Regenerative Ag Stories on the Grazing Grass Podcast

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0:00:00 - Cal
Welcome to the Grazing Grass Podcast episode 116.

0:00:05 - August
Keep a very open mind about what's possible and not get caught in the stigma of owning any certain type of cow.

0:00:16 - Cal
You're listening to the Grazing Grass Podcast, sharing information and stories of grass-based livestock production utilizing regenerative practices. I'm your host, cal Hartage. You're growing more than grass. You're growing a healthier ecosystem to help your cattle thrive in their environment. You're growing your livelihood by increasing your carrying capacity and reducing your operating costs. By increasing your carrying capacity and reducing your operating costs, you're growing stronger communities and a legacy to last generations. The grazing management decisions you make today impact everything from the soil beneath your feet to the community all around you. That's why the Noble Research Institute created their Essentials of Regenitive Grazing course to teach ranchers like you easy-to-follow techniques to quickly assess your forage, production and infrastructure capacity in order to begin grazing more efficiently. Together, they can help you grow not only a healthier operation, but a legacy that lasts. Learn more on their website at nobleorg slash grazing. It's n-o-b-l-e dot org forward slash grazing.

On today's show we have August Horstmann of Horstmann Cattle Company. He was on the podcast way back on episode 15, almost three and a half years ago. We caught back up with August and shared what's happened since then and what he's doing now. It's a great episode. Find out how his cattle program's going and what else he's doing on his farm. Before we talk to August, 10 seconds about my farm. Later in the episode we talk about a little bit of a drought. We were getting a little bit dry here, but the rains have came and we are so very happy for that. However, I would like for the tornadoes to stay away. 10 seconds about the podcast. We have some wonderful episodes coming up in the coming weeks. You don't want to miss them. But enough of all that. Let's talk to August. August, we want to welcome you back to the Grazing Grass Podcast. We're excited you're here today.

0:02:41 - August
Thanks for having me back. It's been a minute, how's it been?

0:02:47 - Cal
It's been good. Lots have happened. I figured lots have happened in your world, so it's about time to catch back up and find out what's going on there. So in 21, early 21, January 21, and for listeners who hadn't heard your episode, you were on episode 15 of the Grazing Grass podcast. So first off, I have to say thank you for coming on to a no-name podcast and sharing about your story. I'm still a no-name podcast, but I have a few more listeners now.

0:03:16 - August
That's good. I don't have much of a name either, so we're in it together.

0:03:21 - Cal
There we are. When you were on, before you had gone cold turkey for regentivag, you had stopped what you were doing with your angus and angus cross and started in the south pole journey and time you were getting ready to kev out some of your first 50 south pole cows. And then you also had your pork going on and you had broilers and layers.

0:03:45 - August
Okay, yeah, so that was right before all of it. Death by diversity set in is what it sounds like. We were ramping up production and diversify.

0:04:01 - Cal
So let's just talk a little bit about your cattle. Just get started. You were about to kev out some of those 50% South Poles and have some 75% South Poles on the ground. How did that go? Are you still a fan of South Poles?

0:04:18 - August
Yeah, so I can't remember back then was that 50% coriander or just 50% beef cow? I can't even remember. I would say it was just the they were 50%, I think, Al your black cows.

Yeah, okay, yeah, so we've been building on that. Got all South Pole bulls now and we've been building on that. Still, don't mess with papers papers. Really that's more of a headache, just on my end, I believe. And yeah, so we got those cows. Now they're calving still on the place. Majority of them are. We've called really hard. We went through a d3 drought. It was shaping up this past year and going into that it was cattle prices were coming up and I decided, made the management decision of we're going to have to cull something. But I turned three bulls out for 45 days so I cut my breeding season by 60. I think I cut my breeding season by 60. I think I cut my breeding season by, uh, teen days. So I went from a 60 to a 45 day breeding season. Um, oh yep and and a lot of those cows that I have started with, most of those bred in that, but really trying to push them a lot harder.

I actually got them listed for sale. Now, with the way cattle prices are, we seem to be still trending pretty dry. So I do believe I would move those cows if they would go the right place.

0:06:01 - Cal
We're pretty dry here in northeast Oklahoma place. We're pretty dry here in northeast Oklahoma. We were wet for a while and it was looking pretty good, but spring has turned off dry and it's got me a little concerned. I think we're a D1 right now but the county over is a D2 and we live right in the corner of three counties. I've got land in two of the counties bordered up against each other, so I've got some land in a D2 right now and some land in a D1. Drought which just getting started. We did get rain last night. I don't know if you're getting some rain up your way, but just on that conversation, where are you located?

