Regenerative Ag Stories on the Grazing Grass Podcast

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0:00:00 - Cal
Welcome to the Grazing Grass Podcast, episode 121.

0:00:04 - Hunter
Most profitable way to ranch and the most environmentally friendly way to ranch and produces the most nutrient-dense food.

0:00:12 - Cal
You're listening to the Grazing Grass Podcast, sharing information and stories of grass-based livestock production utilizing regenerative practices. I'm your host, cal Hartage. You're growing more than grass. You're growing a healthier ecosystem to help your cattle thrive in their environment. You're growing your livelihood by increasing your carrying capacity and reducing your operating costs. You're growing stronger communities and a legacy to last generations. The grazing management decisions you make today Impact everything from the soil beneath your feet to the community all around you. That's why the Noble Research Institute created their Essentials of Regenerative Grazing course To teach ranchers like you easy-to-follow techniques to quickly assess your forage, production and infrastructure capacity in order to begin grazing more efficiently. Together, they can help you grow not only a healthier operation, but a legacy that lasts. Learn more on their website at nobleorg. Slash grazing. It's n-o-b-l-e dot org. Forward slash grazing.

On today's show we have Hunter Lehman of Grazing Lands. Hunter was on the podcast about 11 months ago on episode 64. And Hunter made a big change, went to work for Grazing Lands and we're going to talk about his journey in the last year and what they're doing at Grazing Lands, and then we'll dive into some genetics they're working towards on the ranch and wrap it up with the famous four questions. We did run into a few issues. For one, the tail end of my audio was cut off from the interview, so I've had to re-record some of it, which caused some problems. And the second thing is not really related to this particular episode, but my computer had fits today, took way too long to edit this. It normally doesn't take me this long. Anyway, it's a really good episode and I think you'll enjoy it.

Ten seconds about my farm. I am doing something I don't like to do. I am clipping some pastures, I am mowing brush hogging I don't enjoy it, but I'm trying to keep some of the sericea lespedeza. I'm trying to knock it back and keep it from all going to seed this fall. And a couple of my pastures, a couple of one of them, mainly where they reclaim land. Sericea, or sericea, was one of the the main grasses they put in there and it has responded wonderfully to my grazing management, which tells me I need to improve my grazing management. So I'm working on that, but I'm cutting that sericea down so that we don't have it going to seed Not my favorite activity, but sometimes you've got to do some of these activities to get to where you want to be Ten seconds about the podcast.

Podcast, thank you. Okay, thank you. 10 seconds about the podcast. I'd like to say thank you to Tom and Joe for becoming grazing grass. Insiders appreciate that. Thank you for your support and let's talk to Hunter. Let's talk to Hunter. Let's talk to Hunter. Hunter, we want to welcome you back to the Grazing Grass Podcast. We're excited you're here today.

0:05:58 - Hunter
Thank you, Cal. I appreciate you having me back. It's been almost a year, but a lot's changed in that almost a year.

0:06:05 - Cal
We are excited to find out about that and, speaking of that, I looked it up Last year. Your episode was in July, so just about 11 months later. Find out what's going on for you. When we left you last time, you were managing a hunting property and you were doing some grazing with Vince and going down that path. I believe you were still doing all stocker cows at that time. So tell us a little bit about how your journey's evolved and where you are now yeah, so we've.

0:06:40 - Hunter
We've left that place and moved a couple hundred miles north and east near Stockdale, texas. I'm still heavily involved with that ranch and still helping them and going back monthly and consulting for them, just because we love that place and love the people and the family. And we moved there when we were married for six months and we brought our son home to that ranch and it's hard to leave. But we have had opportunity up here that would be stupid to pass up. So just they didn't really give me an option. I had to do it or regret it the rest of my life. So we're yeah, we're still heavily involved there and still using the virtual fencing there.

I helped them hire a guy to do the day-to-day stuff. We were running the place as a hunting ranch as my day job and then nights and weekends we leased the grazing and ran the cattle on it too, and so we found a guy to do the day-to-day stuff, run the hunting ranch, and he's also helping out with the cows. But the good thing is, with a low input system and virtual fencing, there's just not that much day-to-day stuff to do with the cows. Virtual fencing there's just not that much day-to-day stuff to do with the cows, so it's working out okay so far. Since last time we transitioned there to cow-calf with a static cow herd, we were trading cows, buying bred cows, getting the calves out of them, and I just happened to train new cows all the time with the virtual fence.

It was just too much work and you could also, as they get trained, you can get pretty creative with how you use the virtual fencing, and so having a well-trained static herd was pretty valuable on that place. So we made that transition. We kept the best of the last group that we planted on just selling and added to them a little bit.

So we went through the hunting season with well-trained cows, which was nice, because while we were busy hunting we didn't really have to worry about whether they were staying in or not. And then, and we actually we grazed some Sacawista, which is it's Gulf cord grass. It's a extremely productive grass but the problem is like very productive, like four or 5,000 pounds per acre productive. But the problem is if it gets over the top of your toe of your boot. It's not palatable anymore.

So the only way to really graze it is to burn it and then put the cows on it as soon as it comes out of the ground and just try to keep it, and I've never done that before. I was hoping to get 30 days out of the patch we burned and it'll grow green year round. It's got such a root system, it doesn't need very much soil moisture to stay green, and so our plan was to graze that over the winter, and I was hoping to get 30 days out of it, and we ended up getting uh, 70, 75, something like that oh wow, really happy with how that worked.

But it's not. Even when it's young like that, it's really not that palatable. They don't really like it. And so we ended up having to squeeze the virtual fencing down where there was zero other grass other than that Sacroista, to get them to graze it, because they were just chewing everything else down. They would not go out there, and so that virtual fencing worked great, because they were really on some grass that they didn't want to be on and we didn't have any problems with them getting out, and so I was really happy with that.

We were understocked. We added some cows to that herd and we had a technical problem on some collars that we didn't know about until we were thinking, man, this group of cows is really hard to train. Oh yes, we are stubborn man, and this is probably, let's see, the fourth group that we've trained, and so we are starting to figure it out. We're like, shoot man, we thought we had this thing figured out with. Like, these cows are man, they're stubborn. So I got to talking to folks at Vince and maybe there's a problem we don't know about, and they got to digging and figured out that we had collars that were not being managed.

And we had, so we so there's some technical problem. Luckily it's something that they can fix on their end, like remotely, and it's just taking time to update it every individual caller.

