a day, cultivate with that.

Yeah,

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859:
but how are you doing it?

So that works out good.

Have you noticed, by going to that
compost bed, has it affected your somatic

cell count or mastitis incidence, Sini?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: our
somatic cell count is, usually stays like

a pretty respectable number, like around
that 80, 000 to 120, 000 so it's good.

I will say that, you know, I think there,
there probably is, we have some type of

mastitis that's popping up because we'll
have cows that, they're not getting sick.

enough that, like, I can see, like,
look at her and be like, she's

sick and then, and then treat her.

But all, it's more so just all of a sudden
I'll notice that one quarter has gone

dry because she obviously had mastitis
at one point and we didn't pick up on it.

So that, that is frustrating.

We're trying to decide if we're going
to go the route of Like a somatic cell

tester in our robot because you can,
you can install that, but it is a little

pricey and I've heard mixed, mixed
opinion on if it worked good or not.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: That was kind
of my My thoughts there, where you're

not actively milking them and the robot's
doing it, it, you miss out on that daily

feedback, twice a day feedback, of how
that quarter health or utter health is.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
Yeah, definitely.

Like, that's, that's something that
we've noticed is that you just, you

know, you're not, when you're not hands
on or on them twice a day, then you're

not picking up on those things the
way you would In the old, old barn.

So now the next option is, you
know, spend more money and upgrade

the, upgrade the equipment.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Everything

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: Yeah.

Yeah.

So it definitely has its drawbacks.

The robot.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh yeah.

What do you see for the next
few years for your dairy.

Any changes?

Are you continuing as is?

What would you like to improve?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: I think
our, in the short term, we're just

trying to you know, focus on kind of
like the little things, you know, dairy

farming, it's very You know, there's,
there's little things that can make a big

difference if you're doing them right.

So, you know, that's like dry cow
management you know, even calf raising

management, trying to reduce the amount
of calves we're raising, stuff like that.

In the long term, I could see us probably
going towards processing our own milk as

a way to try to get a premium, because
You know, there's, there's really good

things about the supply management system.

But the one thing that at least where we
are, that is a bit of a negative is that

you, you don't have as many processors
and so, and you don't have those,

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, yeah.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: you
know, you don't have those options to

go, or we don't, we honestly couldn't
even go organic if we wanted to.

We would have no one to
buy our milk where we are.

And it was the same with grass fed.

We tried to go grass fed and it just,
there just wasn't a processor that would

be, you know, be able to do it for us.

So I think if we want to get a premium
whether it's grass fed or organic,

I think we would have to just switch
to start doing it ourselves, which

would be a big step and a whole new,
a whole new thing, but it's probably

what we're gonna, it's probably
what we're gonna do eventually, so.

Yeah,

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: I say that
I haven't made very much cheese.

I have gone to a cheese making
class or two, and I even bought

some dairy sheep a year years ago.

Maybe 15, 20 years ago.

That I wanted to start milking I
just never, I never found the time

and pushed it high enough on my
priority list to get it done, but

I love the idea of making cheese.

It may be because that's one
of my favorite snacks, but

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
there's, there's nothing

better than fresh cheese curds.

Like, I've only done it a few times, but,
like, when they're, like, just, like,

Just right fresh, man, can't beat that.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859:
oh yeah, yeah, no, I agree.

Sean, before we move on to the famous
four, anything else you'd like to add?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: I
guess just one, one other thing, just

to go into a little more depth maybe
about those multi species annuals.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, okay.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: like the
only, yeah, the only thing I would say

is just, if anyone's listening who's a
dairy farmer and has thought about this,

is that my advice would be to start simple
and just make your own blends, rather

than go to a premix blend, unless the,

the seed company that you're
looking to buy from is making

like a dairy specific blend.

Pre mix blend that is like
made for dairy quality feed.

I would say just do it yourself because
at least in my area, most of these pre

mix blends that are like getting promoted
by cover crop cover crop seed companies

or, or anything like that, they're,
they maybe don't fit that high quality

feed that a dairy farmer would need.

And so you might be disappointed.

I've heard too many dairy farmers
who said they bought a pre mix,

had good yield, but not the quality
that they want, and now they're just

going back to you know, monoculture.

And so I'd say just, if you're going
to do it, just make it yourself, and

make a blend that fits your program.

Yeah,

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Of course as
dairymen, dairy people know that those

nutritional requirements of dairy cows
are so much greater than what you're

dealing with with beef cows or we can
get by on a lot less feeding scrub to

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
well, yeah, beef cows, I

mean, they're, they're good.

They're really good at
converting, converting feed.

I mean, that's what, that's
what they're good at.

So,

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Well, Sean,
it's time for our famous four questions.

Today's famous four questions
are sponsored by Manderley

farms grazing conference.

Attention, all farmers,
ranchers, and land enthusiast.

Join us for owned forgettable
grazing conference on

February 21st and 22nd, 2025.

At the beautiful Manderley
farms in Pikeville, Tennessee

nestled in the scenic Sequatchie valley.

This is your chance to learn
from the best in the business.

Our speakers include

the renowned, Greg Judy, alongside the
dynamic duo, Greg and Debbie Brann.

Expect engaging sessions, informative
pasture walks and interactive question

and answer sessions with our experts.