0:06:41 - August
Yeah, so I'm in Oldsville, Missouri, 60 miles southwest of St Louis, off 44. I'm about 20 miles north of 44 at the Cuba exit. Yeah, the dryness is when it rains. Here we're just getting these wicked storms that just dump tons of rain in a short period of time. We had a couple nice spring rains, but for majority they've just been wicked and we've been getting a lot of wind Kind of trending over the past couple years. Oh yeah, it seems like we're getting a lot more wind and the wind just, I mean, it just really doesn't seem to stop.

0:07:26 - Cal
It always seems like we get a fair amount of wind. Just, I mean, it just really doesn't seem to stop. It always seems like we get a fair amount of wind here, but yeah, it seems like we're getting, I would say the wind intensity. Pressure has increased. I don't know, but just anecdotally, as I think about it, it seems that way.

0:07:40 - August
Yeah, yeah.

0:07:42 - Cal
And we're likewise. We've got I've got a few cows for sale myself, just because I'm like I'm going to have to destock some if we don't get some rain in here and, talking to my dad on his place, we're going to sell some sheep to try and decrease some pressure, what the rains do, and this week we're supposed to get some, so hopefully it'll be much better. Yeah, you mentioned on your cattle earlier. You said Corrientes, or were they black cows? Are you running some Corrientes now?

0:08:11 - August
Yeah, so I think 21,. I started just dabbling in the Corrientes I guess that would have been that fall. I got my first little set and just started experimenting with them. First little set and just started experimenting with them and I actually grew that up some and had I think 60 or so full Corianis and then I had some half blood South Pole Corianis and things like that. And this fall we were really dry, didn't get any hardly any fall rains.

Hay was expensive, hard to come by and I just started selling the stuff people wanted. It's. I can. No one wants a slick black cow because everybody has. Everybody has that idea like when in in the world that I'm in my little small circle, a lot of it is the red, the red cattle they would. I see a lot of people buying papered oh yeah, hairy south poles over a slick-eyed and black cow that's got south pulling. They'll pay more for a one that's got hair right, but for that piece of paper that goes with her and uh.

But so back to the koreanis. So it was something like I could get out of koreanis and I knew roughly how to get back into them and that was the easiest thing to get out of it and get back in my mind. So we sold all the korean cows this fall. Uh, one guy came and got all the cows and funny thing is every cow that calved on my place to my bulls on 20 in the spring of 23. So that means they went through a breeding season, basically a full year, with me. I was a hundred percent on breed up on that cow, on that group of korean cows, in a d3 drought, 45 day breeding season basically.

But I had taken the time. I trained them to polywire, I lined them out, got them grazing, come when I'd call everything like that and I enjoyed that part. I enjoy training cattle to polywire and moving them and stuff. I've got border collies that I train too. That gives those dogs a lot of time when I bring those new cattle in for for a couple of weeks it's like right now. We just got back into Corianni's about oh, it was like the Tuesday before Easter, so it's been a month now and we bought a pot load of 80 heifers out of Texas and most of them never seen hot wire et cetera. I would say all of them. They hadn't seen hot wire and we just started grazing them. So we're going to go back and I'm going to line out this set and then hopefully, whatever breeds will be bred on my papered south pool bulls and I'm gonna plan on moving them this fall on those heifers and getting them in.

0:11:34 - Cal
How'd you break them to polywire we bring?

0:11:37 - August
them in and basically I'm more of a turn out and put back the last time I can keep the cattle pinned up. When you bring a lot of cattle in like that, it seems the quicker you can get them out on grass, the healthier they'll stay. So we brought them in, we put them in a trap for a couple of days that had some grass and we unrolled some hay that allowed us to let them calm down from being on the truck. We gave them new ear tags, stuff like that. We did go ahead and warm these because they were pretty, pretty rough shape. I for the first few days I really was wondering about them, but as their grays were getting them, there seemed to be coming around. But uh, and then we just turn out into like high tensile, uh paddock, bigger paddocks, and we'll start pushing those around and into bigger and bigger paddocks with dogs. And once we have that high tensile down, where the shock? Then we'll start putting poly wire out and stuff like that oh yeah, did you have any jumpers?

no, we got a lot that like want to go under if a fence is high and we're running on one strand, or if you got some of our, you know we have some gates that start at 33 but then diagonal up to a 44 inch wire, hot wire, whatever. We'll see some go under a creek crossing that you know where. We didn't put any drop downs in it. They're smart, they'll go right on, they'll go underneath, stuff like that. Oh yeah, and then we just open open gates and then but that gives my dogs a chance to go out, grab them, bring them to a gate and so they're learning multiple things there. Oh yeah, and so like training dogs, training cattle, all at the same time, and it just just that part of it seems to work. It's the part that I really like. I like, I like handling cattle and I like working dogs, so it's like my favorite things to do.

