Regenerative Ag Stories on the Grazing Grass Podcast

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0:00:00 - Cal
Welcome to the Grazing Grass Podcast episode 140.

0:00:04 - Ted
You will not be successful as a grazer if you can't learn to have an appreciation and understanding for the nutritional value of quality grazed forage and what it can do for the performance of an animal in a relatively economic way. You have to develop that confidence.

0:00:25 - Cal
You're listening to the Grazing Grass Podcast sharing information and stories of grass-based livestock production utilizing regenerative practices. I'm your host, Cal Hartage. You're growing more than grass. You're growing a healthier ecosystem to help your cattle thrive in their environment. You're growing your livelihood by increasing your carrying capacity and reducing your operating costs. You're growing stronger communities and a legacy to last generations. The grazing management decisions you make today impact everything from the soil beneath your feet to the community all around you. That's why the Noble Research Institute created their Essentials of Regenerative Grazing course to teach ranchers like you easy-to-follow techniques to quickly assess your forage, production and infrastructure capacity in order to begin grazing more efficiently. Together, they can help you grow not only a healthier operation, but a legacy that lasts. Learn more on their website at nobleorg slash grazing. Nobleorg slash grazing. It's nobleorg forward slash grazing.

On today's show we have Ted Miller of Delta Dairy. It's located in Louisiana. Just a side note on Louisiana. My wife and I say it differently and now I'm confused about which way is the correct way, because we've talked about it so much. So we're going with Louisiana, At least I am for now. Anyway, Ted has a fairly large grass-based dairy in the lower Mississippi Delta. Very interesting. We talk about their move from Pennsylvania to Louisiana. We talk about how they're daring, managing forages, et cetera.

It's a really good episode. For the overgrazing section, we dive into virtual collars. We've talked a lot about virtual fence collars on past episodes. Here's a dairy that's using them. They started using them last spring and they're using Halter brand, which is a little bit different. We've talked about fence brand and I think no fence brand, but Halter is another brand that Ted's using in Louisiana. He talks about how good or how bad it's working. You'll have to listen and find out. On the bonus segment for Grazing Grass Insiders, we talk about planting cool season annuals, how he's doing it and how that's working for him and why he chose why he's planting. Like I said before, a good episode. I really enjoyed it.

As you all know, I'm a fan of grass-based dairies, so I'm always excited to talk to them and I think there's something in here for a beef producer, sheep producer, goat producer, and if you're a dairy, obviously you want to stick around. So I think you need to catch it. Before we get to Ted, though, 10 seconds about my farm. I think I told you last week or week before I have a Spanish buck for sale. Shockingly, no one has called to buy him. Just in case you didn week or week before, I have a Spanish buck for sale. Shockingly, no one has called to buy him. Just in case you didn't catch those episodes, I have a Spanish buck for sale. He's a really good buck. I'm really happy with his kids and recently he's learned a new trick he can get out of whatever fence I put him in. So if you would like to have like a trick Spanish goat, Spanish buck get out whatever pin you want, I've got one for him. I'm holding on to him just until the next auction and I'll take him over there.

I did find me another buck. I'm going to breed him to a boar buck this year and see how that goes, See if I can put a little bit more width, a little bit more meat on those kids. And, if you're unfamiliar, I have some Spanish does and recently I purchased some fainting goats. So we're going to see how those crosses go and see if I like them. I've wanted fainting goats since I was a kid and I found opportunity. The price was right and I purchased just a handful just to try out. I am a little surprised by their stature. I knew they were small, but they're pretty small. I'm really thick though, so we'll see how it goes. I, in fact, was looking at a buck to go with him, but when I looked at the buck I was not a fan of him, so I bought the does and then I was able to find a boar buck that I really like. So I've got those set up or I've got them out. I won't be putting the buck with the does till closer to December so I can have those late April kids 10 seconds about the podcast.

If you're not part of the grazing grass community on Facebook, I suggest you join and you can just go to Facebook. Do a search for grazing grass community Should pop up. It's a very positive community for people wondering about grazing grass, different grazing methods, tools you use, marketing, etc. It's available and I have to say it's a really good group of people, very positive. One thing I do not see there is the bickering I see in a lot of other groups, and we're going to do our best to keep it that way, because I want this to be a positive place for you to ask your questions and get answers from people doing it, as well as have other discussions along that line.

So if you're currently a member of the grazing grass community, thank you. Thank you for keeping it a positive learning space and if you're not there, I suggest you join. A great conversation happens there. Enough of that, let's talk to Ted. Ted, we want to welcome you to the grazingzing Grass Podcast. We're excited you're here today. Thank you, Glad to be here, Ted. To get started, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your operation?

0:06:36 - Ted
Sure. My name's Ted Miller. I'm married to my wife Melissa. We have four basically grown children. They range in age from 23 down to 18. And we're located in northeast Louisiana, about 50 miles west of the Mississippi River and about 70 miles south of the Arkansas border, Right on the center of the lower Mississippi River Delta. We've been here for 15 years. We moved our dairy down here in 2009. We're dairying in central Pennsylvania for about seven years. Prior to that, a smaller grass-based dairy up there.

0:07:18 - Cal
To just get started with that, why get you interested in a grass-based dairy?

0:07:23 - Ted
Okay To back up a little bit farther. My wife and I started in full-time farming in 2000. We purchased a small farm in central Pennsylvania. It was actually a bankrupt hog farm is what it was. I was in the hog business before that. I worked for an integrator there in Pennsylvania, so I was familiar with that industry and we in the hog business. Before that I worked for an integrator there in Pennsylvania, so I was familiar with that industry and we had the opportunity to purchase this farm in 2000. We didn't have the equity we needed to do that but through FSA real estate loans and just an opportunity to kind of convince the lender we might have an opportunity to help them out with their situation. We were blessed in being able to purchase the farm. So we started. We renovated the hog facilities there and we started contract finishing pigs for a local integration company there in Pennsylvania. They were marketed at Hatfield Quality Meats in Southeastern.

So that was kind of my background, growing up in central Pennsylvania. I didn't come from a dairy but I worked in high school for dairymen in the area and was familiar with the industry as it looked there and enjoyed that. As the rest of you know, really had a passion for all elements of agriculture but was aware of the dairy business. Didn't really see myself probably in that industry at that time. But after we got started there I continued to work for the integrator and we finished pigs on the side and we had about 120 acres of pretty rugged land there Not great great crop ground but good pasture ground and wondered how could we utilize this land a little better. And ironically, in my travels for work I traveled past a farm in a neighboring county that was set up by the American Farmland Trust as a demonstration farm for a New Zealand grass-based dairy model.