So now we're working on gathering everything, putting them back in into a hard fenced area and start the training all over again because none of them got trained. So but that's part of being on the cutting edge. I guess there's going to be technical difficulties, but everything was going so great and I was so excited Okay, this is going to work, this is, this is these cows that have been here for six, eight months. They are really. They understand it Like I love it. And then, as soon as I thought that right around the corner we had we're trying to train cows and then having technical difficulties while we're training, it turned into a bit of a wreck. But coming out of that now, hopefully we'll get them retrained and get that going good again, like we had it in the winter.

0:11:17 - Cal
Yeah, if you're not having some kind of problem, you're not trying hard enough.

0:11:23 - Hunter
Yeah, when you start talking about putting shock collars on cows, that is pretty you should expect some problems. So just on those shock collars.

0:11:31 - Cal
Have you felt how hard they shock, or have they? Yeah, they.

0:11:35 - Hunter
I wish I could remember One of the Vince people on a podcast one time he said like the voltage, and oh yeah, Gosh, I wish I could remember. I think it's less than a thousand volts. Oh yeah, so it's. It's a heck of a lot less than a good hot wire and I've tested it on accident, but I, I test. I tested one on accident one time and it's really not that bad. It made me drop the collar, but Right.

Yeah, and that's a good thing, because if you leave a calf behind, the cow's going to go get her calf. She'll just walk right through it if she's got her calf over there. So you want that, but you better do your training right, because if you teach them that they can grit their teeth, then that's just the way they're going to handle it.

0:12:18 - Cal
They're just going to grit their teeth. I know years ago when I had a few goats and I had one of my livestock guardian dogs and they were not staying with the flock like I wanted them to, so I decided I bought one of those shock collars that you bury the fence. So I just ran that fence along my perimeter fence just a five acre paddock, and I was making a few YouTube videos at the time. So for the YouTube video I talked about putting it in and then I shocked. I tested it out to find how bad it shocked, which, to be honest, I'd rather take that than my electric fence out here. That'll pop you and my funny bone hurts. I don't like touching that Right. Yeah, I did throw down the collar, but yesterday I threw down a reel and that cost a lot of money. At least nothing broke, but I thought I had.

I have zammer hooks on the end of my reels. I love those zammer hooks. But here's one negative I'd moved it to so the line was dead and I was at the other end, just an eighth of a mile away. So not far. And I'm rolling it up and I'm not being careful because I think it's dead. That thing bit me. Oh, I get back up there. It slid against my post and the carter key or the wire that was in that post, was hitting that live part of that zammer handle. I was not impressed then. Yeah, good night. You're having to do some retraining, but that's going to happen as you're with new technology, like you brought it up.

0:13:49 - Hunter
Yeah so hopefully this second round of training with the collars working goes the way the last three rounds did and yeah, we'll be rocking and rolling that if we have problems over over the spring and summer, it's really not a big deal. But we better have our decks in a row by hunting season or we're going to have some issues. Oh yeah, we got until September to get everything lined out and working good and cull the ones that are not going to work.

0:14:14 - Cal
Oh yeah, so you're still involved with that cow herd up there.

0:14:21 - Hunter
Yes, sir, yeah yes, sir, yeah, yeah, and you know, helping them with their wildlife management stuff and and pretty much managing the that cow herd, with the exception of the day-to-day checking water and mineral and and when and when we move them you know I think you had mentioned before you had some cameras on some things.

0:14:41 - Cal
Being two hours away, are you able to get on camera and see them, or you're using a heat map from the vents?

0:14:49 - Hunter
I assume, yeah, I can see where every individual cow is on the virtual fence and and I can log into the.

If they have the, the cameras on the waters, I can check water, but I don't ever do it because the guy that that look, we lucked out and hired a really good manager to take my place and so he does a good job and he's there as the wildlife guy but he knows a thing or two about a cow they work, so he's pretty handy and I've gotten to know him over the last few months and I trust him, so it's nice to have a good manager there that you can count on, oh yeah. That helps me sleep at night. I don't have to worry about those cows at all. Oh, I'm sure, yeah.

0:15:27 - Cal
Yeah, and you do have that peace of mind that you can get on there and see where they're located and stuff.

0:15:31 - Hunter
Right.

0:15:31 - Cal
That's pretty cool. We're going on a vacation in a couple weeks and, of course, there won't be any problems, but I'm just going to have to hope the cows stay in. Not that they wouldn't. Yeah, having a heat map would be cool.

0:15:45 - Hunter
Oh, yeah, yeah, so, hunter tell us about your new position and what you're doing now. Yes, I'm running Grazing Lands now. Grazing Lands is owned by Soilworks Natural Capital, which is a fund that is investing in regenerative agriculture. It was started by a couple of guys who are kind of experts in building businesses in the software space and they both for different reasons, just found regenerative agriculture and just got passionate about it and went down the rabbit hole that we've all gone down and read all the books and watched all the YouTube videos and they're just convinced that this is the most profitable way to ranch and the most environmentally friendly way to ranch and produces the most nutrient, dense food, and so they are zealots for it.

But they're not ranchers, but what they do well is buy and grow businesses, and so their contribution to regenerative agriculture is to run these businesses really well. So they started acquiring some businesses within the regenerative agriculture space. So they own Pasture Map, they own Grassroots Carbon, they own Powerflex Fence, they own Range Ward, which is they have the razor grazer, and then they own Grazing Lands, which is the operational, the ranching business in the fund. So we right now just have cattle, but you know, any room in it is possible, I guess, for us who knows where it leads, but right now we just cow-calf on all leased land.

And so I'm running that, so left the deer hunting industry behind and doing just what I love. But in Texas getting away from hunting is in big city. Deer hunters is never going to happen. So having that background and knowing how to handle those guys and those relationships and knowing how to graze places where recreation is the priority is going to be valuable for us as we expand. But right now we lease the grazing rights on Pajarito Ranch, which is in Pandora, texas, between Stockdale and Nixon, and, and then the there's other, uh, the, the, the landowner leases the hunting rights out to somebody else, so we shared a ranch with hunters, so it's very similar to where it came from is, except it rains a lot more.

There's cool season grasses I've never seen any cool season grasses before and and which was awesome I had so much fun learning about that this year. But I screwed up like a thousand acres I just totally let go to waste and right now it looks like it's August to me out here, because all those cool season. Annuals have died and the warm seasons are coming, but they're hiding underneath all those dead cool seasons.

And I'm like man if I didn't know what I was doing, we would have been moving a heck of a lot faster. We would have got in here and done something with this cool season of forage. I'm learning a lot, but really excited to be at grazing lands and have the potential to make an impact. Just being in cattle all day, every day, instead of nights and weekends, is awesome for me. But we have a big mission and we want to facilitate regenerative agriculture being the status quo in America, and that's a pretty daunting task because paradigm change.