0:13:50 - Cal
Oh yes, yeah, I'm dealing with much smaller numbers, but I got a few Corriente heifers in and they wanted to go under, but I had one that was hopping over everything. Of course I had a little bit of an issue with my energizer. Right then I got that resolved and now I got it hot enough that she doesn't even get close enough to hop, but she was causing me some fits for a few days.

0:14:16 - August
Yep, yep that I've had just one I mean most of my cows like if they were put they would go over A lot of our fences at 30, 33 inches right. Our top wire is 33. They would be pushed. I mean they're going to jump, but I'd say most the majority of everybody's cows would too.

0:14:39 - Cal
Yeah, If you're providing enough pressure on them and causing and no way to escape yeah.

0:14:44 - August
You can get out of that situation so, yeah, it's just all about getting that, mine, those cows, mines, you know, around that fence, and then they're good now you talked a little bit about using your border collies and your love doing that are you?

0:15:03 - Cal
do you raise some border collies and train them for sale, or do you just have your own that you use?

0:15:09 - August
I've done a couple. So I've sold a couple started dogs, um and but and then I'll have. I have my main dog. She's seven now. I've raised two litters of puppies out of her and I've got a son from her first litter and her daughter from her last litter. She's, I think she's too old to breed. I actually just bought spoke for another dog that I get. I'm not sure when this episode will come out, but I think it's going to be around the 1st of May. I get a. I'll be picking up another. This will be my first paper dog. I am going to go papered on my Border Collies just because I think coming up down the road selling puppies it'll be easier to do that. I didn't have a problem selling out of my last litter, my main dog in the mail we bred her to. He was down from South Missouri, southwest Missouri, and it was a pretty sought-after deal. I mean we sold all the puppies basically before the litter was born, oh yeah.

0:16:25 - Cal
I kick around the idea of getting a border collie. Yeah, from time to time I get pretty weak need and I start looking, I think about it and then I'm like that's a lot of work I'm committing to because they need a lot of attention. And then I've got to train it and I haven't trained a dog, so you know I've I've actually got some books on it because I've thought far enough ahead that I need to read on this to know how to do it. But at the same time I have not taken that step. And listening to when I talk to someone who's got border collies, I'm always like, oh, I need to go get one. I take a step back and I'm like will that cause too much stress to my animals?

0:17:15 - August
Do you find any downsides to working your dogs? No, I personally don't. The weird thing is on what I've noticed. You know a dog with a good down and that's not running around, not barking. I take my dogs with me everywhere. They'll sit on the four-wheeler. Cattle will walk up and sniff on them, they might get their nose snipped at.

But I found that if I can actually settle cattle into a paddock better with dogs, if I move with a dog versus a bunch of other people on four wheelers chasing them or or something like that, I can just move those cattle and handle them so much calmer. It seems and I don't know if I it's just cause I spend a lot of time out with my cows, but I mean. But I mean I have found just sending a dog down a poly wire and bringing a cow back through a gate versus me driving down with a four-wheeler and chasing her back in. It just seems like I get along with. I'll strip graze cattle and my dogs will be right there and there's a difference with working, oh yeah, and there's a difference when we go to work versus if we're just going to go roll up polywire and strip graze and those dogs go right with me.

0:18:34 - Cal
Oh yeah, very good when you trained your dogs is there, and I'm completely talking about something I know nothing about. Like I said, I bought a couple of books but I haven't read very much in them. Is there a certain philosophy you use on training them or how do you go through that process of training your dogs?

0:18:52 - August
I don't know if I'm the best one to be talking to about that. My, my seven-year-old dog was my first dog and luckily she was probably one of the toughest border collies out there, because I started her on pairs at eight months old. Like I did everything wrong with her, oh yeah, but we I mean she gets me out of a lot of jams and she's my go-to dog. We gathered some bulls yesterday and moved them to a new paddock and we had a new bull in there, and when she and he wanted to stand off and fight and kind of show who's boss, and she goes in there, real calm, and she'll just stand there and she'll just one time bite, bite him on the nose and but she doesn't continue to chase, right, it's a bite. He backs off, yeah, and goes with the other bulls and like I didn't teach her that, like she so like I don't, but I put some command with it, like a walk up or a stand, but most of the time I really don't have to see anything if she's watching one and I can overlook her on the like we'll use.