Very interesting. It was odd to me as I drove past this place and there were holstein cows out grazing in a very small building with a bulk tank sticking out the end of it, I thought that looks like dairy. But it doesn't look like dairy. So I had you know I was, I was my my curiosity was kind of spiked and I I stopped and talked to the, got to talk to the, to the tenants there, who actually was some, who was related to some folks I knew from kind of my hometowns. We made some connection there but ended up being a family.

That served as quite a mentor role for me as we kind of journeyed off into this grass-based area. So I looked at that farm and thought, you know, we could do that here on a smaller scale. So maybe we could milk a that here on a smaller scale, maybe we could milk a few cows on a seasonal grass-based dairy. I wouldn't have to work away, I could stay in the farm full-time, that type of thing. We did that in 2003. We started milking 60 cows, 60 crossbred cows, in a little retrofitted swing 12 parlor. We put in a building that existed there on the farm and we started off into the dairy business along with the with the hog finishing, and we quickly saw that the, the grass-based dairy, seemed to have a lot more growth potential, didn't you know? Didn't have the depreciation attached to it that the hog finishing did.

0:10:42 - Cal
Oh yeah.

0:10:43 - Ted
You know. So we thought you know we can really grow this, but we can't do it here. And the same person I mentioned who served as a mentor for me and contacted him about his thoughts on how I might feel about growing or relocating in Pennsylvania, and he said that really, if you want to get serious about growing you probably need to move out of state. And he told me about an individual, charlie Opitz, who was a retired dairyman who sold out of his portion of his family dairy enterprise and was looking to put a larger scale model together down here in Louisiana on some land that he had acquired, kind of to model that New Zealand type production model here in the States. So as my wife looked over my shoulder and read that email that day, she said you can move me anywhere you want to in Pennsylvania, but you're never going to take me to Louisiana.

And she's been a Louisiana resident for 15 years now. So interesting how things transpire. But in in 2007, eight, nine in that range we were, we, we considered, you know, we looked at the options of selling our farm up there, moving down here, and and really it was, the providential hand of the Lord allowed those things to happen and we were we're able to kind of move forward with that.

Our farm sold, sold easily, we did well with that and we're able to to get to move down here and we started just on cropland here in the Delta and you had to build a parlor, convert to pasture, establish some irrigation, those types of things. I mean there was nothing here no fencing, no laneways, nothing. So it was quite a journey for several years following that, just putting the infrastructure in to put a model together here. But now, to make a long story short, we're here. We're milking around 600 head on about 1,200 acres fenced, about 700 acres of that irrigated. Rupitz and his wife have since sold out of their portion of the partnership we had formed and it's just my wife and I now and our family that continues to operate Delta Dairy.

0:12:55 - Cal
Now I'm going to ask a real, I don't know about, a simple question. I'm trying to think about my listeners, and they may not be familiar with a New Zealand style dairy. So when you say in Pennsylvania there's this New Zealand style, and then that's what you were trying to do, sure, what makes it New Zealand style?

0:13:16 - Ted
Yeah, it's going to be a dairy production model that does not resemble real closely the typical production model here in North America where you would have whether it be a freestyle setup or maybe even a dry model here in North America where you would have whether it be a freestyle setup or maybe even a dry lot setup in the Southwest, high levels of production, a lot of you know, high levels of feeding cows, housed manure, handled, those types of things which would be the typical dairy production model here in the States. New Zealand is quite the opposite, of course. They're a maritime climate over there, beautiful pasture land. They're able to grow cool season forages pretty much year round, so their forage quality is very high. So they take advantage of that with dairy production largely along with other ruminant production.

There's a lot of dairies over there that are grass-based and and that would be a dairy that the cows derive the majority of their their forage intake needs from grazed pasture. In many cases they they calve seasonally, so their whole herd calves at one time of the year, usually usually their spring and then they would their lactation curve, would follow the, the, the growth and quality curve of the of the cool season forages for the year and then, as that becomes less, then they would dry off for a couple months and start the whole cycle over again. We don't have some of the advantages they have in climate, but I would argue that maybe this is one of the areas that's maybe as closely aligned with that as anywhere in the US, aside from extreme temperatures, especially on the high side a lot hotter than they get over there.

But with the ability, here at our latitude we can grow grass 10 months a year, graze it 12 months and then having some fairly shallow water available plentiful water available here in the Delta, some fairly shallow water available, plentiful water available here in the Delta. We irrigate those pastures so our forage production potential is pretty high, which helps. But then the other side of that is, like I mentioned, they don't have to deal with hot temperatures and we have for a good portion of the year we're over 90 degrees, really conditions that aren't extremely conducive or very well conducive for a lactating dairy cow. So we actually calve in the fall. We're just coming through, as we're speaking here in October, we're just finishing up our calving season. So we calve in late September, early October, and then we milk through until late July and then we'll dry off for the months of August and early September, which is the least friendly time of year here, because it's extremely hot and forage quality is very poor and those types of things.

So grass-based, seasonal production, cows outside, minimal housing, minimal feed handling, virtually no manure handling, much lower production. We're going to get half the production or maybe less than what a confinement. Holstein cow is going to produce here in North America.

0:16:19 - Cal
So that's kind of a description of the differences of what the DeZeland model would look like compared to the North American model and you went to September, October, Kevin, to avoid that hot, humid weather as well as take advantage of cool season forages.

0:16:37 - Ted
That's right. Yeah, really, you know the thing about the South. We can produce a lot of forage and a big chunk of that is like dry cow feed, you know we so we produce a lot of mediocre forage. It's interesting dynamic, especially when you're dealing with something that demands higher quality. So we really need to target that, you know, and try to get get those winter annual forages that we can plant here over our over our warm season perennials and take advantage of those cooler temperatures. You're breeding cows when it's nice and cool in December here, all those things that that working with mother nature, not against her, that's for sure?

0:17:14 - Cal
Oh yeah, yeah, when you you moved from PA to Louisiana that's a big change. Did you go? Did you take your cows from Pennsylvania down or did you sell everything in Pennsylvania, go down to Louisiana? And then I guess you I may have answered my own question you didn't move cows down, you didn't have a barn when you moved down there.

0:17:37 - Ted
That's a really good question. We actually did move our cows down. We moved our cows and machinery and would have sold our real estate and, of course, our fixed assets up there, but everything else did come down and that was a chore I'd probably only want to do one time. We were very blessed. I forget how many loads of cattle ended up feeding with Youngstock. We moved about 100 milking down.

Oh yes 100 milking plus supporting young stock, and we're very blessed. We didn't even have a single ant that would even carry a leg off a trailer, so we were very thankful that that went as well as it did. Don't think I'd want to try it again and hope for those same results, but it was interesting. We moved them down in September, which is an interesting month down here because it can be very late summer, hot type weather or less likely, but can be moving into kind of a fall, you know, a fall more seasonal type, more comfortable weather. That particular year in 2009, september was exceptionally cool here. Oh yes, it really worked out nice. It was kind of very little transition for the cows, uh. But then of course, as time went by, I think the, the genetics have definitely.