And. But that's our mission. And so we have three avenues to get there. We were number one, we want to prove it. We're number one, we want to prove it. So we're operating ranches regeneratively at scale, so that we can be a case study and say, look, this is a, this is not 10 acres that you know in our backyard like, oh yeah, we're doing this at scale, this is a real business and we are enjoying profits that are beyond what the industry expects. And this is why it's because of these regenerative practices. And so that's one avenue we want to prove it to people. And then, in order to lease a ranch, it's got to be a minimum size for us, right? Because we want to staff it with a rockstar manager that's paid well and equipped well, and we just can't, we can't afford to do that on a hundred acres if it's not right next to a place we're already leasing.

So what do we do with those places? Because we've had a few people come to us wanting us to lease their 150 acre place, and I love that, I'm honored that they came to us, but I just can't. It's too far away. I can't justify hiring a guy to run 150 acres. So what do we do with those places? Because they're excited about regenerative agriculture and we want to see regenerative agriculture on their place. So that led us to consulting.

So if we can't operate it ourselves, we still want you to have these practices on your place. So if it's not big enough for us to justify staffing with a full-time guy, we're still going to help and we're a for-profit business, so we're not doing it for free, but we don't want to turn anybody away that's fired up about regenerative agriculture. And then the last thing is, if we're successful in that, there's going to be a big need for the genetics that work into that type of management regime. And so we're working on developing those genetics now so that when we do succeed in our mission, we are the source for those regenerative genetics. And I'll stop there because we're going to get into that later.

0:21:16 - Cal
Yeah, we're going to jump into that a little bit later for the overgrazing section. Now, one thing you mentioned there. It's a case study or the guinea pig just to show. I hate to use a guinea pig because lots of ranches are doing this, but you guys are doing it on scale there or at scale. Are you all providing you mentioned consulting are you all providing classes, providing pasture walks, or are you still in the stage of getting the ranch there, and how long have they been doing that?

0:21:52 - Hunter
So they've done a couple of pastor walks, not since I've been here, but just got here. They had Steve Campbell out, which I love. Steve, if you just search Steve Campbell on whatever podcast app you use and just listen to everything every episode he's ever recorded probably listen to him two or three times because he's just dumping knowledge on you nonstop.

So they had him out. That was a cool pasture walk but having done much of that educational stuff, I would love to get that going. They've been leasing this place. They've been leasing Pajarito for four years. They started trying to grass finish and Pajarito is great in theory for grass finishing because it has green grass year round. There's so many cool season grasses there. It's like a 50-50 mix and so as long as it's raining, you have cool, you have green grass year round, which is, in theory, would be great for finishing. But I think what the? I wasn't involved with the business at this time, but I think the problem was long dry periods and when those pulses of moisture come they're great and they grow a lot of grass for cows. But for stock you're trying to get finished on grass. You need that consistency and every day in that dry period if you're not supplementing them, they're just going backwards, especially the ones that are near finish.

You really need that finishing ration and when you go into a drought and you've got a hundred animals that are close to being finished and they just hit the brakes right there. So they just determined this is cow-calf country and so they shifted over into cow-calf and then got hammered with a really bad drought last year. Total rainfall for the year wasn't that bad, but it all came at once and then they had several months of just nothing and it was an exceptionally hot summer last summer. They just got hammered with that heat and just no rain for months there in the summer and so that really hurt them. They had to do some destocking and stuff and now we're finishing up restocking and so far it's been a decent year. I think we're behind on rainfall a little bit, but coming from Cotulla, moving a little, it's like everybody around here is complaining about the drought, but I'm like man, it looks pretty good to me.

0:24:15 - Cal
So it's all perspective and a certain point in there I don't know exactly. I should pull up a map of Texas see exactly where you are. But you go two miles, two miles. Sorry, you go two hours west of me. It starts getting pretty dry there. It's a different world pretty quickly.

0:24:31 - Hunter
Right, yeah, and really, really. This is cow country between Austin and San Antonio and Houston. That is cattle country, and we're grazing cows in goat country down there in Katoowa.

0:24:43 - Cal
Yeah, and so it's a totally different ball game for me now, managing totally different environment, and you mentioned earlier about some cool seasons that maybe could have been managed a little bit better, but you'll get there. Have you found some other challenges in moving to that lot more rainfall area?

0:25:05 - Hunter
Not yet the thing that you never have to worry about foot rot and you almost don't have to worry about insects in Cotulla. When it rains we'll show up, but you go through these long dry periods and a mosquito can't find a place to live there, there's nothing.

And the flies are really not bad when it's hot. I thought about maybe there's some problems that almost everybody has that I've been ranching in the edge of the desert that I haven't had to deal with, but the guys that were before me at grazing lands did a great job of selecting the right cows, and so they are. I've just lucked out. I started with a cow herd that is just really well adapted and they've they've never had any dewormer or any fly treatment or anything like that and they just make a living.

And it was trying to create those cows I imagine would be a nightmare, and getting to start with those kinds of cows that just have that parasite insect resistance built into them is a game changer. So I imagine there would be some if you move. If I brought the cows with me or something, I imagine I would have some trouble. These cows, though they are thrifty, they are tough as nails and, like I said, they came through the drought, raised a calf and got bred last year. It's a pretty harsh condition. So the ones that got to stay, they're some pretty dang good cows.

0:26:24 - Cal
Yeah, isn't that saying you can't move cows south and east? You want to move them west and north, right, yeah, yeah, you want to move them west and north, right, yeah, I know I did get some northern cows down here a couple years ago and I have zero of them still in the herd and it's hard to make a generalization. I've heard that generalization. I can't make it on the small numbers I'm working with, but it did hold true there.

0:26:51 - Hunter
Yeah, to an extent hardy is hardy, but yeah, there is hold true there. Yeah, to an extent Hardy is Hardy, but yeah, there is some stuff there. If that cow family for generations has never had to deal with a parasite load and now all of a sudden there's a huge parasite load, I could see that being a problem. San Pedro Ranch is in Carrizo Springs, which is west of us. When we're in Cotulla I know the manager there.

They're a very low-input beef master operation and follow the Lassiter principles pretty closely and they send a lot of bulls to Florida and this is like very dry South Texas rush country and they send bulls to Florida and have been sending bulls to Florida like by the pot load and they must be working because they're sending them to the same ranches. They keep buying them, yeah, and so those bulls are doing it. They are as low input gets and they do a really good job of not propping anything up and sometimes hardy is hardy, but Right yeah, but so far I've lucked out just by inheriting some a really good hardy cow herd, that's adapted to that environment already.