Yesterday, you know, though, the main bulls, they wanted to break to the other side and she was focused on this one. She hit him and then I hit him with, hit the dog with a right command and center to turn those bulls that had tried to walk past her. So like I kind of oversee. But you know, she knows where all my gates are and she knows if I start calling the cows in one one deal and then they with new cattle, when you, when I mix these 80 head of korean cows with my beef cows and you got all these cows and they're stirred, stirred up a little bit and the new cattle are trying to figure out the pecking order and stuff and you're trying to move them, the dog and I start calling.

But the dog needs help. She knows where we're going and how to be, how it needs to be done, and can hold those. So I didn't teach her any of that. Back to your question. I follow Randall Walker with Sata Stock Dogs. I watch his videos. I've been to one of his. He's got really tough dogs and he's like a no-nonsense type guy and I follow his deal. His dogs, his brute dog is the reason that I actually went with border collies and I was fortunate enough to buy a grandson out of brute that he actually got killed.

But I have a great grandson out of the brute dog and then my picking up a puppy that goes back to his litters to this deal, but so I follow a lot of his stuff with sanctioning and how you start them oh yeah, very good.

0:21:57 - Cal
So what I'm hearing a lot is you stay out of the way and let the dog's instincts take over, and you're just there providing some insight.

0:22:04 - August
Yeah, I try to. I mean like, yeah, they know what to do, or like a good one, yeah, but I mean it took a lot. We've had it's not all roses. I mean we've had some issues before Right, but I would say majority of the time I couldn't do what I do without a dog. I guess I could, It'd take a lot more time.

0:22:34 - Cal
Right, and that's something we're all short on this time. The hair sheep are like that for me. I went out the other morning and I have two flocks right now. I have the flock that accidentally lambed and I have the flock that's getting ready to lamb and I keep them separated so I know who's lambed and stuff. And I go out other morning and I had them across a fence from each other but they got together and that's my fault. I shouldn't have had them across the fence to temp them, but I did, and so other morning I got to sort sheep again. So that's one of those. They created a lot more work for me that morning, Wasn't?

a dog, but those hair sheep do that for me when we jump back to. I was listening to your episode earlier, just to refresh my memory. And you were talking about pastured pork at the time and you were using pork to get into some forest areas to work towards silvopasture Yep. How has that process going? Are you still doing it? How is it?

0:23:35 - August
It worked. It worked really well. So, yeah, created that silvopasture template with the pigs. I did have to go through select, cut some trees and then we had to go through with equipment and pile that those trees that we cut, barned them. Then I followed up with bale grazing with cattle, and I never seeded it or anything. And now it's right out my window here and I've got grazing. I can utilize it for grazing. Hogs are really neat.

We're in the process of looking for somebody to hire. We're at the point where we need another person to come on, and it'd be. I personally don't want to do pigs, and it'd be. I personally don't want to do pigs. But with the right person coming on, I would be interested in expanding one or two other enterprises either goats, sheep, pork, broilers or layers or a combination of them for the right person. But yeah, shortly after, I guess in 2021, we wrapped up all the broilers, layers, pork and basically we got death by diversity. 2022 of June of 2022, I was became full-time on the farm, so this year, june, I'll be celebrating or my second year full-time on the farm. So this year, june, I'll be celebrating my second year full-time for myself.

0:25:10 - Cal
Oh yes.

0:25:11 - August
But we strictly are cattle right now. I have a couple layers that I mess around with and one. I traded some chicks for a goat, so I got one goat and I got two sheep. That.

I traded a couple steaks, for that's how diverse I am. I got a horse too, so I've got a bunch of little bitties. I got a bunch of little bitty stuff that takes a lot of time, like with the pigs, broilers, cattle At the time we were spring and fall calving, we were backgrounding, finishing, just we got death by diversity, there's just no question about it. And I sold basically fall herds gone. I just spring calved cows, have a meat business herd of cattle and then I've been trading Corrientes. There's no denying that I like to buy and sell, so I guess that air quotes me as a trader, whatever. But I like putting together Corianis and kind of getting them ready to go on for somebody else to hopefully have success with.

0:26:22 - Cal
Oh, yeah, yeah. So that death by diversification. You just got too many irons in the fire and not enough time, so you had to scale back on those other yeah, you get so many, so much thing going.