0:18:53 - Cal
You know, as genetics do, they sort themselves out and you know, the ones that it could acclimate to the warmer climate, do better so so you were able to move those cows down when they were dry, before they were in milk.

0:19:06 - Ted
Actually we spring cabbed that year.

0:19:09 - Cal
Oh, okay, it was an interesting year.

0:19:11 - Ted
As you bring this up. I guess I tried to bury some of the stuff in my mind so I wouldn't have to think of it. But yeah, we spring cabbed in 2009. So we had a herd of cows that was about halfway through through lactation, or or more, probably for a two third stale, so they came down. And then, prior to that, in 2008, we we purchased a bunch of open heifers out of new york state, holstein jersey. They were kind of some byproducts of some of the the larger dairies up there were breeding your heifers jersey.

So we had a two-way cross we had available. We could purchase these as open animals brought them down and bred them the winter of 08, 09. And then they were set to calve in that fall. So here we are in September of 09 with a half stale herd heifers calving facility. You know, never quite ready. You know how that goes and that's a. That's a fall. We don't need to need to repeat any time soon. But we're we're, we're, we made it, we're here to talk about it, so we're yeah, that's great.

0:20:13 - Cal
So we we dairy with my grandparents and then we, or my dad, put in on his own dairy two miles away from my grandparents and of course we were milking year round. So we moved those cows down. As soon as we finished one morning Milking, we'd separate them off, hauled them down two miles until we evening milked down here and it was a mess so, and we were going two miles. So I can only imagine the logistics and how it all worked out to move them across the country.

0:20:44 - Ted
So yeah, it was interesting, yeah, but you know, cattle were, cattle were resilient, it's, it's amazing. Yeah, you take a take a crossbred cow. She's a pretty pretty hardy girl and yeah, they, they, they took it well, but it there's definitely a few wrinkles and it takes a little time to smooth them all out, but they all do eventually.

0:21:05 - Cal
Well, you mentioned crossbred there and you mentioned you'd purchased some Jersey Holstein cows. What kind of breeds are you going for? What kind of bulls are you using to get cows to excel in your system?

0:21:15 - Ted
Yeah, it's an interesting story itself. When we got started back in 2003 in Pennsylvania, when we first started in the dairy business, we had those Holstein Jersey type animals that were pretty available. And you love crossbreds and you want to keep crossbreeding, but how do you do it? That's the big question. How do?

you do it in a way that makes sense. So we really didn't know what we were doing. So we actually for probably, well, every year we were up there, we would take and we set up all of our March cavers which would be like our first 30-day cavers in our calving season and we set them up like a precinct off, say, and did a timed AI, and then we just put some cleanup bulls in a few days later so we're able to utilize some AI without it extending you real far into June and stuff like that. So, as far as genetics, we didn't know what we wanted to do. So we just picked a breed and we just bred with a different breed every year we used New.

Zealand, frisian. We used Swedish Red, montbeliard Brown, swiss, new Zealand Jersey. Really, everything we could find that wasn't North American is kind of what we did. So then we come down here and we switch to a fall seasonal calving schedule, so we'll be breeding everything in december.

Well, this is an area where there's no dairy, so there's no ai support work or anything very little and it's december and there's more important things to do, like go deer hunting and all that kind of stuff. So you can't find any help to breed cows. So we're like what are we?

going to do. Well, we just we figured we would. We got our hands on some crossbred bulls and we just bull breed till we figured this out. Well, that was 15 years ago and we're still just bull breeding everything. So we actually been we've been completely closed for about 10 years. So we took it, take all that genetic diversity that we kind of put together, clodge, podge, and that was our herd, and then we just selected bulls out of there from cow lines that we like try to be as diverse as we can with those lines. Oh yeah, and we've just, we've just used a composite, internally produced crossbred bull. They do a great job getting cows bred quickly and we like what we're working with. So these are all things that the industry kind of shuns but it's just what we do, and I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

I'm not here to make some kind of statement, but it has worked well for us. We're real pleased with what we're seeing. So it's pretty simple. Breeding is pretty simple. We just put the bulls in.

0:23:53 - Cal
Yeah, whatever works in your context doesn't mean it may work for someone else. It may not work, but it's working for you. So as you closed your herd about 10 years ago and you look at your herd, can you see some of those different breed influences carrying out that may be more prevalent now. That's worked better. Or is it meshed and merged into its own type more and you couldn't really say, oh, that's from the Swedish red we had, or the Montabelle, montabelle, lair Miliard yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, it's interesting.

0:24:31 - Ted
You know, you'd love to think that. You know we're going to have this perfectly aligned composite cross, that's, you know, evenly distributed across all these great breeds. And we both know that that doesn't work that way, right, but it does kind of to a point. But it is interesting. Some of the, for example, larger cattle seem to leave a little quicker, oh yes, or brown, swiss malt, billiard, those that were heavily influenced that way For whatever reason. It wasn't something that we manipulated or anything like that right, it does seem like we've. We've kind of settled into a little shorter, stouter, thicker type animal, maybe a little bit more frisian type animal, maybe that stature and a little thicker like that.

You know, that seems to and I'm guessing that's climate that probably drives what stays, you know. So our, our, our typical cows now gonna be probably a thousand pounds when she calves and maybe, maybe 1150, you know that that dry off something like that. So it's kind of a medium sized cow, but there is some. There's plenty of diversity and and unpredictabilityability. I guess you'd say that goes with. You know that many breeds represented. You do. You do you'll have a calf that's like. That looks like a purebred jersey. Where'd that come from? We?

haven't yes, yes, for years, but you know, so it's. I guess it's kind of we we're taking the genetic approach of really just kind of letting stuff do what it's going to do and what's going to thrive here, thrive, and hopefully that's a, that's an animal that you know, that's that's acceptable for us and so far that seems to be the case.

0:26:14 - Cal
I this term's not going to be correct or anything, but I like to think of it as you're doubling down on your cows. I know people talk about you know you can take three generation of bulls and just completely change your cow herd. Well, what if your cow herd and this is more towards beef people what if your cow herd is what you like Double down on your cows, keep your own bulls and then you're. You're expanding the influence of genetics of your best cows in your herd and keeping that in because you may not want to change your herd in three generations.

0:26:47 - Ted
Oh yeah that, yeah, that's such an accurate statement. That's absolutely a lot of our philosophy. You know we. We want to see, you know we want to take those traits of the cows that are at the middle of that bell-shaped curve. We don't want, you know, we're not breeding for milk. We're not.