0:27:59 - Cal
And those lester principles, they're following them closely. They're getting rid of all the lemons they're keeping all the good stuff right. So you mentioned cow calf there. Are you all doing any stockers or is it all cow calf?

0:28:13 - Hunter
Not right now, not right now We've. We were understocked intentionally and that was decision was made before, before I got here, but I was, I would have done the exact same thing. I think that was a great decision. And then those rains came early in the year and so we've been getting back up to normal stocking rate. As the place sits right now, it's probably a 300 cow ranch. There's some opportunity for some brushwork that the landowner and the hunters are all on board with. That can really jump that stocking rate up. It's a pretty brushy place, especially for this area. Um, a lot of pasture in this area, but so, yeah, a lot of pasture in this area, so there's a lot of potential there for us to get that stocking rate up. But I stocked all the way down to 200 cows.

0:29:00 - Cal
Oh yeah.

0:29:00 - Hunter
And so we were significantly understocked. So we're stocking back up. I think our plan, at least for now, is to be slightly understocked on our main cow herd that we're proud of and that we're developing genetics with and then stock around that with whatever the market wants us to stock with. Oh yeah, so we've been. We've been buying some undervalued cows, undervalued from a sell by perspective and um and so, yeah, just, I think it's very valuable to have the core herd be less than your stocking rate or your carrying capacity.

If you're stocked to the gills with cows you love and you're proud of, human nature will not allow you to make the call when you need to make the call. I agree, yeah, and then if you're trying to get to that stocking rate, it's a lot easier to start making exceptions for cows that you have no business making exceptions for. And so by keeping that the main cow herd, our primary enterprise, significantly less than the total stocking rate or carrying capacity for the ranch and then stocking up to carrying capacity with something short-term and something that is undervalued in the market. So that's the plan going forward, at least for now. But I'm known for wadding up a plan and throwing it in the trash.

0:30:15 - Cal
But you've got to make those plans so you have the ability to wad it up and throw it away, right, just that planning is beneficial.

0:30:23 - Hunter
Absolutely Going forward, yeah.

0:30:25 - Cal
Now at the other ranch, you're using virtual fence. Are you using virtual fence here or are you doing some polywire? How are you managing your cows there?

0:30:35 - Hunter
Yeah, poly wire and a lot of it. With the brush we can get some pretty nice densities. On certain pastures. There's some stuff that's open but the majority of the ranch is brushy enough. It's hard to get them at a good stock density because it's just limited by places to run a wire. So we actually just did a pretty big project with a brush cutter on the front of a skid steer, just making lanes to put polywire, and so now we can. Now we can fence a lot more than we were fencing. But yeah, everything's polywire.

What we do, because we're in like we're fencing a little bit bigger areas than other people are, is we we buy the empty reels from range ward and we have a razor grazer that we use. We only have one and we really need four. We're not going to buy four, um, but we buy those empty reels and they hold. They come with, I think, one mile or half a mile of the rope like the bigger stuff on it. We take that off and it'll hold two miles of the PowerFlex nine-wire mixed metal stuff, like we do our poly braid. It'll hold two miles of that. So we typically put like a mile and a half on those big reels and then Rangeward also sells a reel stand.

That works real good. Just pop those reels on there and then unroll, just put in the back of a buggy and drive to unroll it and then step in posts. And I really like those three eights ground rod or not ground rods, those three eights fiberglass rod posts. Oh yeah, um, because it when it starts getting hot and dry and I started getting real angry trying to step in posts and it's a nightmare. When it's wet it's much faster to be able to just loop those pigtails on and step them in and just go. Oh yeah, we've got plenty of those. But man, when it starts getting dry, give me those three eights fiberglass rods and a rubber mallet and I'll go to town and get stuff in a lot faster.

0:32:32 - Cal
I posted this in the group other day. Someone was talking about they sharpen the ends on their O'Brien tread ends. Oh yeah, I'm like I never have to do that. Yeah, and they're like the frozen ground or if it gets super dry, it gets dry here, but it's never too bad. We have frozen ground, but it's never too bad. Never too bad, we have frozen ground, but it's never too bad.

0:32:56 - Hunter
Yeah, I guess that's a humble brag, but it works really good for me, right, yeah? And I look, I think back to like when I first discovered this region stuff and watching Greg Judy videos and he, he'll like, just throw those suckers and stab them in the ground and the emperor will come back by and come behind him and clip the wire on. I'm like, man, you don't know how good you have it. I'm out there with a rubber mallet beating on these things.

0:33:18 - Cal
Oh, yeah, yeah, Now I did. When I first started, I used those 3-8ths fiberglass rods and I'd take. During summer I'd have to pound those in some. I couldn't just push them in enough, right, most of the year they were fine. So yeah, everybody's got their own little nuisance. What's the one deal? What's your unfair advantage? Right, we always have something that's an unfair disadvantage for us as well that we have to work with, but that's okay.

We focus on the advantage. Now. You mentioned you got lots of trees brushed. I know on lease property I have that the place with brush, with honey locusts all over, and I couldn't make a straight line with two posts. You should be able to with two posts. It took a ton more time to put up fences there than it does on my other properties.

0:34:13 - Hunter
Right.

0:34:13 - Cal
Because I can just take off, find me a point and walk to it, which was a huge time, time crunch or time consumer anytime I moved them over there, I had to double my time of putting up fences, even though the fences may have been shorter, but usually a bigger area, because the number of trees, number of rocks, number of cactus to deal with, yeah Right.

0:34:38 - Hunter
Yeah yeah, we do a lot of fencing, we do a lot of fencing. But we've also have a power arm from a range ward and it's a it's got a.

it's got a seven way plug on the end of it and it plugs right into your pickup or your side-by-side at the back and that powers it. And you stick those big reels, range Warp reels on it and just press a button and it reels it up, and so that's really nice. The Cthulhu I was using when we were running Polywire there. I had rigged up a little deal where I could use a drill for those long deals, but I was burning up drills left and right, oh yeah. And so it's really nice to have this power arm to reel in those long stretches and then now that we've done the project, to add those lanes.

Now the program is we run a long stretch and then we can cut off of it with half mile reels. So Gallagher makes those. They're three to one geared reels but they're the mega size or whatever, but they hold a half mile instead of a quarter mile.

0:35:36 - Cal
Oh yeah.

0:35:37 - Hunter
We don't get to run a quarter mile at a time very often. I think we only have two quarter mile reels on the place.