Discover help to revolutionize
your land management with

regenerative grazing practices.

Whether you're looking to enhance

whether you're looking to enhance
soil health, increase, biodiversity,

or improve your pasture productivity.

This conference is tailored for you.

Don't miss this opportunity to
grow your knowledge and your farm.

For more details and secure your spot.

Visit www.manderlyfarms.com.

That's M a N D E R L E Y.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Same four
questions we ask of all of our guests.

Our first question.

What is your favorite grazing
grass related book or resource?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: I
can't say that I have too many books

specifically on grazing, but probably
my, my best resource is actually our

local Ducks Unlimited has a grazing club.

And

that has been something that has been
like a really good resource, whether it's.

We do field days where we'll go to a
farm or they bring in good speakers.

So they've probably been, like, my best
resource apart from, I guess, YouTube.

It's always, that's always,

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, yeah.

And that's interesting.

Ducks Unlimited.

Is that who you said that's doing

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
Yeah, yeah.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, yes.

That's resource don't normally think of.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
Yeah, well, it's We're losing

so much I guess grassland on the
prairies in Canada right now.

So much of it is getting converted
to just rope, or to grain crops.

So, so Ducks Unlimited is really trying
to focus on Making beef producers, mainly,

because there's not as many dairy, but
trying to help them be more profitable

so that they stay in business and their
land doesn't get converted to cropland.

So, so this is one, this is one way
they're doing it is offering this

grazing club and this resource.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859:
Oh, very interesting.

Our second question, what's
your favorite tool for the farm?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: You know,
I I really like our John Deere drill.

I'm not, I'm not a big machinery guy, but
that's actually something that I always

get excited by when I'm driving it.

So I like that, and then probably
a poly reel is, is something

that you know, I really like.

You know, it's, I like being able to,
whether it's, you know, putting a group

of, you know, yearlings in a pen where
I'm trying to get a ton of trample

to get some ground cover and I make a
nice little tiny one or with the dairy

herd just making a, giving them a new
piece of grass and seeing them just

clip it all off at an even level with,
I like that, being able to do that.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh, yeah.

I thought you might say
your robotic milker.

As, as I think about milking, it's
a love hate relationship for me.

I love milking cows.

Yes.

Part I didn't like was it happened twice
a day on a very set schedule and there

was days I was like, I don't want to
be here, but I really enjoyed it and

miss it now But a robot milker would
solve some of those problems Yeah,

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: Except
it's a love hate with technology.

Yeah, so yeah, I mean, the robot
definitely makes our lives more flexible.

We're not as set in our daily routine.

But,

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: oh

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: it's a,
it's an expensive piece of equipment.

And And yeah, it's got some pluses
and some minuses, so it's definitely

not on the top of my favorite things.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Yeah Our
third question Sean, what would you

tell someone just getting started?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: So
yeah, what I would say to a farmer who's

Just thinking about trying out some
of these things that we're doing is

just start, start with something easy.

You know, I think about people
who are growing barley every

year and making silage out of it.

It, it's really easy just to add some
clover and some Italian rye to that and,

and just when it, after you cut it for
barley, it'll regrow and you can stick

some heifers out there to graze it.

Or if it's close enough to your barn
you can graze your milking herd And

and it would just be a really easy
thing to do just as an experiment

to kind of dip your toe in the water

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Yeah, get,
get started, try that out, yeah.

And lastly, Sean, can others
find out more about you?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: The
best place is probably our facebook

page, Clanman Jerseys I In the summer,
I definitely am posting more stuff

about what's going on day to day on
the farm in terms of some of the stuff

We're doing in the winter it's more
pictures of cows, so if you like,

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Oh,

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: yeah,
if you like seeing pictures of Jersey

cows then you can see them on there.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Well, we're
going to add a bonus question in.

Where did the name
Clanman Jerseys come from?

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: It came
from my, well, my grandpa, he picked it,

and he picked it because a village that
we're like right beside, a mile down the

road, is called Clanwilliam, and it's
so Clanman is the start of Clanwilliam

and the start of Manitoba put together.

So

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Clanman,

okay.

very

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859: yeah.

cal_1_02-18-2025_152859: Well,
Sean, we appreciate you coming

on and sharing with us today.

sean-smith_1_02-18-2025_152859:
Thanks for having me on.

It's been yeah, it's been a
cold two weeks in Manitoba.

So it's nice to Get on and chat
about some of the fun stuff that we

do around here in the summer months.

Get excited for that.

Yeah.

Cal: Thank you for listening to this
episode of the grazing grass podcast,

where we bring you stories and insights
into grass-based livestock production.

If you're new here, we've
got something just for you.

Our new listener resource guide.

Is packed with everything you need
to get started on your listening

journey with a grazing grass podcast.

It gives you more information
about the podcast about myself.

And next steps.

You can grab your free
copy at grazinggrass.com

slash guide.

Don't miss out.

And Hey, do you have a
grazing story to share?

We're always looking for passionate
producers to feature on the show,

whether you're just starting out or have
years of experience your story matters.

Head over to grazing grass.

Dot com slash guest.

To learn more and apply to be a guest.

We'd love to share your journey with
our growing community of grazers.

Until next time.

Keep on grazing grass.