You know we have a minimum that we we, that we would tolerate as far as production. We're not breeding for the top end of milk. We're not really breeding for the top end of anything. We want those ones that are thriving the best here. And then that even brings into the discussion epigenetics and what effect the climate has on genetic expression, which I've found to be absolutely intriguing.

The same genetics up north mature and behave differently down here than what they did up there, which just blew my mind. A couple examples of that would be you know, we would always debud our calves up there at about eight weeks old, always debud our calves up there at about eight weeks old, and we came down here and started calving in these conditions, especially the last trimester of gestation. It's, you know, 95 degrees every day. Whether that's the impact, whether that's the fact that it's affecting or not, I don't know, but these calves now we have to be out there around 12 weeks before we can even seal a bud to oh yeah, just interesting really yeah, I found it to be incredibly interesting.

and then the other end of that is, uh, on our replacement heifers, um, you know, we would always breed it, you know 15 months or something like that up there, and you know, know, calve in at around two years. And here these animals, they hold good flesh, they look fine, they just look so immature, way too immature, breed at that age. Oh, yes, so we actually had. It took us a few years to kind of come on board with this, but we actually have switched to a. We breed at two years old and calve at three years old Again.

Just something the industry would not tolerate at all, but it's just what happens to work here. And again, is that some sort of epigenetic expression based on you know what the climate does, you know how it impacts the cow? I don't know, but we're just trying to observe these things and take note of them and and follow them, rather than try to bend them to conform what we want to do, you know oh yes, and I I would assume you're growing your heifers out on forage only, so that's going to reduce that growth rate somewhat, depending on basically yeah, a lot of grazing.

And one thing about the southern forage model is there's some real flat spots in forage quality for anything like a young heifer or a lactating cow, and fall is a is a real tough time as far as forage quality. So we we'll keep our calves will be on free choice grain the first winter, then they'll go on forage at about six months old, and then we actually bring those yearlings, we actually put them back on self feeders for a few months.

That first fall when they're when they're one year old, because it's a very susceptible time for them as far as holding condition on very low quality forage. In fact, one thing that's really interesting is we run our yearlings with our two-year-olds. Both are open groups, so we will graze them together through the summer and then, as you're moving into late summer and fall and forage quality really falls apart, those two-year-olds just stay, butterball slick and the yearlings really start going backwards. Seems to be maybe I'm guessing, just maybe room and size.

you know the bigger heifer oh yeah and can take more low quality forage in and and and metabolize that and the in the younger effort can, I'm guessing. But again, we we can't answer exactly why, but we sure observed it and we're going to try to react to it appropriately to mitigate the negative effect.

0:30:51 - Cal
I'd love to talk more about the cows, but let's transition just a little bit and talk about your forages, what you're grazing. I know you moved down there in 2009. Yes, in 2009. What did it look like for forage base that you were starting from?

0:31:07 - Ted
As far as the forage base we were we were starting from, there was nothing here because it was row crop land and we were converting row crop land to to pasture. And that was a journey in itself because we thought that, you know, if you're familiar with the South, warm season perennials are kind of king Bermudagrass, bahiagrass, those types of things, and typically you're going to overseed with ryegrass or a small grain for a window of higher quality forage in the wintertime. Well, you know, we thought here in North Louisiana, surely we can get fescue to grow. We thought here in North Louisiana, surely we can get fescue to grow, because if we can get a cool season, perennial to grow this far south, that's the holy grail right Now. You have that quality and you have a perennial form. And we tried that for 10 years for eight years anyway, probably, trying to get fescue. How are we going to keep fescue here? You plant it and it looks great for like two years and it it just falls apart.

It can't can't seem to to handle the length of time of of hot, humid weather, hot, humid nights. The summer is just too long and hard on it. We tried, we spent a lot of time, but we gave up on that when we realized that we couldn't make it work. So we went to an improved hybrid Bermuda as our warm season perennial base across the whole farm. Russell Bermuda is actually what we're using.

And then we overseed with broadcast ryegrass and drilled oats on about two-thirds of the acreage for winter grazing, winter something. Oh yes, bring the quality in. We can grow clover here. Clover's a big component really, especially as your window of high-quality forage goes away at either end. You have that clover quality or that clover component in there and you can carry that quality out several more weeks, especially in the late spring. So we welcome that and we try to enhance that as much as we can through seed setting and things. In fact we got several years ago we actually got in the honeybee business as well, just to try to pollinate our clover better. So we have, and, like dairy farmers, if, if, milking 20 cows is fun, you know 200 is going to be a blast. So you know we can't have two beehives, we have, we have a couple hundred now.

Oh, yeah, and you're off the farm and stuff, but the our I think our objective, original objective was to to see more honeybees in the pastures was to see more honeybees in the pastures. We've definitely accomplished that and I think it's had a huge part of the impact on our, on our clover seed setting capability. So, um, you know that that's something we're really happy with. It doesn't cost money. You know to want to, you want to try to. You know initiate that as much as you can. As far as that self seeding of the of the gameumes, we're not actually buying any clover seed right now to overseed.

We're just relying on the self-seeding of the plants that are out there and then the cows because they do a great job of moving those hard seeds around with aggressive rotational grazing and things like that. So yeah, that's pretty much the basics of what our forage program looks like.

0:34:26 - Cal
And then, well, first off, before we move off to forage, are you planting any warm season annuals in there?

0:34:34 - Ted
Yeah, as soon as you ask that question, we're not. And it is a climate that sort of Sudan would do does great here, Crabgrass, those types of things. It's interesting in the south, or at least this far south where you have water anywhere, you're irrigating those. The warm season is long enough that the, the crab grass and and some millets and even johnson grass tends to really come on its own.

So yeah we're, we, we're really really try to leverage that volunteer summer annual grasses. You know that that are, you know, largely considered weeds in some circles, but is, is, is very digestible forage, especially in the warm season. So we try to leverage that as much as we can. We, we, we, we definitely want to see those forages coming and the water, the water helps bring them. So we try to promote that as much as we can and and it's definitely in June and early July as we're getting toward the end of lactation, those are, those are definitely you can make more milk on summer annuals when we can Bermuda grass that time of year, because we're digestible, oh yeah.

0:35:43 - Cal
With your, your forages and your your grazing. How are you managing your cows and where they're grazing?

0:35:52 - Ted
you know, without without having a, a map up to show you, which would make a little bit easier, but to kind of describe our, our main dairy platform, we would have our, our, our milking center is right in the middle of of about a thousand acre block uh okay, and then on either side of of the milking center the milking parlor we have, we have two of our larger pivots, center pivots.