Oh yes, well, most of our stuff is longer than that. But now that we've added those lanes, now we can run a half mile at a time instead of having to run a mile at a time. Now we're cutting, we're able to get a little bit more stock density, and still not anywhere near where I want. But we've got plans to get there with some water infrastructure, some brushwork, and so there's a lot of potential on this place to get. It's a 5,000 acre ranch and this is the standard stocking rate for set stocking. Conventional management is 10 acres per animal unit in this country but we're it's not 5 000 grazeable acres.

There's a creek running through it that is heavily wooded and that's about a thousand acres, and then there's probably 2 000 acres of brush and that grows. The brush grows a little bit of grass, not near as much as you do out in the open pastures, obviously. So, yeah, there's tons of potential here. There's plenty of ground. There's just not enough grazeable acres, but we've got plans. We've got plans to mitigate that, and so we've got a lot of room for growth just on this place, and then, if we can add to it, add other places to it, then we're really cooking.

0:36:54 - Cal
And you'd mentioned earlier, Grazing Lands is actively looking for ranches to lease and manage regeneratively in a sustainable way.

0:37:06 - Hunter
Yeah, it would be. Our long-term goal is to. We want to our number. One thing is, we want to prove it to people. We want to have a place to take ranchers who are considering a change and show them our numbers, show them the ranch, show them the cows and say it's undeniable. Look at it and so. To be able to do that in multiple environments would be great, because everybody's always going to say yeah, but that won't work here.

Yeah, it rains more over there or it doesn't rain as much. It's always a reason why it won't work on my place. Yeah, so that's our goal is to is to apply these regenerative principles at scale on multiple different places and prove it works. And because we believe in.

we believe in, not because, not because we read a couple books, but because we've done it. I made the change in Cotulla. I saw the results. One of the board members he doesn't ranch but he owns a ranch and he's seen it. Those practices work for him on his own property and the founders of Grazing Lands, they saw it work on their own property. So we're going into this not wondering if it's going to work. We know for a fact it's going to work.

We just have to prove it to everybody else and to all the conventional managers, and something that that kind of wears me out in the regenerative community is we approach conventional managers. They're, we demonize them. We talk to them about how their soul is blown away or it's washing away, or you're doing such a terrible job or you're killing your dung beetles. We just beat them up. Tell them they're doing it wrong. You're never going to convince anybody that way. Tell them they're going to make more money.

That's really our goal is to prove that this is the most profitable way to ranch and say hey, you want to make some money? Can we add 150% to your bottom line? Come, let us show you how to do it, and I don't know anybody who wouldn't show up for that. If you start talking to them about soil, microbes and mycorrhizal fungi and dung beetles, their eyes might glaze over, but if you start talking to them about their bank account, I think you got their attention. So let's stop demonizing conventional managers and telling them how terrible they are at what they've given their whole life to, and let's help them make more money. And so that's our approach to it is we're going to go prove it and we're going to document every step of the way and all of our failures and successes and then, when we feel like we've got a pretty dang good case, we will have something to show to people and yeah, like I said, I don't know anybody who wouldn't show up to make more money.

0:39:47 - Cal
But you also touch on that other point that's so important. We demonize those conventional farmers saying you're doing it wrong, we, we don't fully know their context. That's the best they're doing. I spent a number of years in a classroom and you get these teachers who would yell and I'm like don't yell but what I came to realize, that's what they had in their toolbox.

So education for these managers, so they understand some other ways and realize that when it gets too stressful they're going to go back to what they know. We can get them to take those steps and not tell them they're doing everything wrong If someone came and told me I'm doing everything wrong. First off I'd have to admit yeah, you're probably right, but I'm not going to listen. Very good, yeah.

0:40:37 - Hunter
Yeah, your humility is probably why you've been willing to accept a new method. But yeah, I agree, like Dave Pratt is fond of saying everybody's doing the best they can given the situation they're in, the stresses they're feeling or their background. Nobody's trying to screw their place up.

0:40:58 - Cal
Yeah.

0:40:59 - Hunter
And so to to just attack those people. It's not going to get us anywhere. Yes, we're going to, we're going to prove it and then we're going to show it to them and then, all along the way, anybody who is ready to go and fired up about it will help them get started. And I talked to a lady the other day that's just real jazzed up about regenerative agriculture and she's ready to go, she's fired up, she's ready to go buy a bunch of fence and buy a bunch of water line and put it in, but she's like I don't even know where to start.

I believe in this, I know that this, but where the heck do I put the first fence post? And so that's something we've. We have made all those mistakes before, and so there's no reason for her to make them. We can save her a heck of a lot of time. So, yeah, so, while we're proving it, we'll help anybody we can along the way. And yeah, that's it's really fulfilling to me. Like I said, we're not doing it for free, but it's a really fulfilling part of the job for me to see those places, because those small places, those are places that, like that's their pride and joy. They might've worked their whole life to save up a nest egg to buy that place, or that was Granddad's place or something like that. That is their pride and joy, and so it. So when they get fired up and they're convinced and they are ready to rock and roll, those are some fun people to work with. Oh, yeah, I imagine. So that's been really fulfilling.

0:42:30 - Cal
I think, hunter, some exciting things going on there for you at Grazing Lands and excited for your opportunity there and to see how it continues. But it's time for us to transition to our overgrazing section, or the severe grazing section, as we're fond of calling it sometimes. Now and for today, we're going to talk about your genetics program, because you alluded to it a few times that, hey, we've got to get cows that'll work in this environment, that will function here. Can you just take off from there and tell us about what you're doing, your goal with your genetics and what you're using to get there?

0:43:01 - Hunter
Yeah. So the um, the baseline of it all, is something I've heard repeated a lot. It's form follows function, and so we don't. We don't care about horns, we're using all pulled bulls, so I guess that'll take care of itself. But we don't care about horns, we're using all pulled bulls, so I guess that'll take care of itself. But we've got cows with horns, we've got cows of every color. Does she raise a calf, an acceptable calf? Does she breed back on time? Does she stay in condition, and does she do all of that without being propped up? And so that's the basis of it all.

0:43:32 - Cal
And so how we get there? Very much Lassiter's principles.

0:43:34 - Hunter
Right, exactly, I've enjoyed listening to your Lassiter episodes and, yeah, as input costs get out of control, we're pretty convinced that eventually convincing people to come to the regenerative side is not really going to be all that hard. I don't know if that's going to happen in my lifetime, but at some point there's going to be the only way to make money. And we might be there now, honestly, with record high prices and there's people that are still going to lose money in the cattle business. So, as those input costs continue to get out of control, the only way to make money is going to be to pull the rug out from underneath them and see what makes it. Now again, I'm extremely lucky that the guys that came before me did a great job of selecting the right cow and I'm starting from a great base.