0:26:37 - August
You got six pigs, 200 layers, 150 broilers, spring calvingving, fall calving cows, stocker cattle, meat, business cattle, and what ends up happening?

or did for us, and I still had an off-farm job, I was still working 35 plus hours a week for another guy running his 2,500 acres and his 400 cows and then also trying to deliver meat to St Louis and his 400 cows, and and then also trying to deliver meat to st louis, and and you just you can't get, you can't get anything done. You just do chores constantly and you work all the time. Oh yeah, and it's yeah. You start looking at it and you maybe you might each thing might make you a thousand or two thousand dollars. Right, you might net two thousand bucks on some pasture hogs, but if, what would you have been able to do if you could have taken another, like how there's other things that could have been done and you could have made more? Whatever, I mean, if you're going to net $2,000 on a set of hogs but you're running 24 hours a day and really don't factor your labor into your pasture pork.

0:27:53 - Cal
I don't. I totally get that. My wife keeps me in track, otherwise I'd have a little bit of everything and I already have a little bit of everything, so I don't need anything else. But I could easily add stuff. So I don't need anything else, but I could easily add stuff which I don't need to. I totally get that and I think it's important to take that step back and realize, hey, this is adding to the bottom line, but it's not adding enough to make up for the increase in labor and another chore I'm doing and everything. Yeah, yeah.

0:28:25 - August
The opportunity potential like what could we have been doing or could we have maybe made $3,000 if we would have been able to get a new piece of grass fenced or whatever, if we were had water at this point, but you weren't able to get it?

0:28:43 - Cal
done. Yeah, that makes sense to me. Now, one thing you mentioned there was about selling meat to St Louis area. So, let's talk about your direct to consumer. When did you and on the first episode we really didn't talk about that when did you all start selling direct to consumer?

0:29:04 - August
Yeah, so it's just me now. Um, on the farm, it's just me. Let's see 2019, we got to some farmer's markets. Covid shut that all down and right when COVID was, when we had the mandated lockdown, that's when we started delivering meat to st louis and from there we basically delivered. Basically from the lockdowns till now shutdowns, whatever you want to call it I've delivered meat to st louis almost every week.

0:29:38 - Cal
Uh, since then, oh yes do you have a route you go?

0:29:55 - August
do you have? Yeah, how does it work for you delivering it to them from barn to door? We left that. Now we're at shopify. I have a lady her name's jordan. She works with me. She's the main person behind all of the social media posts. I do the stories, but she does a lot of the posts. Emails you, email of, email us. She's responding oh yes, you go online, order cuts, bulk, whatever, and it's all home delivery. So the routes each week vary.

0:30:36 - Cal
Oh yeah, you mentioned there you went from barn to door to Shopify. Why did you make that transition and how has it worked for you?

0:30:45 - August
Well, the barn toador wants me back, so I've been. They've been setting up meetings. I left because the number of clicks it takes to get a sale oh yeah, customers flat out. If they got to click two more times it's, frankly, just a pain in their ass. It doesn't seem like it. But if you've got a, those extra clicks, people get fed up with it. There's a whole nother not, I mean, there's other reasons. Shopify's one of the biggest, if not the biggest, e-commerce businesses. Right, they've got an app. It's super easy to manage inventory. All my orders are at a, are on an app I can click through. I can get it all laid out. Inventory management's all right there. It's super, super easy compared to what it was back then. Honestly, that was a few years ago when we left and honestly it doesn't sound like much has changed.

0:31:50 - Cal
Oh yeah, I see it, but I haven't used it. I'm not at that point, so it's interesting to have that take on it. I have used Shopify a little bit and Etsy about some other stuff, but that's interesting Now, switching gears just a little bit. August you started, or you were inspired. I'm sure you were inspired because I made podcasting look just so glamorous, but you started a podcast.

0:32:19 - August
Yeah, I did. It was. I love listening to podcasts. The idea behind it was long form conversations I would just talk to people I wanted to talk to. I really didn't have I still have a giant list of people I want to talk to. I would talk to people that I would with basically with no notes, right, it was just all off the cuff conversations. I would hear about somebody doing something this way, so then I would just call them with maybe a general topic in mind and then we would go from there and wherever the conversation went, it went and I really enjoyed it. I'm in my podcast studio here, right, I've got the whole deal. We can do four people me and three other guys, three other gals, whatever, we can do a four-way conversation. But it took an entire day. By the time people came down, uh, we toured around, established a relationship, how you know, I would pay attention to how people talked and stuff. We'd go to lunch and then we would record and then by the time you edit something that's a couple hours long, uh it, uh, you know that's where. Uh, you know like I really enjoyed it.

I recorded a few episodes right at the end and uh took that. One was in person with eric fuchs of understanding, and one was from a guy in Texas about Vince, and I recorded those pretty much not the same day but like within a couple of days, and those were my third and fourth episode that had gotten just wiped out Like I couldn't even access them. The chip, whatever, malfunction, yeah. So and it was like that was like the straw that broke the camel's back. You know, it was like man.