One's a 300 acre pivot on the east side and a 200 acre pivot on the west side, so two big circles with the milk parlor right in the center, and then we would move out and we could you know we have those have those fields pretty much divided up, kind of pie shape type configuration. Where we could. We had our towel lane went around. There was a circle on under each pivot and off of that circle lane we could. We could hit whatever paddocks we wanted to and it worked, worked pretty well. We we typically have paddocks we wanted to Worked pretty well. We typically have not done a lot of polywire subdivision. We kind of set the paddock sizes to what our milking herd was going to be and then we basically managed residuals with leader, follower groups or heifer groups, bull group, those types of things. It worked pretty well. It wasn't optimal with grass utilization but it got the job done as far as basically getting the residuals we were looking for. Now I say all that In the last year, last spring to be exact, we put virtual fence collars on our cows, which has really been a game changer for us.

We took out a lot of our grass fences and have much bigger paddocks now. But we just, you know, we can break those cows virtually, you know, into whatever paddock sizes we we want them to be. So that that's kind of how we're, we're managing the cows now. But we are, we're able to rotate more aggressively, take residuals down to the levels we want to, more so than we could before.

But yeah, to answer your question simply would be we want to rotate. You know we're rotationally grazing, you know, as aggressively as we can. We've been catter as often as we can, you know, to try to get that fastest regrowth that we can get. And again, without, without going in and taking that second bite, you know, in that grass before it's able to to to regrow. You know, basically, basically, we're trying to mimic the Buffalo herd. We want to keep the cows moving. We'll have maximum pressure for the shortest duration period of time and then the longest rest possible before we come back Seems to be probably the best from a forage utilization standpoint, for cow performance, but also from a soil health standpoint too.

0:38:38 - Cal
One thing we didn't talk about earlier how many times a day are you milking?

0:38:43 - Ted
We are milking twice. Yeah, we start out twice a day. Are you milking? We are milking twice. Yeah, we start out with twice a day when we calve and then we actually do the last 60 days, 60 to 80 days of lactation. We have been the past several years moving to a modified, like a three and two type schedule where we'll milk once one day, twice the next day, and that's worked really well because we don't seem to lose much production from what we would have been at. Yeah, somatic sales still stays in line, more so than it seems like it did when we tried just going cold turkey to like once a day, yeah, and it allows us to manage our labor a little bit more efficiently and those types of things. So we've really enjoyed that modified schedule.

0:39:27 - Cal
The last quarter lactation Well, let's go ahead and jump back to your fencing just a little bit. I wanted to get that in there about milking schedule because I just wasn't sure about it. I'd assumed twice a day, but I see I follow a guy on YouTube that does once a day milking, which I think is interesting. Yeah.

0:39:48 - Ted
Go ahead. No, I was just going to say it is. We're drawn to more of the less frequent milking. It seems like certain times of the year, as we start to warm up, somatic sale can be more of a challenge. We're trying to manage against that, making sure that stays in line. But but yeah, that's that kind of goes with the, with the grazing mindset, we can, we can. We can utilize grass more, be able to be more labor efficient and still get a level of milk production that's acceptable. I think our margin in this type of model is better with, in some cases, less frequent milking.

0:40:24 - Cal
Oh yeah, yeah, better with, in some cases, less rate with milking. Oh yeah, well, let's transition to the overgrazing section, sponsored by Redmond. At Redmond, we know that you thrive when your animals do. That's why it's essential to fill the gaps in your herd's nutrition with the minerals that they need. Made by nature, our ancient mineral salt and conditioner clay, are the catalyst in optimizing the nutrients your animals get from their forage. Unaltered and unrefined, our minerals have the natural balance and proportion that your animals prefer. This gives your herd the ability to naturally regulate their mineral consumption as they graze. Our minerals won't just help you improve the health of your animals, but will also help you naturally build soil fertility so you can grow more nutrient-dense pasture year after year. Nourish your animals, your soil and your life with Redmond. Learn more at redmondagriculturecom. And we just talked a little bit about it was your virtual fence callers. So I think you said you started that last spring.

0:41:38 - Ted
That's correct. Yeah, this past April of 2024 is when we collared our first cows and a little bit of a little bit of background on that whole journey. About two years ago I reached out to a New Zealand company by the name of Halter. They were a young virtual fence company at that time, just been in business for a few years, Kind of that's where kind of everybody's been in that space. You know, it's been pretty new that since that's come out and I read about them in the new zealand dairy exporter and and I'll reach out and see if I can talk to somebody. I'm sure it's not available in the states but it'd be cool to talk to them.

So started started talking with an individual from there and, as it turned out, they aspired to come to the states. They weren't here yet but they aspired to bring their collars over here at some point in the future. So you know we started talking about what that would look like here and all those types of things. So again, to make a long story short, it was two years of that, really a year and a half of them kind of getting to a point where they could launch over here. That worked out good, a point where they could launch over here. That worked out good. It kind of gave us an opportunity to really digest that whole thing and say, okay, what's this maybe gonna look?

0:42:50 - Cal
like here is something that's gonna fit for us.

0:42:53 - Ted
You know it was nice to be able to kind of take that slow and methodical still being an unknown, you don't know, but you at least you can think about a little longer, you know. So, as they, when they were ready this spring we were were ready. So we set up the infrastructure here, which is just two towers on the farm that communicate with the callers. They're solar powered. Both the callers and the towers are solar powered, and the towers make their own Wi-Fi as far as their communication with the collar. So it's pretty independent of you. Know you don't need Wi-Fi across the form or anything like that. They do rely on us. I think it's a cell signal. Maybe that lets them do that.

But yeah, these are a solar-powered collar that allow you to virtually break and control the cattle as far as anywhere. You could could polywire cattle. You can, you know, with your phone you can just draw the brakes and and hold the cattle virtually. They also will virtually shift the cattle from paddock to the milking parlor or from paddock to paddock, which is a great feature, uh, and it's. It's watching the cows adapt to.

This has been really really just an amazing experience, and I I guess I need to give the cows credit for being a lot smarter now than what I always thought they were, but but they actually there's a, there's a series of props that they get through tearing vibration, pulsing vibration and and in in an extreme situation of shock, that that initiate the cattle to to move a certain direction and you'll take them out a certain gate and it'll take them to the milking parlor, which is, which is pretty cool, because you know you can set up what time you want to start milking, and then you would, you would schedule your shift accordingly so that those cattle would shift and be at the parlor waiting for you when it's time to milk, which is a which is a nice feature for sure, labor saver right, because always when we dairy, you know someone came down a half hour to an hour if it's summer before milking time to get the cows in.

0:45:03 - Cal
that's right, that's right, yeah, yeah's right, yeah.

0:45:05 - Ted
Yeah, so either you know that guy's getting less sleep than everybody else is. Or in our cases. Sometimes our, our guys are, and we're thankful for it. They're they're pretty aggressive and want to be here, so I try to explain to them that I'm going to go over earlier. Get the cows. You guys come over certain time. Well, I go over, then they go over. So then you know what that is. That's a couple of guys waiting around at the parlor that you're paying to do nothing for a while.