The cow herd is probably half beef masters. They were actually bought as heifers off of one ranch and to be in the grass finishing program and they were on the ranch when they decided to go to cow calf and they're ready to breed Like she let's. They're doing pretty good here. Let's turn a bull out on them and they're three-year-olds now, having with their second calf at their side, and they are. They're rock stars. I love them.

And then the rest of them are just. There's blacks and reds and modded faces and all kinds of stuff. It's just what came through. The crucible that was last year on those cows and did well is still there, and what that ended up looking is a lot of different colors, but everything is slick and shiny. Coats, oh yeah, and in really good shape, and small ish frame. There are some a handful of big ones out there still, but pretty much the big frame cows they fell out of the program and medium to small frame cows were just real fertile and stay in good shape. And so now, where do we go from here? I think we're starting from a great place, but so our first round of breeding under my management is going to be a bit of an experiment and I'm real excited to see how it works out. So we have we'll have nine bulls and three of them will be I'm calling them Pharaoh type red Angus.

They actually came from two of two of the three came. One of them is a Pharaoh bull, the other two came from Southern Reds, michael Vance. They look just like a Faro Red Angus bull, they fit right in. And then three Beefmaster bulls from San Pedro Ranch and Carrizo Springs that I talked about. And then three African influenced bulls, and that's our severe grazing topic is those African genetics, and I don't know, have you seen? I don't know if you're in the same Facebook groups I'm in, but it seems like this African stuff is coming into the regenerative space with some fear.

0:46:20 - Cal
You know, a few years ago I couldn't even told you what breeds or what they even meant when they said African genetics, but I'm seeing more and more of it. Alessandro, jim, alessandro, with Machonas, machonas, yes, machonas, yeah, machonas. And then Pharaoh even has some African genetics in some of their composites. So you're seeing a lot more of this. When you think about African genetics, what are you trying to accomplish with them?

0:46:50 - Hunter
The breeds we're using are sanga-type cattle. Okay, sanga-type. Yeah, they're, boss taurus. The breeds that are going to make up these bulls are centipole, tule and mishona. I went to Texas A&M Kingsville and there's a genetics professor there. His name's Stephen Lukefar and Cal. I know you love genetics. You ought to look up Lukefar Ranch and you could make a book out of his website.

0:47:21 - Cal
Oh, yes, I think that name looks very familiar to me. I'll have to look it up. I can't place it right now, but it looks very familiar to me. I'll have to look it up. I can't place it right now, but it looks very familiar to me.

0:47:31 - Hunter
Yeah, so yeah he's. I don't know what his IQ is, but I don't see how he could be he. I think he's blown past genius.

0:47:38 - Cal
I'm almost up to triple digits on IQ. I'm working on it.

0:47:42 - Hunter
So I think I I feel very comfortable saying he's a literal genius, because I think he's well past the threshold, probably the smartest man I ever met. He was my professor for genetics and statistics at Kingsville and so he had two passion projects he's retired now but one was he did a bunch of genetic stuff on rabbits, on meat rabbits, and he went to-.

0:48:07 - Cal
Oh, so he's the one who started TAMAC, the Texas.

0:48:10 - Hunter
A&M. Kingsville line of New Zealand's.

0:48:16 - Cal
And they're very heat tolerant. And then he also developed a composite breed rather than the New Zealand line. Yeah, sorry, I also know too much about meat rabbits Go ahead. Hunter Okay.

0:48:29 - Hunter
So you're filling in some blanks for me. I couldn't have told you what they were called, so I'm glad you knew that. Yeah, so he's just a wonderful man. His whole goal in that was to take those rabbits to third world countries because that's the most efficient protein meat, especially being able to raise in an urban environment really cheaply and efficiently. And so he went to some third world I don't know which ones, but he took rabbits and taught farmers how to raise these rabbits, and so that's a super cool deal there. But then he also had a lease place right outside of town in Kingsville and he developed a cattle breed there and he calls them STAR stars, south Texas, angus Red and oh, okay, so I've heard of stars.

0:49:18 - Cal
I'm familiar with him because of his work with rabbits, because I did have some meat rabbits. Currently I don't. I'm actually looking for some more to mucks. I just need them closer and that's what I call them. T-a-m-u-k.

0:49:32 - Hunter
I'm not sure what everyone else calls them. I have an Okie accent and can't pronounce words, so that's what I call them.

0:49:38 - Cal
But I haven't found any I like real close to me yet, but I'm looking for a few like I need something else. I've heard of the Star Composite.

0:49:52 - Hunter
I didn't realize it was the same gentleman that was involved with the meat rabbits. Yeah, same genius, he and so all of our like all of our problems genetic stuff that we had to work out in class was on his cattle, and so I was pretty familiar with him, and so when we started breeding cows in katula, I started with a star bull there, and I tell you what I'll do. Before this comes out, I'll take some pictures. We have our first calves on the ground out of them and first ones that we're keeping all the way to. We sold some as pairs but, and man, they look good.

They are just they came out of the cow slick, shiny oily coat and just beautiful looking animals. And so I'll put some pictures on our Facebook page.

but oh, okay, on the lean and the cattle page, but so was really happy with the star genetics there. And so we're. There's a ranch that I sourced that bull from that got. They bought him as a yearling from Dr Luke Farr and they're in Cotulla and and so they happen to have. I'm sorry. Let's go back to the stars. South Texas Angus red is made up of Cinnapole, a third Cinnapole, a third Thule and a third red Angus, and the goal was to make a hardy sub breed that will do everything a Boss Indicus cross would do without the Boss Indicus problems and that was his goal.

And these african breeds the cinnapole came from indama, cattle that were developed on the saint croix island, so they came from africa, but then they spent 500 years being developed um at saint croix island. So they washy grass, parasite load, insect resistance, all that stuff. And then theague came from Zimbabwe where there's very similar to the Meshona big rainfall events and wet rainy season, so same stuff with the insect and parasite resistance, but then also long dry periods where they really had to hug the grub and travel a long way to water. And so they had to be able to do both of those things of digest lignified grass and also make use out of washy grass and make a living in a puddle and on the desert. And so they, and also the just the culture of the, all those cattle that became their own breed, were just tribes domesticating the ones that were able to be domesticated.