I, you know Eric, took the time. We sat down, talked really good conversation and I had the number one and number two people that the first and second time it happened one was Jason Meadows and one was my vet that I used, both super busy guys. Basically, the same thing happened. It was like man, these people are taking their time to do to come and then their stuff gets erased. 'll just feel terrible about it. I better just quit and figure out the issue so it doesn't happen again. And I just, oh yeah, life's happened and uh, oh yeah, just haven't gotten back to it. But I I did thoroughly enjoy the conversation and I was tickled that you had asked me to come back on you mentioned something there.

0:35:35 - Cal
Just the opportunity to talk to everyone through this podcast has just been amazing. So I fully agree with you to the opportunity to talk to people and, like you, coming back on here finding out what's happening since and what I can take away from it for my own operation, I think is wonderful and I think in your format it's a little bit different than my format and I think there's room for all of us, because some people are going to listen to me and say I'm not listening to him anymore and I don't blame them, but there are a few people that listen multiple times to me, so you get that personality of the host, the format of it. There's room for us all here and I was excited for your podcast grazed in America and hopefully the future comes and you can get some time to get back on that.

0:36:27 - August
But I do understand technology issues are a killer yeah, and the time, yeah, and I've thoroughly enjoyed yours. One of my favorite episodes is with Jennifer and Luis Hernandez and, uh, you know oh, yeah, and there, man. I met them at a joel salatin event a couple years ago and then we stay in contact and they're awesome people, so so fun to talk to lewis they are and they're always doing something.

0:37:02 - Cal
I have not made it down there or made it to the farmer's market where they're selling, and I keep planning not to, but they are always busy doing stuff and there's so much they're doing that I look and think, oh, that's something I could try. Yeah, speaking to the problems, I just recorded an episode the other day that it didn't keep any of it. Actually, we're going to record an in-person episode pretty soon, but they're doing some similar stuff.

0:37:31 - August
Yeah, the other thing you started that grazed in america podcast, but you also started a facebook group, grazed in america yeah, so I've dealt with the facebook group so I've got, yeah, I have grazed in america on facebook, grazed in america on instagram those are more for the podcast and then I have grazed in america livestock and basically it was just the a spot where people could come and not for sale their animals but rehoming, you know, their animals and this continue it to grow, to be a part of the growth of it, because I truly 110% believe in it.

I believe about nutrient density, quality of the meat, family farm life, that work-life balance, the whole thing about it. 110% believe it, live it every day foods, medicine, that whole deal and so just want to be a part of helping that grow and share information and provide an area for people that share that same vision, same mission, where they can go and find this stock. And so that's the idea behind it. As just so we need something for our meat business, let's go put it here and it's I don't, it's organically grown to 1700 members so far.

0:39:20 - Cal
I believe oh, yeah, very good yeah, just a spot.

0:39:24 - August
You can put your sheep or your lambs. Or you said you got some, you're rehoming some cows, your cows are looking for a new pasture. You can put them on there anymore I don't. I used to take the time people would put for sale and I would take the time and message this is a for set, not a for sale, just change for sale to rehome or looking for, etc. Now I I don't really have the time to do that and just because then some people are like let's me do it here and then. So then you get like in this, beat this back and forth with somebody on the rules and I'm like it's just for Facebook, don't ruin it for the rest of us.

So now I don't even I, just I have to scan every post now, and now I just delete the ones that say for sale. I don't even take time to message back, because it's just if you don't know the rules of Facebook by now.

0:40:21 - Cal
I don't Right and you get into. They want to debate it with you and you're like it's not a debate. I don't have a choice in this. I want the group to continue. We can't do it. Yeah, and that admin side of that it's like the podcast. The admin side of the Facebook group takes up a little bit more time than you ever anticipated when you started.

0:40:44 - August
Yeah, yeah. And like I'm approving people to join because there's so many of those groups that have those spam accounts that post just bad stuff. So one thing I do is I go through and approve people now because I want to make sure we're keeping it relatable, right.

0:41:08 - Cal
Yeah, yeah. Now, I completely agree with that. And one thing I found with Facebook the Facebook groups are my favorite part of Facebook. Now.

0:41:18 - August
That's why.

0:41:19 - Cal
I get on. There is the groups that I'm part of to find out information. When we first started it was about family and then everyone and their dog wanted to be your friend and then it just all got lost in there and it's and really my family, the people, I guess my extended family. I see some updates from them that I may not hear otherwise. But really the Facebook groups are why I'm still on Facebook.