So it has really made that whole thing more efficient. And then, alongside that, they're a full activity caller. They're monitoring rumination, grazing time, resting, heat detection, those types of things. That's a really cool thing. We've never used activity collars before, so it's the data that we can get from that is very helpful. And then you know, with coming out of New Zealand you know they're so in tune with grass utilization. They're so good at it over there because, their land's so high price.

It's a limited resource, but they're really good at at residuals and and utilizing every, every kilogram for for their, in their situation, every kg of dry mire they can. They can get over there. So this thing is a whole grass management tool too. Like when you, when you would set a, when you would draw a break for the cattle, it would it'll, it'll tell you exactly how much area each cow has, and now over there they're actually using satellite imagery to give them free grazing cover estimates and then, you, you would.

the app has a feature where you would take pictures of the residual when you leave the field and it calculates how much residual you have and then how much you utilize and how much you fed each cow. So as far as it's taken our management, it's cranked it up from where we used to be. As far as understanding, you know, grass utilization, that's kind of cool and I'm not even using all that stuff. It's not geared quite right for here yet. Oh yeah, I'm trying to load a lot of residual pictures and, you know, through the algorithm and stuff, get those a little more accurate than what they are right now. But it is definitely more. I guess I say all that to say it's definitely more than just a virtual boundary tool.

Oh yeah, you know it's a, it's a whole forage utilization tool, which it's I've found to be pretty powerful.

0:47:39 - Cal
Well, I hadn't even thought about that, to be honest, ted, you know I was thinking of it as sure you do some activity monitoring, maybe catch a cow in heat, or if a cow's starting to feel bad, you notice that earlier. But mainly just as a boundary I hadn't even thought about. With that defined boundary, you can do all kinds of calculations on that, because you know exactly where they were, how long they were and if you're, you're using that. For all that, that, that gives you a lot of potential data at your fingertips.

0:48:13 - Ted
It really does. Yeah, it has and continues to educate me and and and grow. You know my ability as a, as a grazer or grass manager, so that's exciting. You know that it can do those types of things and the other. The other thing is, you know like, you know, we all know. You know, especially if we're dairy grazers, we tend to. You know, we know there's there's frequent moves for cattle. You can increase your forage utilization and take those types of things.

But but then there's the you know, there's the point where you know, know, where does it become impractical to move a polywire?

you know three, four times a day, whatever or more, whereas if the polywire or the breaking requires no labor, now you know the sky's the limit on that. You know so we can. We can set, yeah, yeah, we can set those cattle to shift to new grass. You know as many times as we'd love as we want to across the course of a graze during the day or at night or whatever, and then still shift them to the parlor. Then we assign them to milk. So it's, it's that, that's been, that. That's been a big deal for us to be, just to be able to. We weren't big polywire users just for whatever reason. This wasn't really part of our model, but now we're really embracing, you know the multiple, you know shifts through the course of the graze, which is which is exciting and I know you're you're working with a large number of cows, so it gives you some flexibility there.

0:49:37 - Cal
On size, how small of area can those fence, those virtual fence collars, get cows down to without it being a problem?

0:49:47 - Ted
Yeah, that's a good question. It allows you, like on the app on my phone I can draw that real small and I think the buffering might be like wherever the virtual line on the app is. There may be a meteor or two on either side.

Oh yeah, you know that, that, that there's a little fluctuation in where they, those cows, actually stop grazing. But it is pretty interesting. You know, when you're, when you, when you're grazing through some pretty tall grass or some you know more cover, there, you draw that line. It's a pretty well-defined line.

0:50:23 - Cal
After oh yeah where they stop at.

0:50:26 - Ted
But yeah, I mean you could, you could take that down to you know, I'm trying to think we put some small broods of cattle in just a just a real tiny little area oh yeah you know, or, if you want to, if you want to fence out a little like a, like a ditch or a saint cole or something you don't want the cattle to be near you. You know a tree, you could draw around a tree that they, you know, anything like that. It's, it's, it's pretty detailed.

0:50:52 - Cal
Oh yeah, that's interesting. How did you get your cows used to the collars and get that going? Was it a lot of transition and get them there, or did the cows take to it pretty naturally? Yeah, it was.

0:51:07 - Ted
It was actually a pretty, pretty easy process. It was. There were there were two farms in the U? S that were launching when we launched us and one other and they were putting them on some stalkers up at Oregon at the same time.

0:51:18 - Cal
Oh yeah.

0:51:18 - Ted
So fortunately, which is not normally the case when a when a herd would start up, we had we had a person from Halter who was here on the ground, so he actually helped us, collar. Oh, yeah, and then he was here to help walk us through the training, which was great to see his perspective and kind of have him take our hand on that. But yeah, really, as far as the virtual boundary, as far as the virtual boundary, they start respecting that in 48 to 96 hours.

0:51:52 - Cal
Oh, yes, it doesn't take long.

0:51:54 - Ted
What we would do is we went out the first evening. In fact, we collared cows. Took us a day and a half to collar the milk and herd and we were exhausted. Peter, he said we're going to be done in time. We can train cows this evening. The last thing I want to do is train cows this evening, right? So we go out and it's pretty simple. We just we took a paddock, we took a polywire, split the paddock in half and then we drew the virtual boundary about 10 meters in front of the polywire. So the cow had the opportunity to visually approach the polywire and then experience the collar as she hit that virtual boundary before she got to them.

So there was kind of a connection made there and it was amazing. The next morning we went out and you could see it was a little more jagged but you could see a line 10 meters ahead of the polywire. They're like, well, these girls are, you know they're, they're experiencing the collar before they're grazing up to the fence, you know. So we, we did that for for three or four days and then we, then we removed the polywire and and you knowwire and watched them and you can. The other thing that's pretty cool is the cows show up on your phone as little color-coded dots, depending on what mob they're in, so you can see everything happening in real time. You can see if they're in the break or out of the break.

0:53:20 - Cal
Oh yeah.

0:53:20 - Ted
And yeah, within a couple of days that was down. And yeah, within a couple of days that that was down. And then the, the, the virtual shifting takes them a little bit longer because, you know, the virtual boundary is the cows. Okay, I do something negative, I, I, I break the rules, so to speak, and I experienced negative things. You know, I crossed the line and I, oh, yeah, whereas virtual shifting is okay, I'm prompted to do this positive thing, you thing, an example, walking toward the milking parlor and when I don't do that, I'm experiencing negative prompts. And then when I step into that and do what I'm supposed to, they go away. So it's almost like the training is kind of reversed for the cow from the virtual boundary. So that took a little longer. That took probably 10 days, maybe.