And the way and the culture of management for generations. There has been a lot of herding During the dry season. They herd them to water and herd them home, and a lot of times they corral them at night to protect them from predators. So they have a strong herd instinct. They stay together on their own really well and they drive really well. They're gentle, as can be, but they understand pressure. They're not. You can't scratch them on the head, but you just give them a little bit of pressure and they just walk off and so they're really docile. So they bring all that boss indica toughness to the table, but just with some really impressive disposition.

And, and so that's what Dr Luke Farr is trying to do with that three breed composite. And so towards the end of his project there he started adding Meshona to it. Which Meshona similar environment as the Thule they were herded. They come from an area where they get all the rain at one time. Get all the rain at one time, and there's also just the culture there. Americans have even poor Americans have money burning in their pocket that they can't wait to use to prop up an animal Like we just all we want to do we just?

we complain about how there's no money in the cattle business, but as soon as we get a little money, we spend it on propping up our animals right.

It's just not an option in Africa. Those tribes were not. They didn't have a feed store down the road to go buy feed. So those animals, just it was. When humans started selecting animals there, it was nature plus one. It was just just given natural selection and nudge, and so it was a positive thing. When humans started in in in the West, we in in America, we've. When humans get involved, it's a disaster.

I'm a little worried about this African stuff becoming popular because it's only a matter of time before somebody starts marketing these African genetics for weaning weight. The first time I see that I know it's over. But luckily, for now at least, the only people who are really using these genetics are regeneratively minded and are probably not propping them up with inputs. So for now anyway, we haven't molested it yet. But so he started adding Meshona to the mix too at the end, and then he ended up selling his herd to a, to a Farrow Cattle Company cooperative producer to further develop that star breed. And I should have looked up the name of that guy. It's on Dr Luke Farr's website. Who the guy who owns those cattle now. But they are going into that, that heat tolerant composite that Pharaoh is selling now.

Oh and so they are part of the Pharaoh program Now, the breed that Dr Luke Farr started, but there were still some and they're out of a star cow, a third Cinnapol, third, they'll summon, they're out of a star cow, a third Cinnapole, third Thule, third Red Angus, ai'd to a Meshona bull. So all three of the bulls that we'll be using are half Meshona. One of them is half Meshona, half Cinnapole and the other two are half Meshona, half star and they're almost all, with the exception of that third Red Angus mother. They're almost all, with the exception of that third red angus mother. They're almost all african genetics and, yeah, so that calf crop is going to be a third african influenced, a third beef master bulls and the third pharaoh type red angus bulls and it'll be a really it'll be really interesting to see the difference there. And then, like I said, form, form follows function, this African stuff. It's interesting, it's different and in theory, but at the end of the day, whatever produces the best calves is what the program is going to be, and so we're going to stumble on some combination of all these genes and if we continue to use good bulls and continue to not prop up the cow herd, 10 years from now we will have something that we're really proud of. And so this little calf crop we're having next year will be a very cool experiment and that'll answer a lot of questions for us. And we're just going to go where it leads us and, to be honest, I hope that when we look at that calf crop we say, holy smokes, look at those African influenced calves. That is the way to go where it leads us. And, to be honest, I hope that when we look at that calf crop we say, holy smokes, look at those African influenced calves. That is the way to go.

We're rocking and rolling but there's been some people concerned with carcass traits. If you go to, there's an American Meshona website and they've done some studies. They've done some and the half bloods seem to do really well, I think the full-bloods they tried to grass, finish them or something. They didn't grade that well, but they had some half-Angus machonas that just absolutely kicked the tail of the full-Angus calves in the feedlot and we're not really feedlot genetics. I think they're just efficient. So I don't know, I think the jury's still out.

There's a lot of people who are who'll give you a lot of negative thoughts on on, on these Michonas or any African stuff really. But what makes the cow-calf guy money is weaning a calf without any inputs. It's not. If we have to sacrifice some weaning weight to get breed up and successfully wean calves, that's what's going to make the cow-calf guy money. So I don't know, we'll see.

But yeah, I'm rooting for the African stuff and then maybe it's a cross, maybe it's probably not going to be a herd of nothing but African cattle. It's probably going to be some composite Cause. Think about the hybrid vigor of a composite like a beef master and then a composite like a star where you have those genetic like. That has to be the maximum hybrid vigor that you could possibly produce right there. And yeah, I'm just excited to see it. It's going to be a cool experiment and I think there's obviously the hardiness is cool, but but the, what really excites me about it is just the culture that they come, the management that they come from.

This is not just in granddad's management, this is all the way back to when they were domesticated out of wild cattle and it's been. It's the rug has been. Not they didn't pull the rug out. There never was a rug and they'd never been propped up, and I think that's what draws people to like Corianis and stuff I know you've got some Corianis Is that there's a little bit of that native hardiness left in them. They haven't been totally molested by man's influence and are just strange desire to want to just spend money on cattle, and so that's. There's a lot that excites me about the African genetics, but the number one thing for me is the culture that they were developed in is a culture that produces docility and hardiness and otherwise they just they died. We'll keep some heifers and then and then that'll really start having fun Then we start breeding back those heifers.

0:58:56 - Cal
That's a wonderful and interesting discussion about genetics Hunter and it'll be interesting to see how that program goes, how it evolves, for you Be interested in those updates. However, it is time we transition to our famous four questions, sponsored by Kent Cove Farm Fence. Kent Cove Farm Fence is a proud supporter of the Grazing Grass Podcast and grazers everywhere At Kent Cove Farm Fence they believe there is true value within the community of grazers and land stewards. The results that follow, proper management and monitoring can change the very world around us. That's why Ken Cove is dedicated to providing an ever-expanding line of grazing products to make your chores easier and your land more abundant. Whether you're growing your own food on the homestead or grazing on thousands of acres, Ken Cove has everything you need to do it well, From reels to tumbleweels, polytwine to electric nets, water valves to water troughs, you'll find what you're looking for at Ken Cove.

They carry brands like Speedrite, O'Briens, Kiwi Tech, Strainrite, Jobe and more. Ken Cove is proud to be part of your regentive journey. Call them today or visit KenCovecom. And be sure to follow them on social media and subscribe to the Ken Cove YouTube channel at Ken Cove Farm Fence for helpful how-to videos and new product releases. They're the same four questions we ask of all of our guests. And to get started, Hunter hunter. Our first question what is your favorite grazing grass related book or resource?