0:41:46 - August
Yep, a hundred percent, I think. Last time I looked I was like on 110 groups. All I see is groups, uh, stuff, just the sheer amount of information or certain things, people looking for meat or restaurants or whatever. You see so many things. People look wanting for dogs. I don't know how many border collie pages I'm on or how many St Louis looking for groups I'm a part of Just you know, it's a giant tool. I mean, like people say you're always on your phone, right, I get that all the time. But it's like. It's not like I'm looking at other people, I'm just constantly scrolling through 100 plus groups, with some of those groups get 20, 30 posts a day on commenting and shit and just hoping one hits just any little bit of downtime plus.

0:42:46 - Cal
It might be a sort of an addiction yeah, I think there's a certain amount valid to that, because I catch myself scrolling when I should be doing something else, or just I just pick it up, I'm scrolling. I'm like, why am I doing that?

0:43:01 - August
I don't need to do that yeah, like in the middle of a field.

0:43:03 - Cal
we won't go on that addiction very much further. Yeah, I've. Yeah, that's the reason I try and keep it in my pocket and the earbud in so I'm listening to something or if I'm choosing not to listen, but try and keep the phone out of my hand during those times.

0:43:19 - August
Yup, yup, I get no notifications from any social media, so the only thing if you need me, text or call. That's the only way. If you need an immediate something. I don't respond to Instagram messages because it doesn't. I will respond to them, but it's when I see them, because I've opened my phone.

0:43:43 - Cal
Yeah yeah, which makes sense, because you've got to stop all this incoming noise, because there's just so much incoming noise. Yeah yeah, august really enjoyed catching up with you, like we said at the beginning, three and a half years since you were on the podcast, so finding out what you've done since then and where you're going. One thing you did you scaled back on everything and, before we move to the famous four questions, you had mentioned you would be open to adding another species in. But if I understood you, that's really kind of you hire someone. If they have an interest in something, you may be willing to add that species back. Or is there anything you want to add back? For sure?

0:44:31 - August
yeah, so we scaled back on all the the other enterprises to basically zero right now, but then scaled up on cows and our meat business side. Yeah, currently I would say we're I don't want to put a number with how many acres is fenced, but currently we are fencing to bring in. Oh yeah, and with cattle prices as high as they are, you there's a, you can, if you sell your cows. There's a I don't, there's a tax kind of deferral that the gain on the livestock that can be deferred for X amount of years to buy back in. We're looking at different options there. But yeah, for the right person, the right fit for somebody to bring in sheep, not bring in, we go out and buy them, but if to to definitely we have the room to add something, sheep or goats preferably.

0:45:41 - Cal
But yeah, comes with a house and everything for the right person there we go, yeah, yeah, get the word out, maybe you can find that person that'll yeah, hopefully a listener right for you like learning about grazing.

0:45:58 - August
They're on the right path exactly, yeah, august.

0:46:03 - Cal
it is time for our famous four questions and we're going to ask them again, even though you answered them on episode 15. One difference now in the questions they are sponsored by Ken Cove Farm Fence. Ken Cove Farm Fence is a proud supporter of the Grazing Grass Podcast and grazers everywhere. At Ken Cove Farm Fence. They believe there's true value within the community of grazers and land stewards. The results that follow, proper management and monitoring, can change the very world around us. That's why Ken Cove is dedicated to providing an ever-expanding line of grazing products to make your chores easier and your land more abundant.

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0:47:30 - August
And I did not listen to the re-listen to it, so I don't remember what I answered, so we'll see what happens.

0:47:38 - Cal
I I did listen, so I'm curious to see what all you say and I. I have part of those answers in my mind, so we'll see what you go with. Okay, first question what is your favorite grazing grass related book or resource? Man?

0:47:52 - August
a good one. I've been doing a lot of audio books and podcasts still grazing grass podcast, working cows, herd quitter and I'm still pretty much involved with understanding ag and going to those schools and free events and stuff that they host. Off the top of my head, I'm in the process of listening to Will Harris's book, which is very good oh yeah, read by him.

0:48:24 - Cal
So oh, even better. I have it on my shelf, but I haven't read it yet. Maybe I should get the audio version and listen to him.

0:48:32 - August
Read by him. It's a pretty good listen. A bold return to giving a damn.

0:48:38 - Cal
Yeah, and I'm always a fan when the author reads a book. I feel like it just adds so much to it. Excellent resources there. Just to tell you what you answered before, you had talked about Greg Judy's books and you had talked about YouTube and Gabe Brown and Greg Judy and Alan Williams and listening to them.