0:54:11 - Cal
Oh yeah.

0:54:12 - Ted
But it wasn't bad. What we would do is we would initiate the shift on the app to shift the cows to par and at the same time, we would go out with a four-wheeler and do what we normally would do and at the same time, we would go out with the four-wheeler and do what we normally would do. So the cows are experiencing this prompt. Oh yeah, and seeing what they're used to, you know we open the gate and we do the thing you know and they would. Then then they tie the two together and then then we would delay how long it would take for us to get. You know we would.

We would start the shift and then we'd maybe show up five minutes later oh yeah if they weren't starting to, you know, starting to come in and just kept backing that off. To what till? They didn't need the prompting of what they saw in us to know that the shift was happening. And and then, and now they you know it's almost now well, they react more and out of that than they, the four-wheeler it used to be you drive on steel and it's not shifting time and they think it is just because the four-wheeler showed up.

0:55:11 - Cal
Oh, right, yeah. Now they don't act that way anymore because they've associated the collar and the tones with the shift, which is nice because I can remember going out early to do something and I have a couple cows show up at the barn.

0:55:24 - Ted
I'm like you'll go back out, it's not time yet Right right, you're like you didn't read the script. This isn't right, right. Yeah, I was out there doing something else. That's exactly right.

Now are you only using the collars on the milking herd and we also collared our breeding age heifer group because they would be grazing the main dairy grazing platform. Our goal was to everything that was going to spend time on the main platform I figured would need to be collared so that we could know, so we could remove fences like we wanted to, and really, you know, allow the groups to do that Now and we collar our heifers as well. The only group we've not collared yet is our bulls. They've had, they've done limited work with that over there because there's a lot more AI and a lot less bull ho.

You'd say, I mean we, we run up. You know we were 100 bulls, from our most mature down through to our smallest, and so I mean they don't do that over there. So it really wasn't applicable. But that was one of my hang-ups when we were talking. You know, initially I said I'm gonna need to call these bulls and they said, well, I don't know if you can. I said, well, I mean we might need to try. So we're actually going to do some, some trial work with that this fall. We're gonna, we're gonna call it, and I think maybe we might have to put collars on a little bit more snugly you know, tighter and and it may mean more frequent adjusting.

so we may have to modify our, our handling facilities to do that. If we in fact need to do that, I'm not sure at this point. That's all a big blank slate, we're not sure how that's going to go. It'd be great to collar them, and if they'll hold collars just because of the group is so much nicer to manage as a collar group.

You can do things with them. You can't do otherwise. But there's some question marks there. So we're going to kind of work through that this year a little, another month or so we're going to start experimenting with that and see how it goes. But yeah, all the, all the female groups from you know from from, say, two years and up, or or definitely call Yep. Oh, yeah, do you are you having to adjust those callers very often?

0:57:41 - Cal
You know, we we don't.

0:57:44 - Ted
And it was interesting very often you know, we we don't, and it was interesting we, you know, the youngest ones we call are we're our heifers and we first got started and I was asking them about that and they found that over there, you know, if you're, if you're calling them at like breeding age, it's, it's like, it's amazing, I guess, how much the the neck does not grow substantially in proportion to the body.

Oh, yes, uh from what they said and I said, well, yeah, yeah makes sense. So. But has has been the case. We, who, we, when we colored the cows, we, you know they have, they have settings on the on the on on the buckles, you know. So it's easy to kind of tell where you're at when you're, when you're fastening it. They gave a recommended size that they use over there and we started putting them on that. That's going to be a little too loose or a little too tight, I'm afraid. So we're going to. We kind of aired to the bigger side.

Well, we had a few callers come off right maybe a half dozen, and it did seem like I think we went back to kind of their recommendation on those, you know, on their cows over there, and that's pretty close to, I think, where we are. So when we call it our heifers we were, we aired a little more that way, kind of a a little not a not a tight fit, but a little more snugly fit we haven't had anything come off and and we haven't had to, we haven't had any of them come off and we haven't had to.

We haven't had to adjust them yet either. So you know we're monitoring that you know, but at this point we've not had to do any adjusting.

0:59:14 - Cal
Oh yeah, interesting. Well, I find the the virtual fencing, virtual fence very interesting. I'd love for it to get to a price point I could afford it, but I I do find it very interesting. I think it's being such a young industry it's going to mature or grow so rapidly. It's going to be really interesting to see where it goes and where the price ends up and stuff.

0:59:38 - Ted
Yeah, you're absolutely right. I think it's you know the little bit that we've handled it. I feel pretty safe to say it's definitely one of the most powerful tools we've had. Hit the grazing industry in my career for sure, and I think all of those things that you just said there. I think that maturing process is probably going to happen pretty rapidly, I think.

1:00:03 - Cal
Oh yeah, let's shift gears just a little bit. We've talked about what you're doing. What's happened in the past?

1:00:13 - Ted
Where do you see the future going for you all? Yeah, that's a good question too, and this is something that we think about and talk about, especially in this area we find ourselves in, in the area of grazing, grazing dairy. First of all, you know, grazing and dairying seems to be uncoupling a little more than what they used to be. I I don't like that fact, but it seems like it's true, to a certain degree it's.

It's hard to to take a 600 cow grazing herd and make it a 3,000-cow grazing herd, which is what the industry is doing. The consolidation, the herd size, increases. That's an impossibility with this model. We're limited at where we are.

We're tied to the land base that's going to dictate our herd size and we're not going to change our model just to bring in more cows and work harder and all those sorts of things. So that's all great. But you look at the economics of where dairy's gone. A lot of dairy's economic model is expansion. Oh yeah, it is. So how do we maintain a competitive cost of production with an ever increasingly consolidating industry where those fixed costs continue to be driven lower and lower and we've purposely handicapped ourselves from that? How do we stay competitive? Because we want to stay competitive, we want to continue to operate this level. We like the family structure. We do three to four outside employees as well, but we still like that structure. So I don't know.

We've looked at different types of markets. We're just on the commodity market. We're competing with all the milk out of Texas and all that stuff. Oh yeah, there's nothing special about our product from a marketing standpoint, even though maybe there should be. We've looked at A2s getting bigger over here. Oh yeah, it is. It wouldn't be a big jump for us, I think, if we started testing all of our replacing bulls we're keeping. I think in a few years it wouldn't take too long to be A2. That could be a potential. We've looked at value adding here. You know we don't have immediate plans to do that, but we sure have explored it.

1:02:43 - Cal
There's no yeah.

1:02:45 - Ted
There's less than 50 dairies left in the state there's. There's no dairies within 120 miles of our place in either any direction so everybody.