1:00:36 - Hunter
last time I said man, cattle and veld and that still is, is a big is it has a big influence on all aspects of management but, and especially the african genetics stuff, because there's a lot in that. He writes a lot about breeding and in the cattle sections. But I'm going to say there's I think I have one for you that nobody said before. Dick Richardson I'm bringing him up because he's had a big influence recently on me and as we developed our grazing plan at Pajarito, around Dick Richardson's grazing strategy and it's grazing strategy and it's really interesting. Gosh, we could do a whole podcast just on this grazing method. But to keep it short, he gives you a system to follow which satisfies the human mind.

We want a prescription, but you can't manage nature with a prescription. But built into his prescription is the adaptability and variability that's required to manage nature well and it's just, it's beautiful. I love it. We're not doing it perfectly because there's just contextual challenges, but we are Dick Richardson adjacent and so he's had. Unfortunately, there's not. He doesn't have a ton of stuff out there, but if you look up Dick Richardson, grazing naturally is what he calls his business On YouTube. There's a couple of YouTube videos. He's a great speaker, he's fun to listen to, he's funny and, yeah, that's look him up. Everybody ought to look him up. He's great.

1:02:05 - Cal
Wonderful. I'm not familiar with Dick Richardson's grazing strategy, so I'll have to look that up and take a gander at it. Hunter, our second question what is your favorite tool for the?

1:02:18 - Hunter
farm here lately at Grazing Lands. It's been a horse and I know that might be uncommon in the regenerative world but we've been calving and trying to move frequently in brushy paddocks and there's a lot of, as I'm sure all your listeners probably know. There's a lot of problems and wrecks that can happen when you're trying to move pears frequently, especially in pastures, that you can't see. You can't just look across and check right, even when you can. Sometimes you have problems and so we've tried to graze a little bit more severely so that when we move them they want to move. That way we can leave a gate open and they can go back to get a calf and they want to get back out of there when they go back to get their cloth and that's helped. But calling them in the front and having a horse in the back is the only reason that we have a herd that's still together and not spread out all over the damn ranch. It's been so valuable and really I think I did it initially just for fun, I just wanted to be horseback and golly, getting those stragglers up, especially with smaller calves that don't really want to get up, getting them up and getting them to the herd and getting them all moved. It saved our bacon this year.

And then also these cows there are. Like I've said multiple times, I really love them. They're really thrifty but they're not super gentle. That's another reason why I'm excited about these docile bulls is to get that maybe in that next cross. They're gentle out in the pasture. You can ride right by them, you can almost touch them, but when you get them in a pen, they're gentle out in the pasture. You can ride right by them, you can almost touch them, but when you get them in a pen they want to trot everywhere with their head up. And we started working them horseback and it just everything got quieter, everything got calmer. They just like to be worked horseback and you get off and start walking around on foot and close quarters with them. It starts to get a little stressful. So yeah, having a horse on the place and getting to do some horseback stuff has really helped us out.

1:04:12 - Cal
Excellent. Now for my cows. Someone showed up on a horse. They'd probably be trotting around with their heads held high. I do enjoy riding a horse, but we sold our horses a few years ago because they weren't providing anything to our bottom line. Because they weren't providing anything to our bottom line, some days I do think maybe I need a horse. Anyway, our third question what would you tell?

1:04:43 - Hunter
someone just getting started. I had a potential intern ask me this question recently and I'll answer it from the perspective of somebody just getting out of school. I think if you're not, when I got out of school I was chomping at the bit to get married and it was the best decision I ever made in my life. But if you're not planning a wedding when you get out of school, then go and travel and work and try to work. Go work at a dairy, go work at a feedlot, go work in the East where it rains a whole bunch and you got fescue problems. And then go work in the West, where it never rains and you're in big country, and try to get as four or five different places in four or five years that are all very different, and at some point during that deal you're going to find something that you say, holy cow, this, I love this and that's, and, and then go do that, but do it before you have kids, Because once you have kids, that that stability is so attractive and you will.

You just won't do it. You just won't go, take risks because you have bigger responsibilities and and so I think, fresh out of whether it's high school or college, I think you can learn more doing that right out of high school than you could, than your friends are learning in college. But yeah, I would say, go do a bunch of internships. Ranches are always hiring and yeah, go travel and go do a lot of different things. So go and go get those experiences and expose yourself and you will learn a ton doing that. I think you'll blow your college education out of the water going and working.

1:06:10 - Cal
Excellent advice. And lastly, Ben, where can others find out more about you?

1:06:15 - Hunter
So we're on all the social Facebook, instagram, tiktok. I am not by nature, a social media type person, but I see the value in it because, again, our mission is to facilitate regenerative agriculture being the status quo, and I can't honestly say that if I'm not trying to get the word out and showing people what we're doing and that stuff is work for me, it requires discipline and I played baseball and I worked my tail off at baseball and I thought that I was disciplined because I worked my tail off, but I love baseball. It didn't require any discipline. I wanted to do it. I don't want to record a TikTok video and post it. That is work, but I'm getting better at it.

And somebody gave me some good advice. A videographer for PowerFlex that came out told me he was like you need to get a TikTok, you need to post every day, and I said every day. And he said it's one minute. Eight-year-olds do it and I thought you're right. So if an eight-year-old can do it, then I can certainly do it. But I'm working on it, I'm getting better at it and it is beneficial. There's been great conversations started because of it and so now that I'm seeing some like results from it and seeing, seeing some reach and stuff. It's um, it's a little bit easier, but it's still. It's just not in my nature, so I'm I'm working on that, so be patient with me. There. We're there Facebook, instagram, tiktok, and then we have a good websitecom. But if you just search grazing lands on any, whatever social media you like to use, you'll find us social media you like to use, you'll find us Wonderful.

1:07:51 - Cal
Hunter, we'll put those links in our show notes. And, hunter, we appreciate you coming on and sharing with us today Awesome, thank you. I really hope you enjoyed today's conversation. I know I did. Thank you for listening and if you found something useful, please share it. Share it on your social media. Tell your friends, get the word out about the podcast. Helps us grow.

If you happen to be a grass farmer and you'd like to share about your journey, go to grazinggrasscom and click on Be Our Guest. Fill out the form and I'll be in touch. We appreciate your support by sharing our episodes and telling your friends about it. You can also support our show by buying our merch. We get a little bit back from that. Another way to support the show is by becoming a Grazing Grass Insider. Grazing Grass Insiders enjoy bonus content, monthly Zooms and discounts. You can visit the website grazinggrasscom, click on support and they'll have the links there. Also, if you haven't left us a review, please do. It really helps us, as people are searching for podcasts and I was just checking them and we do not have very many reviews for 2024. So if you haven't left us a review, please do. Until next time. Keep on grazing grass.

Transcribed by https://podium.page