0:49:02 - August
Okay, yeah, so it's changed. I spend very little time on YouTube.

0:49:08 - Cal
I find this is a tangent. I may cut it out. I find it's very interesting the process or learning cycle a person goes through on gathering information and gaining information and the different stages in it. With YouTube freely available, everybody just goes to that and you can get so much information there. But at a certain point you want a little bit deeper level or a higher level of knowledge, whichever way you want to go. So then you're gravitating to some audio books or books or some courses or conferences, stuff to go to, like that. I think that process is really interesting and I've seen it in my own life on different things. I learned back before YouTube I'd be all about a certain set of magazines. I'd read them every month, but then I hit a certain point in my knowledge, my focus changed. So I think that's always really interesting.

0:50:05 - August
Yeah, I noticed that with myself as well. I, like you said, started with YouTube. Then I got really into podcasts, listening to all of them. Now I'm more pick and choose. Episodes I want to listen to on the podcast side of things Focus a lot on audio books and been doing a lot more of the business books, but still really big and focused on going to the schools. I budget closer now to three to $5,000 a year just for continuing education and getting out there and networking and things like that. And then when I did the podcast that was learned so much from the people.

0:50:52 - Cal
Oh yeah, opportunity to talk to people in the trenches and find out what's going on, and the experts. It's a wonderful resource as a host of a podcast to be able to talk to these people.

0:51:02 - August
Yeah, yeah, talk to people way smarter than me.

0:51:07 - Cal
Yeah, that's what I try and do Talk to people, people smarter than me. I find the bar is set pretty low with me, but it's working out. Our second question what is your favorite tool for the farm?

0:51:19 - August
well, I'm still pretty partial to my four-wheeler I. I would say that's probably what I answered. I don't know if that is, but my four-wheeler dogs and polywire and stuff, polywire and step-ins.

0:51:37 - Cal
That's basically the answer you gave before. Start with your four-wheeler. Include your tools on your four-wheeler and your dog. That's pretty close there. For question three what would you tell someone just getting started? That's a good question.

0:51:51 - August
I would learn, find a mentor and start slow. I would look for, keep a very open mind about what's possible and not get caught in the stigma of owning any certain type of cow. Let's say we'll use cows, for example, because that's what I love, but look more for undervalued and how to add value, versus going with any specific breed or stuff like that kind of more the buy, buy the undervalued cow. At the time there's Wally Olson, doug Ferguson, understanding Ag started to put some of these marketing schools out. Just focus on that and match the livestock with your environment.

0:52:42 - Cal
Yeah, I think all that's great advice and Wally and Doug's school are both schools I'd like to attend. Matching your livestock to the environment that is huge, I think, and when I think about that, the people that come to mind are the people that are like I've got five acres, I've got 10 acres, I want to buy a few cows. And maybe in that situation we should be looking at small ruminants or some other species.

0:53:09 - August
Yeah, or you know, I've got just bought this farm and I've been watching these videos and we're going to buy super expensive papered South Pole cattle. Maybe, you know, I don't know, there's probably better buys currently and breeding up, or maybe it is buy the better. If you're in that period of your life and maybe more retired age and stuff, have the income or the disposable income or whatever to purchase South Poles or papered Angus, whatever you know, do so there's so many variables in there, yeah, so many learn yeah and august.

0:53:56 - Cal
Lastly, where can others find out more about you?

0:53:59 - August
I'm on uh social media forstman cattle co grazed in america, and then august horstman that's h-o-R-S-T-M-A-N. On Facebook and Instagram. My website's wwwhorstman H-O-R-S-T-M-A-N, cattlecocom, and phone number 314-322-1076. That's probably that is the best way if you want to get a hold of me. Call or text. If you don't get me, my phone rings constantly. So just feel free to shoot me a text if you don't get me and we can talk. So love helping people, love sharing my thoughts on what I've seen and learned. Every place is different, but my experiences I like, like I said, really passionate about the regenerative farm movement. Nutrient density.

0:55:06 - Cal
August. We appreciate you coming on and sharing that update with us today yeah, no thanks for having me.

0:55:13 - August
It's been fun. It's been fun kind of getting back into the podcast again. It's been a while since I've done one or been on one and, uh, it's been enjoyable. Maybe I need to get mine fired back up sooner than I thought oh, I think do.

0:55:30 - Cal
But I fully get about irons in the fire and the amount of time it takes. It's not you record and you publish it all in just a moment. Yeah, it takes a little bit Too many irons. Yeah, yes.

0:55:44 - August
Yeah.

0:55:44 - Cal
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Transcribed by https://podium.page