There's a lot of interest and we know where the consumer is today. Right, I mean, they're really interested in where their food comes from, and right, you know. So we say, well, are we missing something here? You know, I mean, what would it take for us to, you know, market a pasteurized milk product, ice cream? You know, tour people on the farm, you very business savvy, well-researched, methodical way. But you know, our family is to a point where our kids are out of the house, you know, are kind of in that college phase and getting out and maybe wanting to, you know, to be part of the business here. But that's obvious that's not going to be helping more cows. So you know, know right all those things?

a possibility they sure are. Um, if none of them come to fruition, can we continue to excuse me, ship, you know, commodity milk at this scale, long-term? Is that competitive maybe? I mean, I'm not saying we can't, I, I, I hate to, I would hate to write that off and say you just have to get bigger or you got to get out. I don't think that's necessarily true, you know. So I said all that to not answer your question very well at all, but I will say it's something that we think about all the time.

1:04:21 - Cal
Oh yeah, yeah, Well, yeah, yeah Well, yeah, I just know. When I look at the commodity market on milk, I'm just shocked by how little it's changed from when we were shipping milk 30 years ago. Yeah, so yeah, figuring that out, ted. It's time we move to our famous four questions, sponsored by Ken Cove Farm Fence. Ken Cove Farm Fence is a proud supporter of the Grazing Grass Podcast and grazers everywhere.

At Kin Cove Farm Fence. They believe there's true value within the community of grazers and land stewards. The results that follow proper management and monitoring can change the very world around us. That's why Kin Cove is dedicated to providing an ever-expanding line of grazing products to make your chores easier and your land more abundant. Whether you're growing your own food on the homestead or grazing on thousands of acres, ken Cove has everything you need to do it well, from reels to tumblewills, polytwine to electric nets, water valves to water troughs, you'll find what you're looking for at Ken Cove. They carry brands like Speedrite, o'briens, kiwi Tech, strainrite, jobe and more. Ken Cove is proud to be part of your regenerative journey. Call them today or visit KenCovecom, and be sure to follow them on social media and subscribe to the Ken Cove YouTube channel at Ken Cove Farm Fence for helpful how-to videos and new product releases. There are the same four questions we ask of all of our guests. And our first question what is your favorite grazing grass-related book or resource?

1:06:01 - Ted
That's a pretty easy question. I wish I could say I read books all the time. I really wish I read a lot more books than I do and I know there's some great books on this topic that I know I could benefit from. But I will have to say, because you've added publication to that list and not just books, Grey's Magazine has probably been the most influential for me. I subscribed to that probably before we bought our first cow, and just over the years.

you know reading what producers talk about what's worked, what hasn't, really have a lot of respect for joel mcnair and his philosophy and and you know what. You know what his vision for for grazing even specifically grazing dairies has been over the years, and just can't say enough about that publication. Of course it's changed hands now and I think it's in very good hands now as well, but that's one I recommend anybody who's looking to get into the business or isn't currently subscribed to.

1:07:08 - Cal
Graze is an excellent resource there. Yes, Our second question what's your favorite tool for the farm?

1:07:16 - Ted
Well, that's probably changed over the years, you know, as we've been able to grow some and get a little more efficient on some of our and I hate to say machinery, because we try to run away from machinery even though you know it's, but as as we've grown over the years, we were several years ago we got a swather for cutting our hay, which has really streamlined that process, but that's that maybe was my favorite tool before we started collaring cows.

And I got to say the, the collars are just uh, that's going to be a, that'd be a tough one to live without, so they they'd be our favorite pool at this point.

1:07:53 - Cal
Oh, yeah, yeah, so so very exciting times, because that's a recent introduction.

1:07:58 - Ted
Yeah.

1:07:59 - Cal
Yeah. Thirdly, what would you tell someone just getting started?

1:08:06 - Ted
I'd probably tell them a couple of things.

And and when you, when you think of someone, that context just getting started, I know what that I remember that really well, because this is not, this is not an environment I grew up in and I I remember stepping out into this, what that felt like and I would, I would take as I would get time away from my day job.

I'd I'd run off to pasture walks or or grazing workshops and things like that. And I remember one time I was at a grazing workshop and the guy that stood up and talked I don't remember what the topic was, but there was like a dry erase board or something there and he stood up and said anything. He just wrote the words confidence in grass and underlined it and I thought that's kind of odd. And then he talked from there and he said you will not be successful as a grazer if you can't learn to have an appreciation and understanding for the nutritional value of quality grazed forage and what it can do for the performance of an animal in a relatively economic way. You have to develop that confidence. It's not just, you know, let the cows out before they come back in for the rest of their feed, you know it's oh yeah, they're out there for a purpose.

So you have to, you have to really develop a faith, maybe along with maybe that's a better way of putting it in. So that would be something I would just because it stuck in my mind. I would would be some advice for a young person. And the other thing I would say is mentorship is probably the best thing you can do. I have been, I've spent a lot of time with guys that are way older than enough to be my dad, and I have learned a lot from those guys, guys that have experienced ups and downs in the business before I was born, and those types of folks. They have some real value and I think that anyone who would be venturing off into this would do well to identify and look up with a good mentor.

1:10:20 - Cal
Yeah, two excellent pieces of advice there for someone getting started. And lastly, Ted, where can others find out more about you?

1:10:29 - Ted
Well, I'm actually myself not on social media at all. Or Dairy is? You could look up Delta Dairy on Facebook. We don't have a website at this point. Like I said, we're talking about doing that type of thing, possibly if we're going to become more of a direct marketer type thing. But you can find us there and I have an email. I guess I could give you that to put in the in the notes. Any kind of personal contact information, phone number, email, be glad to respond to anyone who'd like to reach out, but I'm a little bit old school in some of that stuff. My wife's on social media but I'm not.

1:11:11 - Cal
I know when I was, I had a listener reach out and say, hey, contact Ted, he'd be a great guest on the podcast. So I went to try and find out more information about you and I found there's not a whole lot out there, but I did find on the Louisiana grazing land coalition they have a video about your dairy that was made a few years ago, which I thought was really good and gave me more information. So there's a place for more information as well, I'm glad you brought that up.

1:11:38 - Ted
I forgot about that. Yeah, that would be a great place. For sure you could check that out on YouTube.

1:11:44 - Cal
Yeah, Well, Ted, we appreciate you coming on and sharing today. Really enjoyed the conversation.

1:11:51 - Ted
Yeah, thanks for having me on. I really enjoyed the conversation, always like to talk about this kind of stuff and had a great time. Thanks for the invite.

1:11:59 - Cal
Wonderful. I really hope you enjoyed today's conversation. I know I did. Thank you for listening and if you found something useful, please share it. Share it on your social media, tell your friends, get the word out about the podcast. Helps us grow.

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Transcribed by https://podium.page